JBM37404 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Following a recent decision to head into the world of N gauge I have set my sights on a model of what Birkenhead Monks ferry may had looked like if it had not been closed.... Closure happened in the Victorian age but the railway continued to serve it until the 1960s as a freight facility for coal to River Mersey tugs. I am thinking that its survived as Cammell Lairds Shipyard being next door has a requirement for a nearby station... A small Wagon Shop and loading by served by a daily trip working from Bidston could generate freight interest. Merseyrail service to Rock ferry as the platforms would be electrified and DMUs to Chester/Helsby. A daily Paddington train runs as a remnant of GWR days and Parcels ops could run daily. Modellers licence in full flow here. The Mersey and Cammell Lairds will provide a backdrop. Will post updates when further developments occur.. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PjKing1 Posted July 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2014 Hi John Sounds interesting, looking forward to more updates! Cheers, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 A very interesting location Monks Ferry have often thought of basing a layout on this location myself. A good compact layout serviced by trains emerging from a tunnel beneath Birkenhead . I had ideas for the Cheshire Lines company gaining running powers over the Birkenhead route to Chester myself but in an earlier time frame Will follow this thread with interest. Good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBM37404 Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 It fits the emerging from tunnel quite well! Having looked at the track plans I can find on the internet it can be more or less as it was barring the turntable which would have gone by the era I model. Part of me wants an excuse to have some 507s and some more obscure units like 104s which ran off Chester at the time. Also the quality of RTR such as the 108 is great. I have an 03 which can be the shunter too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 19, 2014 I know it's only mythical but your freight service would most likely be from Ellesmere Port as that became the freight hub (loose term) for the area many years ago. The real MF had no signalling and was little more than a siding from Blackpool Street so you will need to consider adding signalling, which could be colour light controlled from Sandhills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBM37404 Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 I know it's only mythical but your freight service would most likely be from Ellesmere Port as that became the freight hub (loose term) for the area many years ago. The real MF had no signalling and was little more than a siding from Blackpool Street so you will need to consider adding signalling, which could be colour light controlled from Sandhills. In 1990 Sandhills was but an idea, Freight ran to Birkenhead still until 1989 crewed at that time by Ellesmere Port guys. (ex Mollington street) looking forward to the farish polybulks as these will fit the area well. The station to keep it interesting will have a decent service level using modellers licence but will fit into an 8 by 2 space including fiddle space by the looks of it. Will most likely go for Colour lights though I think. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 19, 2014 In 1990 Sandhills was but an idea, Freight ran to Birkenhead still until 1989 crewed at that time by Ellesmere Port guys. (ex Mollington street) looking forward to the farish polybulks as these will fit the area well. The station to keep it interesting will have a decent service level using modellers licence but will fit into an 8 by 2 space including fiddle space by the looks of it. Will most likely go for Colour lights though I think. John Sandhills was a lot more than an idea in 1990 but that aside Rock Ferry already had a panel (from 1985) and had already seen off Port Sunlight Sidings (1986), it would likely be the controlling box, so aside from RF or ML numbers there is little difference in the signalling. 1993 saw the last known freight to Birkenhead, HEAs to North. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 19, 2014 MF - 1946 (You need to register to zoom in) http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/eaw000411 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Another follower here!! and this is right on my door step too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBM37404 Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 MF - 1946 (You need to register to zoom in) http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/eaw000411 Looking forward to the challenges ahead! That pic shows Woodside as,well which I considered but don't quite have the space for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 MF - 1946 (You need to register to zoom in) http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/eaw000411 I didn't know about that, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I was, as a young teenager, the lucky recipient of a school pal's dad's RM and other magazines, when he passed away. There were probably a couple of hundred mags going back to the early sixties, maybe earlier. In one of these, I recall a 4mm (probably OO) layout in which the section from around Rock Ferry to the Woodside tunnel was modelled - lots of green locos and chocolate and cream coaches taking this Birkenhead lad back to an era 20 or 30 years before I was born. Four track main line, big roundy-roundy from memory. Lairds (worked there as an undergraduate) and the river as a backdrop. Quite inspirational, but way beyond my abilities and purse as a teenager making a of my first few white metal kits... Maybe you could get a copy from Peco - might be worth a look? Good luck with your project!!! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBM37404 Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 I was, as a young teenager, the lucky recipient of a school pal's dad's RM and other magazines, when he passed away. There were probably a couple of hundred mags going back to the early sixties, maybe earlier. In one of these, I recall a 4mm (probably OO) layout in which the section from around Rock Ferry to the Woodside tunnel was modelled - lots of green locos and chocolate and cream coaches taking this Birkenhead lad back to an era 20 or 30 years before I was born. Four track main line, big roundy-roundy from memory. Lairds (worked there as an undergraduate) and the river as a backdrop. Quite inspirational, but way beyond my abilities and purse as a teenager making a ###### of my first few white metal kits... Maybe you could get a copy from Peco - might be worth a look? Good luck with your project!!! Simon Might have poke around for the edition. Got a few old ones knocking about. Baseboards are with me now so that's the next step done. Will go DCC as I am a fan of it but not gong down the sound road for budget reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 There was one article in the early to mid 1960's, I think, that featured a layout based on the Birkenhead Joint lines. The main station, called Chester,was modelled on Newbury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 It's in the October 1963 issue, and won the 1963 RM Cup http://www.ebay.com/itm/Railway-Modeller-October-1963-Volume-14-Number-156-includes-free-booklet-/161222777831 Unfortunately not available on this site https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22C.J.%20Freezer%20%28%20ed%20%29%22 HTH Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBM37404 Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Taste of things to come... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
croydon junction Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 can an 03 haul that much? It must be very strong! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 can an 03 haul that much? It must be very strong! On some Saturday mornings in 1984/5ish, when MGR coal trains were running from Bidston Dock to Fidlers Ferry, a class 03 would bring up a 32 wagon train of empties from Duke St sidings in Birkenhead to Bidston Dock. When clearing the signals at Bidston East Jcn I had a choice. I could stop the train at the signal protecting the electric lines, then clear the signal which would mean the loco had a job to restart the train or I could, when seeing it coming past Birkenhead North No2, clear the signals to give it a run; either way at least one train on the electric lines was going to be delayed, it was a matter of deciding which one! The train would take a good 5 minutes or so to clear the junction whatever I decided and then about another 5 minutes to clear Seacombe Jcn (normally 1 minute for a passenger train). Photo taken from Seacombe Jcn entering Bidston Dock sidings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBM37404 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 It's getting the air up that took a while 03s could move enough to keep a mainline career going. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBM37404 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 can an 03 haul that much? It must be very strong! Joys of N! Even a speedlink set like this looks long. I will have room for a 7 plus 2 HST set and a 6 car Merseyrail set with ease. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 The very first locomotive I ever saw was a blue 03 hauling a train backwards across Duke Street and behind the wall in the early 1970s, it's what got me into all this! I grew up in Claughton - I remember regularly going across the Penny Bridge and past the Mobil oil depot, and I remember locos shunting wagons around Duke St, and down the Wallasey side to Spillers, but if it was an 03 or something else, I can't say. I don't think they were blue. Black with wasp stripes, maybe 1963? I have hazy memories of steam (damn shame, I asked my dad why we never went to the shed, and he said "it didn't seem very important" - Ho hum) and well remember double headed Summers ore trains along the Fender even before the motorway was built Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Perhaps it was one of these http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8044/8420589553_b22c78cc2a.jpg Really don't remember Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinklein Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 theres a few pics of birkenhead here, including your shunter pic: http://www.flickriver.com/groups/1068263@N25/pool/interesting/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Kevin thanks for that - the 28xx on vans coming across the bridge, probably 4 Bridges, back of Canning St - just perfect! cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBM37404 Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 theres a few pics of birkenhead here, including your shunter pic: http://www.flickriver.com/groups/1068263@N25/pool/interesting/ Lots of great stuff there, As a youngster we used to get the Seacombe ferry over from Liverpool and cycle through the docklands with the rail system ever present. All of a sudden it had gone which I now know was around 1989 and some earlier. My layout stretches things to 1990 presuming that the docks still sees traffic. Monks Ferry will have become a landing stage for Irish boats hence the traffic quantity I can run and a wagon workshop meaning any wagons that ran in the area can be seen. Licence being used to full effect but not completely impossible as a way events could have gone as now the Irish boats go from the Wirral from an area that once was well rail connected. Indeed the Rock Ferry to Birkenhead North Docks line has not been built on at all to my knowledge and could come back with a few quid..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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