BITTON

[Andrew P]

What I was meaning was, how often would a loco need to cross from the down to the up line. For such a small yard, there would be no need to run round as northbound pickup goods would work the yard with the sidings to their operational orientation and southbound likewise. In what circumstances would, say, a northbound freight work the southbound sidings and therefore have to run round?

 

Edited to say; southbound pickup goods would use the turnout at the station end of the yard.

Jason several trains a day came up from Bath, backed from the up line back into the yard, shunted, picked up the loaded Fruit train to take back to Bath, similar things happened with the Flowers for Bristol with trains coming from Bristol and returning later in the day.

 

Also trains from Derby stopped there and returned later.

 

Bodge.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Andrew P

[Andrew P]

Thinking about it a bit more, how often would the crossover be used? I'm not suggesting to leave it out but in operational terms, it's surplus to requirements for 99% of the time

In actual fact Jason that's why I chose the location.

 

Bodge

[Andrew P]

It provides the only access between the yard and the up line and the only means of crossing from one running line to the other.

 

If a down train wants to run round in the yard I suspect the only way that is allowed prototypically is for the loco to leave the yard at the down end, run wrong road in the back along the down line, cross to the up line and then reverse back into the yard. I doubt locos would be allowed to run onto the down line on the up side of the crossover. There's no other way of regaining the yard.

Your right Ray, several trains a week did just that from both the North and South, collecting Flowers, Fruit and Veg, and Hides for the Paper Mills.

 

Bodge

[67A]

Hi Andy,

 

Planning issues eh! It happens in the model world as well as the real world it seems. However now I know why I could not draw the slips on Dent with Templot. As Jason points out - you can't. Probably lost a week trying!

 

I ended up drawing diamond crossings and it was just a case of 'winging it - twice'! Both of mine were on a slight curve also. Okay I realise they may not be perfect as I do have a few problems to iron out but as it was my very first time (that takes me back) handbuilding track I don't think I did too bad.

 

Your operational interest will easily be maintained reading through those workings you know about and no doubt those yet to come! The research is a really interesting and challenging aspect of building a layout based upon a real location I'm sure will agree.

 

Any grass yet? Surely it must be growing through the concrete as its been down ages now! I would say 'get your finger out' but you were even too slow to add a fingerprint to the concrete! Tut tut.     

[Alister_G]

It provides the only access between the yard and the up line and the only means of crossing from one running line to the other.

 

If a down train wants to run round in the yard I suspect the only way that is allowed prototypically is for the loco to leave the yard at the down end, run wrong road in the back along the down line, cross to the up line and then reverse back into the yard. I doubt locos would be allowed to run onto the down line on the up side of the crossover. There's no other way of regaining the yard.

 

 

What I was meaning was, how often would a loco need to cross from the down to the up line. For such a small yard, there would be no need to run round as northbound pickup goods would work the yard with the sidings to their operational orientation and southbound likewise. In what circumstances would, say, a northbound freight work the southbound sidings and therefore have to run round?

 

Edited to say; southbound pickup goods would use the turnout at the station end of the yard.

 

 

In terms of both track layout, and working, it sounds very similar to Bakewell (not suprising, I suppose as they are both Midland in origin) but Bakewell not only had regular goods traffic which stopped and then returned as Ray suggests, it also had a number of passenger services that both terminated and started there.

 

For instance, the Derby to Bakewell all-stations ran regularly through the day, with the first and last workings being given the unnofficial name of the "Joe Wright" after the guard who worked on it for 30 years. The passenger stock was stabled in Bakewell goods loop overnight.

 

In the other direction, there were Buxton to Bakewell services at regular intervals, which eventually became some of the first DMU workings.

 

So the crossover and slip between Up and Down lines would have been in regular use throughout the day, both for goods and passenger workings.

 

I don't know if Bitton had similar passenger traffic, but what Ray describes about shunting goods using the down line as a run round loop was definitely common practice.

 

Al.

[Andrew P]

Hi Andy,

 

Planning issues eh! It happens in the model world as well as the real world it seems. However now I know why I could not draw the slips on Dent with Templot. As Jason points out - you can't. Probably lost a week trying!

 

I ended up drawing diamond crossings and it was just a case of 'winging it - twice'! Both of mine were on a slight curve also. Okay I realise they may not be perfect as I do have a few problems to iron out but as it was my very first time (that takes me back) handbuilding track I don't think I did too bad.

 

Your operational interest will easily be maintained reading through those workings you know about and no doubt those yet to come! The research is a really interesting and challenging aspect of building a layout based upon a real location I'm sure will agree.

 

Any grass yet? Surely it must be growing through the concrete as its been down ages now! I would say 'get your finger out' but you were even too slow to add a fingerprint to the concrete! Tut tut.     

Morning Mike, When I started out on this project it was just a case of; I can make a similar Station to that and the goods yard is where I want it, directly in front of me.

Now after pages and posts of research I'm finding that not only can I build the Station almost to scale but more importantly have prototypical running that I never really had in a Model Railway Layout before.

The more I research the daily workings and try to get an idea of life on the line the more I want it to become part of the History of the line.

There's still loads of research to do but every day I seem to un earth more, just fascinating.

 

Bodge.

 

EDIT = No grass yet, hahhaha

Edited September 11, 2014 by Andrew P

[Andrew P]

In terms of both track layout, and working, it sounds very similar to Bakewell (not suprising, I suppose as they are both Midland in origin) but Bakewell not only had regular goods traffic which stopped and then returned as Ray suggests, it also had a number of passenger services that both terminated and started there.

 

For instance, the Derby to Bakewell all-stations ran regularly through the day, with the first and last workings being given the unnofficial name of the "Joe Wright" after the guard who worked on it for 30 years. The passenger stock was stabled in Bakewell goods loop overnight.

 

In the other direction, there were Buxton to Bakewell services at regular intervals, which eventually became some of the first DMU workings.

 

So the crossover and slip between Up and Down lines would have been in regular use throughout the day, both for goods and passenger workings.

 

I don't know if Bitton had similar passenger traffic, but what Ray describes about shunting goods using the down line as a run round loop was definitely common practice.

 

Al.

Morning Al, I'm not sure about Bitton's local passenger workings yet, I know there is a pic I posted some pages back of a Ex GWR Railcar at Bitton, and I do believe there were local services from Gloucester but I would imagine they would have terminated at Bath.

 

As I said a couple of post back, there was a Daily delivery of Flowers to Bristol, Fruit and Veg to Bath, and Hide loaded and delivered as well. So one would assume that to take something out, empties must come in for the following day. 

 

Add to that the coal working from I think it was the North, and there is even more Goods Shunting around the Yard.

 

In the book it says about North / Up bound Goods for the Yard getting permission from the Box to pass the Up Signal, stop, and reverse back into the Loop. I think It then says the Loco comes off to run around and Shunt, but I will need to re read that bit.

 

It does however say that the two Outer Home Signals would be set to Danger whilst the Yard was being Shunted, however there is a paragraph that says when the Down / South bound Loop is being used for Shunting / running around the train, then the Guard had to be careful of passing Up trains.

 

As you say, all virtually the same as your Bakewell, (another must see Layout in this section) being standard Midland Railway practice.

 

Bodge.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Andrew P

[Donw]

Wow I do seem to have started something.

Firstly However you plan to operate the layout the single slip crossover/yard entry is iconic of the Midland to leave it out would lose the flavour of the place.

 

Secondly it is needed for an up goods to shunt the yard. The train arrives and stops in the platform. Backs into the goods loop. Loco uncouples and runs forward into the station then back along the up line over the slip road onto the down. Finally back through the straight road of the slip into the loop and the rear of the train in a position to shunt. It will then reverse the process to gain the front of the train.

 

A down goods would have an easier time the train stops clear of the turnout and then backs through the straight road of the slip into the goods loop the loco is the right end to shunt. Howver THIS is the bit that was worring me. Backing a goods train through a curve below 24inch radius could be a problem with three link couplings. Even if just a dropping off move. The train will stop opposite the loop the loco pulls of a cut of wagons then backs them through the curved turout.

 

The solutions are either increase the mainline radius through the turnout or increase the crossing angle. IN templot if you create a curved turout set the crossing which I did to 1:6 set the switch to B then F6 will adjust the curved radius  with a box telling  you the radius of the main. However the other box which give turout info shows the diverging radius minimum which will change as you adjust the main. A bit of play with adjusting the curve and the crossing should achieve a sensible compromise. The slip only needs to suit the turnout the slip road is the opposite hand to the turnout and is basically a wye and will ease in radius as the curve of the up main tightens.

 

Don

[phixer64]

Hi Bodge, great project, but, one problem, a month in...... and as you would say..... No Grass as yet!!

 

Keep up the great work.

 

Jeff

Edited September 7, 2014 by phixer64

[Andrew P]

Wow I do seem to have started something.

Firstly However you plan to operate the layout the single slip crossover/yard entry is iconic of the Midland to leave it out would lose the flavour of the place.

 

Secondly it is needed for an up goods to shunt the yard. The train arrives and stops in the platform. Backs into the goods loop. Loco uncouples and runs forward into the station then back along the up line over the slip road onto the down. Finally back through the straight road of the slip into the loop and the rear of the train in a position to shunt. It will then reverse the process to gain the front of the train.

 

A down goods would have an easier time the train stops clear of the turnout and then backs through the straight road of the slip into the goods loop the loco is the right end to shunt. Howver THIS is the bit that was worring me. Backing a goods train through a curve below 24inch radius could be a problem with three link couplings. Even if just a dropping off move. The train will stop opposite the loop the loco pulls of a cut of wagons then backs them through the curved turout.

 

The solutions are either increase the mainline radius through the turnout or increase the crossing angle. IN templot if you create a curved turout set the crossing which I did to 1:6 set the switch to B then F6 will adjust the curved radius  with a box telling  you the radius of the main. However the other box which give turout info shows the diverging radius minimum which will change as you adjust the main. A bit of play with adjusting the curve and the crossing should achieve a sensible compromise. The slip only needs to suit the turnout the slip road is the opposite hand to the turnout and is basically a wye and will ease in radius as the curve of the up main tightens.

 

Don

Morning Don,

 

Thanks for that but first I feel I must add a correction to the post.

 

You have your up's and downs' around the wrong way, Up is to Derby, and so its the Down that stops in the Platform to reverse back into the Yard etc etc, the rest is all fine.

 

Re the curve and angle, I had a long chat with Jason last night and he has almost the same angles on Bacup and will be even tighter on his new Layout, The Mill (see The Mill, in this section) and he uses 3 link couplings.

One thing I will be doing during the track laying process is to install Kadee Magnets under he track in strategic locations, so if for any reason that; A the curves anywhere on the Layout are to tight for 3 link I can revert to Kadee, or B that I just cant get on with coupling / uncoupling with the 3 links then I have a second option in place.

 

Bodge.

[Andrew P]

Hi Bodge, great project, but, one problem, a month in...... and as you would say..... No Grass as yet!!

 

Keep up the great work.

 

Jeff

Morning Jeff, I don't know about the grass, normally a Month in and its built exhibited, photographed and SOLD, hahhaahh

 

Keep looking mate it will come in November, but I ain't sayin which year, hahhahheee

 

Bodge

[David Todd]

Hi Guys, As most of you know, that for the last 4 years or so, I've had 9 x7 Modeling room, so now anything seems huge.

 

I'm glad its taken longer than originally planned to get the Shed and Base sorted because,

A, I've had more time to raise some much needed funds, and

B, I've had the chance to re appraise the Potting Shed size.

 

At one stage it was looking like it would be about 10 x 12 and that would have been it, now I will have room for a nice run, a nice fiddle yard, gentle curves, almost a scale length Station and yard, room for the work bench / spray bench and loads more benefits.

 

One thing I may do is use the extra foot of width for baseboards rather than a walkway, I will have just under 9ft across once its lined, so if I go for 2ft 6 inches wide for the boards that will still leave just under 4ft walkway which is ample apart from when I have more than a couple of visitors.

 

The extra wide boards will mean a couple more roads in the fiddle yard, but more importantly more room for scenics on the main board, more yard area, more fields, more cottages, more realistic, less model like.

 

The Shed man is now also going to supply and lay a new floor on top of the Tounge and Groove flooring. He is laying my preferred base of 2 inches of Polystyrene and then a treated Plywood floor. This will not only give me a softer floor to walk on but also insulate it more and stop cold coming up through during the winter Months. It will also have these Rubber Flooring Mats down the centre in the walkway. There is an edging to go around as well, my mate Lee has these with a Yellow edge so you don't trip over at the entrance.

floor mats.jpg

 

Also I didn't relish the thought of lugging 8ft x 4ft sheets of 18mm timber around in my state of health at the moment, and, he's only £2 a sheet dearer than a well known high street DIY Store, plus as it will come with the Shed I don't pay the DIY store delivery charge.

 

There will be a full pic by pic, blow by blow, account of the Potting Shed going up next Friday.

 

Bodge.

 

A one-day fundraising stand  @ RM Live,also at Expo,next week end, may help you get your layout project off the ground.........just a thought........

[Ray H]

I'm going to stick my neck out here . . . .

 

I am going to guess that the diagram that Andy has is a reasonably good representation scale wise and evidence in one earlier post serves to confirm this (in my mind).

 

Consequently up (northbound?) trains would arrive, set back into the yard and shunt the yard using the up line as the "headshunt". What looks like a headshunt in the yard is, if the drawing is more or less to scale, little more than a loco's length. One of the earlier pictures suggests that No. 2 signal - the down home - is almost on top of the crossover and is as far as I can see, adjacent to the down line which would either put it beyond the stops of the (yard) "headshunt" or between the headshunt and running line. I'd suggest that if the signal needed to be in that position and the headshunt extended further back the home signal would have been on a bracket over the headshunt.

 

On the basis of the above I could also envisage a case where the down line alongside the yard was used (perhaps occasionally) as somewhere to briefly leave the odd wagon during shunting.

 

Down trains would have arrived at the platform and set back into the yard. The loco would then run round as indicated previously, again shunted the yard via the up line and finally regained the front of its train.

 

Down trains wouldn't be allowed to leave Warmley whilst shunting was in progress - unless the shunting was suspended to allow the train from Warmley to be accepted, approach and pass. Up trains may have been permitted to approach if the up line was clear - shunting temporarily paused - and may have been allowed to sit in the platform to allow shunting to resume further along the up line but the up train would have to have been stationary before the shunting could re-commencee.

 

I think it would be unlikely to be able to get the necessary (signal) overlap - 440 yards? - on a down outer home signal clear of the crossing to make it worth providing that signal and thus allow shunting to continue with trains approaching from Warmley.

 

It's easy to see both how shunting could delay other trains unintentionally and why goods trains were often delayed excessively if their shunting kept getting interrupted when other trains needed to pass.

 

And with that I shall duck back below the parapet until the flak has stopped.

[Ray H]

Me again!

 

I know I've touched on this before but if there are concerns about the space required to ease the curve on the single slip, replacing the first two turnouts in the yard with a double slip might just leave you the extra length to ease that curve without compromising on the siding lengths. It may not have been exactly like that at Bitton but you have evidence that it is prototypical elsewhere and you did say you were only basing the layout on Bitton not making a scale model of the place.

[Donw]

Morning Don,

 

Thanks for that but first I feel I must add a correction to the post.

 

You have your up's and downs' around the wrong way, Up is to Derby, and so its the Down that stops in the Platform to reverse back into the Yard etc etc, the rest is all fine.

 

Re the curve and angle, I had a long chat with Jason last night and he has almost the same angles on Bacup and will be even tighter on his new Layout, The Mill (see The Mill, in this section) and he uses 3 link couplings.

One thing I will be doing during the track laying process is to install Kadee Magnets under he track in strategic locations, so if for any reason that; A the curves anywhere on the Layout are to tight for 3 link I can revert to Kadee, or B that I just cant get on with coupling / uncoupling with the 3 links then I have a second option in place.

 

Bodge.

Fair do Andy it is your layout. I was not trying to be pedantic but as all the other turnout are large radius I assumed you would want this one to a reasonably large anyway. As for the ups and down I blame you for posting the plan upside down Hahaha ......

Don

[Clive Mortimore]

I'm going to stick my neck out here . . . .

 

I am going to guess that the diagram that Andy has is a reasonably good representation scale wise and evidence in one earlier post serves to confirm this (in my mind).

 

Consequently up (northbound?) trains would arrive, set back into the yard and shunt the yard using the up line as the "headshunt". What looks like a headshunt in the yard is, if the drawing is more or less to scale, little more than a loco's length. One of the earlier pictures suggests that No. 2 signal - the down home - is almost on top of the crossover and is as far as I can see, adjacent to the down line which would either put it beyond the stops of the (yard) "headshunt" or between the headshunt and running line. I'd suggest that if the signal needed to be in that position and the headshunt extended further back the home signal would have been on a bracket over the headshunt.

 

On the basis of the above I could also envisage a case where the down line alongside the yard was used (perhaps occasionally) as somewhere to briefly leave the odd wagon during shunting.

 

Down trains would have arrived at the platform and set back into the yard. The loco would then run round as indicated previously, again shunted the yard via the up line and finally regained the front of its train.

 

Down trains wouldn't be allowed to leave Warmley whilst shunting was in progress - unless the shunting was suspended to allow the train from Warmley to be accepted, approach and pass. Up trains may have been permitted to approach if the up line was clear - shunting temporarily paused - and may have been allowed to sit in the platform to allow shunting to resume further along the up line but the up train would have to have been stationary before the shunting could re-commencee.

 

I think it would be unlikely to be able to get the necessary (signal) overlap - 440 yards? - on a down outer home signal clear of the crossing to make it worth providing that signal and thus allow shunting to continue with trains approaching from Warmley.

 

It's easy to see both how shunting could delay other trains unintentionally and why goods trains were often delayed excessively if their shunting kept getting interrupted when other trains needed to pass.

 

And with that I shall duck back below the parapet until the flak has stopped.

Hi Ray

 

What the Bodgemaster needs is a Passenger Working Timetable and a Freight WTT for the same year then he can see when the stopping freights were shunting at Bitton, as the arrival and departure times are normally shown, and if there was any passing passenger trains during that time. That would indicate if there was a problem and shunting had to stop or not.

 

Has anybody copies of a 1950s WTTs both freight and passenger that the Bodgemaster could borrow?

[Joseph_Pestell]

Given the length of crossover (#6) that Jason has drawn on Templot, I am fairly sure that the tight curve radii are about 36". Not sure where the 24" is coming from.

 

With regard to shunting an up train, usual practice would be to leave most of the train on the mainline (in this case alongside the up platform). Only the wagons needed at Bitton would be propelled across the crossover. This of course required good planning in the marshalling yard where the train originated so that the wagons for each station were in the right part of the train. That would of course be further complicated by cattle wagons (marshalled at the head of the train), part brake-fitted trains (fitted wagons at head of train) and any oil tanks or explosives (not at head of train).

[Clive Mortimore]

 

 

As I said a couple of post back, there was a Daily delivery of Flowers to Bristol, Fruit and Veg to Bath, and Hide loaded and delivered as well. So one would assume that to take something out, empties must come in for the following day. 

 

 

Bodge.

Hi Bodge

 

Flowers and some fruit and veg might be loaded in the van of a passenger train to get it to market in a fresh as possible state. Parcels trains would also carry some perishable goods in the vans, they were not always full of toys ordered from the Grattan’s mail order catalogue.

 

 

Given the length of crossover (#6) that Jason has drawn on Templot, I am fairly sure that the tight curve radii are about 36". Not sure where the 24" is coming from.

 

With regard to shunting an up train, usual practice would be to leave most of the train on the mainline (in this case alongside the up platform). Only the wagons needed at Bitton would be propelled across the crossover. This of course required good planning in the marshalling yard where the train originated so that the wagons for each station were in the right part of the train. That would of course be further complicated by cattle wagons (marshalled at the head of the train), part brake-fitted trains (fitted wagons at head of train) and any oil tanks or explosives (not at head of train).

Hi Joseph

 

I agree that in many cases the train would be left on the main line, only the wagons for the station would be propelled into the yard. That is why checking the WTTs would show if there was a need to clear the main line of any wagons while shunting was taking place. In some cases the locomotive would shunt the wagons into the yard and leave them. Any further movement would be done by the yard porters with capstans or even a pinch bar and a push. Or they would load and unload where the wagon stood. There wasn't always the time to do the precise shunting we see modellers doing at exhibitions.

 

The daily stopping freight train would run under class K (or later class 9) headcode and is not required to have a fitted head. Any fitted wagons would have the brakes isolated and run as unfitted in the order they were to be dropped off in, as you have stated. Class A tank wagons (silver or grey) or gunpowder vans would be in the correct part of the train using other wagons for the station they were be delivered to as their barrier wagons. Class B tanks (black ones) do not require barrier wagons.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Clive Mortimore

[buffalo]

...However now I know why I could not draw the slips on Dent with Templot. As Jason points out - you can't. Probably lost a week trying!...

 

Jason's comment was a bit misleading. Perhaps he meant that Templot doesn't do all the work for you. It is quite possible to make any type of slip with the current Templot. Essentially, you create a diamond crossing and add switches and the linking slip rails, though you have to do quite a bit of work to achieve this. First time can be something of a nightmare, but after you've done it once it's fairly straightforward. Video of creating a single slip here with Templot2 and an old page about doing it with earlier versions here. There's also plenty of discussion on the Templot Club pages.

 

Nick

[Jason T]

Nick's right, it is possible but there are quite a few steps and even having followed them yesterday to create the above template, I don't think zip could do another now without referring back to the tutorial again.

 

The tutorials are pretty good, it must be said.

[Andrew P]

I'm going to stick my neck out here . . . .

 

I am going to guess that the diagram that Andy has is a reasonably good representation scale wise and evidence in one earlier post serves to confirm this (in my mind).

 

Consequently up (northbound?) trains would arrive, set back into the yard and shunt the yard using the up line as the "headshunt". What looks like a headshunt in the yard is, if the drawing is more or less to scale, little more than a loco's length. One of the earlier pictures suggests that No. 2 signal - the down home - is almost on top of the crossover and is as far as I can see, adjacent to the down line which would either put it beyond the stops of the (yard) "headshunt" or between the headshunt and running line. I'd suggest that if the signal needed to be in that position and the headshunt extended further back the home signal would have been on a bracket over the headshunt.

 

On the basis of the above I could also envisage a case where the down line alongside the yard was used (perhaps occasionally) as somewhere to briefly leave the odd wagon during shunting.

 

Down trains would have arrived at the platform and set back into the yard. The loco would then run round as indicated previously, again shunted the yard via the up line and finally regained the front of its train.

 

Down trains wouldn't be allowed to leave Warmley whilst shunting was in progress - unless the shunting was suspended to allow the train from Warmley to be accepted, approach and pass. Up trains may have been permitted to approach if the up line was clear - shunting temporarily paused - and may have been allowed to sit in the platform to allow shunting to resume further along the up line but the up train would have to have been stationary before the shunting could re-commencee.

 

I think it would be unlikely to be able to get the necessary (signal) overlap - 440 yards? - on a down outer home signal clear of the crossing to make it worth providing that signal and thus allow shunting to continue with trains approaching from Warmley.

 

It's easy to see both how shunting could delay other trains unintentionally and why goods trains were often delayed excessively if their shunting kept getting interrupted when other trains needed to pass.

 

And with that I shall duck back below the parapet until the flak has stopped.

Ray I think your more or less spot on on every count, the Down outer Home signal is just beyond the Buffer of the Head Shunt, now I cant find evidence of its length so on my model it will have a head shunt of about 3ft, enough to store a nice rake of wagons, or uses to shunt the yard without interfering with the Main Line.

 

That said, a down Goods, sets back into the Yard, and detaches the Loco, and then uses the down line to run round, BUT and its a BIG BUT it can only access the Goods Loop via the Up Main, going through the Slip to the Up Line and then back into the Yard via the Slip to the Goods Loop.

 

In the book it states that when shunting was taking place trains on the Down Line were held at the Outer Home Signal, so about level with the end of the head shunt. But I also think that this would be a rairety  as the Main would take priority every time.

 

The Up Main can be free to access once the Loco has performed the run round and is in the Yard.

 

Once again, thanks for your input, it all helps.

 

Bodge.

[Andrew P]

Me again!

 

I know I've touched on this before but if there are concerns about the space required to ease the curve on the single slip, replacing the first two turnouts in the yard with a double slip might just leave you the extra length to ease that curve without compromising on the siding lengths. It may not have been exactly like that at Bitton but you have evidence that it is prototypical elsewhere and you did say you were only basing the layout on Bitton not making a scale model of the place.

Ray thanks once again for this but it will stay as two points, A, because I like it, and B because its prototype, and C, because its about £50 cheaper.

 

Cheers,

Bodge.

[Andrew P]

Hi Ray

 

What the Bodgemaster needs is a Passenger Working Timetable and a Freight WTT for the same year then he can see when the stopping freights were shunting at Bitton, as the arrival and departure times are normally shown, and if there was any passing passenger trains during that time. That would indicate if there was a problem and shunting had to stop or not.

 

Has anybody copies of a 1950s WTTs both freight and passenger that the Bodgemaster could borrow?

Thanks Clive, I will be working late 60's but yes the idea is spot on, I could then also devise a working Timetable for the Layout that would be a Brain Teaser to operate instead of just running trains.

 

I like that idea a lot.

 

Bodge.

[Andrew P]

Given the length of crossover (#6) that Jason has drawn on Templot, I am fairly sure that the tight curve radii are about 36". Not sure where the 24" is coming from.

 

With regard to shunting an up train, usual practice would be to leave most of the train on the mainline (in this case alongside the up platform). Only the wagons needed at Bitton would be propelled across the crossover. This of course required good planning in the marshalling yard where the train originated so that the wagons for each station were in the right part of the train. That would of course be further complicated by cattle wagons (marshalled at the head of the train), part brake-fitted trains (fitted wagons at head of train) and any oil tanks or explosives (not at head of train).

Again Joseph, this is how it was done I guess, and its going to be fun to work out, its down to how trains left the original destination.

 

Good Fun

 

Bodge.

[Andrew P]

Hi Bodge

 

Flowers and some fruit and veg might be loaded in the van of a passenger train to get it to market in a fresh as possible state. Parcels trains would also carry some perishable goods in the vans, they were not always full of toys ordered from the Grattan’s mail order catalogue.

 

 

Hi Joseph

 

I agree that in many cases the train would be left on the main line, only the wagons for the station would be propelled into the yard. That is why checking the WTTs would show if there was a need to clear the main line of any wagons while shunting was taking place. In some cases the locomotive would shunt the wagons into the yard and leave them. Any further movement would be done by the yard porters with capstans or even a pinch bar and a push. Or they would load and unload where the wagon stood. There wasn't always the time to do the precise shunting we see modellers doing at exhibitions.

 

The daily stopping freight train would run under class K (or later class 9) headcode and is not required to have a fitted head. Any fitted wagons would have the brakes isolated and run as unfitted in the order they were to be dropped off in, as you have stated. Class A tank wagons (silver or grey) or gunpowder vans would be in the correct part of the train using other wagons for the station they were be delivered to as their barrier wagons. Class B tanks (black ones) do not require barrier wagons.

Clive I had no idea about the different colour wagons in fleets.

 

The Flowers for Bristol were loaded into Coffin shaped Baskets and onto Vans in the Yard and then attached to the relavant Passenger train bound for Bristol Temple Meads.

 

On return, I guess the Down train would have to use the Loco to use the Goods Loop to run around and collect it from the rear of the train it would be detatched and shunted back into the yard some how, or if it was marshaled next to the Loco it would drop the train on the main and pull forward and reverse the wagon back into the yard.

 

Bodge.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Andrew P