Hornby VIX Ferry Vans. Detailing and the new Railtec Transfers (post #68).

[Dagworth]

panel 2 has the same 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' location, but with a four line 'boxed' panel

'Hfs' (the UIC equivalent of a TOPS code)

'FERRY VAN'

'20T' 'tare 36-xx' - I can't quite read

'GB787110'

 

The Tare weight is 14-10. same as on panel 10

 

Andi

[BernardTPM]

Nice close view of the lettering on the doors, I suspect the typeface changed to Transport at the same time as the double arrows appeared (i.e. after this livery) http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brferryvan/hF8652F#h66d6c5ca The posters are a temporary thing .... British Bogs to Baghdad - sadly not.

The 'Flying Crate' version used 'Transport' typeface. I suspect officially the 'Double Arrow' version should use 'Rail' alphabet, but clearly that wasn't always the case from photos, though this one http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brferryvan/h6FD82781#h1967460 does (no serif on the 'l').

[hmrspaul]

The photo of GB787110 was used in Transport Age when they were new. Certainly an official photo.

 

I find it quite noticeable that the boxed lettering is not popular, and gets reduced quite quickly, and not used once the computer type numbers came in.

 

I don't know what "Transport" type face is. However, I think it is important to realise these wagons were being introduced before the Corporate image (1965) but during the introduction of the 3-D box and associated boxed in lettering http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brconflata/e675871bb in 1963. So, early ones are in the earlier style - as the b/w photo in this thread. Notice that this one http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brferryvan/e6dc9caaa in early 1969 still has no lettering on the door, although it has the continental computer number and some boxed in lettering which I would suggest is a revision of the livery and not as built.

 

Drawing of these vans in

Bartlett, Paul W. & Mann, T., (1984c) Cross Channel Ferry Wagons used on BR. Model Railway Constructor Annual 1985 pp 18 - 29, edited by Leigh, Chris.

 

Paul

Edited August 14, 2014 by hmrspaul

[griffgriff]

The photo of GB787110 was used in Transport Age when they were new. Certainly an official photo.

 

I find it quite noticeable that the boxed lettering is not popular, and gets reduced quite quickly, and not used once the computer type numbers came in.

 

I don't know what "Transport" type face is. However, I think it is important to realise these wagons were being introduced before the Corporate image (1965) but during the introduction of the 3-D box and associated boxed in lettering http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brconflata/e675871bb in 1963. So, early ones are in the earlier style - as the b/w photo in this thread. Notice that this one http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brferryvan/e6dc9caaa in early 1969 still has no lettering on the door, although it has the continental computer number and some boxed in lettering which I would suggest is a revision of the livery and not as built.

 

Drawing of these vans in

Bartlett, Paul W. & Mann, T., (1984c) Cross Channel Ferry Wagons used on BR. Model Railway Constructor Annual 1985 pp 18 - 29, edited by Leigh, Chris.

 

Paul

Transport alphabet

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_(typeface)

 

The same designers as rail alphabet IIRC

[hmrspaul]

Transport alphabet

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_(typeface)

 

The same designers as rail alphabet IIRC

Thanks, I had heard a radio 4 programme about this for road use, but hadn't connected it with the lettering style  used with the 1962 freight style. The use of lower case - as on the container linked to above - makes sense.

 

Paul

[Fat Controller]

A little more on flying crate version

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brferryvan/hF8652F#h6fd82781 shows the same version of the livery, but probably post-ferry use, in panel 10 the wheelbase is now shown 'W B 26'3" '

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brferryvan/hF8652F#hf8652f again flying crate but this time with the boxed lettering painted out and the first RIV number painted over the top. I should really look up the renumbering date but if someone has it to hand it would help c1968 rings bells?

 

Nice close view of the lettering on the doors, I suspect the typeface changed to Transport at the same time as the double arrows appeared (i.e. after this livery) http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brferryvan/hF8652F#h66d6c5ca The posters are a temporary thing .... British Bogs to Baghdad - sadly not.

 

Jon

How feasible would it be to do the UIC numbering with interchangeable National Operators? For example, replacing 70 BR with 83 FS or 87 SNCF, but keeping the other details the same? Am I correct in thinking that it would be possible for wagons with the same number and UIC type-code, but different operator identities to exist?

Another point to remember is that these vehicles returned to their original style of numbering when withdrawn from international use, and were re-coded 'VJX'. They were often to be seen in the late 80s/early 90s , 'sandwiching' a single VEA or similar in MoD traffic on Speedlink trains.

[jonhall]

Brown with international number - there seem to be two types of numbering one with a stencil for 21 RIV 70BR and Hfs, with the core wagon number in a slightly larger size, or all number the same size and presumably signwritten.

 

First up is an oddity - I suspect that this van didn't run to the continent with the modified suspension, but it clearly has been there just prior to conversion based on the 'CFF Bale' sticker. This is a BR official showing HSFV4 probably taken at the RTC in Derby. It shows the all sign written type of lettering (and 'FERRY VAN' has appeared in a box on panel 3) .

 

 

Next is the stencil type, and this is from the cover of a BR Railfreight brochure, here tops code VIX has replaced the FERRY VAN text on panel 3.

 

 

Then 3 other Railfreight info sheets from c1977/78 the first has the two different typefaces on the two different photos.

 

 

 

 

Jon

[jonhall]

Before I leave brown with UIC there are a couple of oddities, first up on page 10 of David Ratcliffe's book on ferry wagons, the bottom plate shows 'Through to the Continent by British Rail' in an unusual stencil text on 21 70 2380 251-5.

 

I also have a photo without credit, but which I suspect is David Larkin, of 21 70 2140144-3 (note - no spaces between the 2140144) that has a huge double arrow on the door (think large logo loco liveries).

 

The renumbering from the 214 series to 238 series must have taken place in the early 80's, at about the same time these started to fall out of international traffic and return to their old B7xxxxx series numbers, often ending up as TOPS code RBX.

 

Jon

[jonhall]

I'm a bit short of photos for flame red, but there are lots of variations in the Railfreight lettering on the door.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brferryvan/hc16c217#h67dfd561 Small Railfreight in a box with 'Through to the Continent by British Rail'

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brferryvan/hc16c217#h6ca9de35 Large Railfreight no through to....lettering

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brferryvan/hc16c217#h68e83149Large Railfreight in a slightly funny typeface, no 'through to... ' lettering

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brferryvan/hc16c217#h10b0ec2d Lareg Railfreight with International underneath, but no box around text

 

Jon

[ZiderHead]

If you fancy running just a couple of these ferry vans (in a fairly tatty state) in N Wales there is an interesting use of them about halfway down this page:

 

http://www.penmorfa.com/Archive/thirtyone.htm

 

 

 

Edit: the tatty state refers to the vans, not Wales of course

Edited August 14, 2014 by ZiderHead

[dasatcopthorne]

Before I leave brown with UIC there are a couple of oddities, first up on page 10 of David Ratcliffe's book on ferry wagons, the bottom plate shows 'Through to the Continent by British Rail' in an unusual stencil text on 21 70 2380 251-5.

 

I also have a photo without credit, but which I suspect is David Larkin, of 21 70 2140144-3 (note - no spaces between the 2140144) that has a huge double arrow on the door (think large logo loco liveries).

 

The renumbering from the 214 series to 238 series must have taken place in the early 80's, at about the same time these started to fall out of international traffic and return to their old B7xxxxx series numbers, often ending up as TOPS code RBX.

 

Jon

 

 

Jon.

 

You must mean this.

 

Dave (Larkin) took this from his signal box. March 1977 I believe.

 

It is all Black (well, maybe not the roof) with red bufferbeams.

 

I've just painted mine.

 

 

Dave

 

[jonhall]

So I think what I would want on a transfer sheet would depend on how much (how many wagons) could be printed on such a sheet, and/or how much interest there was in dividing it across two sheets. It seems to me that the dividing line would be the serif/non-serif 'Through to the Continent by British Rail(ways)'

 

Assuming a sheet size of about A6 I would think splitting into two sheets pre-1964ish and post 1964ish style livery sheets.

 

It would be possible to get 3 sets of 'Through to the Continent by British' in serif style with the Rail/Railways word being separate to allow either version. Plus 3 sets of flying crate, plus 3-4 sets of the standard ferry logos plus perhaps 1 set of lettering/numbering for panel 2 as per my first photo, one set for panel 2 with the 'boxed' style lettering and 2 sets of RIV style numbering, plus a few groupings of numbers to allow different running numbers.

 

For a post 1964ish sheet the sans serif 'Through to the Continent by British Rail' appears to be compatible with both Brown and red/grey liveries, plus double arrows (although I suspect most would be quite happy using double arrows from elsewhere if we had to) plus 3-4 sets of the standard ferry logos plus predominantly RIV numbers with just 1 or 2 78xxxx series numbers, with perhaps a small and large (boxed) 'Railfreight' and a large 'International'

 

Jon

[jonhall]

Jon.

 

You must mean this.

 

Dave (Larkin) took this from his signal box. March 1977 I believe.

 

It is all Black (well, maybe not the roof) with red bufferbeams.

 

I've just painted mine.

 

 

Dave

 

VIX Black.jpg

 

Same wagon different photo - do Dave's notes really say black for that wagon? Its rather unusual to say the least!

Jon

[leopardml2341]

Same wagon different photo - do Dave's notes really say black for that wagon? Its rather unusual to say the least!

Jon

Could it be the early Railfreight Maroon as on VAA's etc

 

I think it was called"....... Red" ?

[dasatcopthorne]

Same wagon different photo - do Dave's notes really say black for that wagon? Its rather unusual to say the least!

 

Jon

Jon.

 

I mentioned to Dave that I was detailing some vans and he supplied a set of shots featuring their roofs as I wanted to see how they looked 'rib' wise.

 

He then suggested this black van and livery is from his own memory.

 

Certainly, the buffer shanks are a different colour and Dave's memory is good on this subject.

 

Dave.

 

Ps. Still got any etches for these?

[hmrspaul]

... which is why I photographed so many of these wagons. During the 1980s it was unlucky if two were photographed with a similar livery!

 

Paul

[railtec-models]

Jon, you're certainly the man with the info! Please allow us some time to digest the vast detail kindly provided. If it's ok we might contact you privately if there are other bits of detail which might be required. We have a few sizes of "standard" sheet so I'm sure we can come up with something which will hopefully suit most people. Just to set the correct expectation - as ever with these things, it's entirely likely that there won't be a perfect pack for everyone, but we'll certainly do what we can to cater for as many folk as possible. It may take us a short while to study what we think would suit, as we constantly have to juggle other demands in parallel. Watch this space...

 

Thanks,

Steve

[dasatcopthorne]

Jon, you're certainly the man with the info! Please allow us some time to digest the vast detail kindly provided. If it's ok we might contact you privately if there are other bits of detail which might be required. We have a few sizes of "standard" sheet so I'm sure we can come up with something which will hopefully suit most people. Just to set the correct expectation - as ever with these things, it's entirely likely that there won't be a perfect pack for everyone, but we'll certainly do what we can to cater for as many folk as possible. It may take us a short while to study what we think would suit, as we constantly have to juggle other demands in parallel. Watch this space...

 

Thanks,

Steve

As the originator of this thread, this is very much appreciated Steve.

 

I look forward to buying enough for six vans.

 

Cheers

 

Dave.

[jonhall]

 

 

Also Jon, no mention of your ventilator etches?

 

 

My ferry vent etch are technically for a DB van I was scratchbuilding, and are a shade to wide for the Hornby VIX, but are very easy to narrow using a file or a sharp pair of tinsnips. £1.50 a pair (reduced because I have SO many now) plus postage at cost. Two different styles available - with or without a 'buckle' in the leg of the Y.

 

 

Jon

[bescotbeast]

Well this is great news ,  logged on to find some kind soul has taken up the challenge of creating these transfers. I've got one Freight brown van and two in flame red livery.

                                                    Simon

[dasatcopthorne]

My ferry vent etch are technically for a DB van I was scratchbuilding, and are a shade to wide for the Hornby VIX, but are very easy to narrow using a file or a sharp pair of tinsnips. £1.50 a pair (reduced because I have SO many now) plus postage at cost. Two different styles available - with or without a 'buckle' in the leg of the Y.

 

rmwebsales001.jpg

 

Jon

Jon.

 

I'll have two of each please.

 

I'll PM you.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[steve1]

I have three of these to that I have been working on for about 10 years or more at various times. (Ask Mr Monk!).

 

PW use as well as traffic ones would suit me for transfers thanks.

 

steve

[dasatcopthorne]

Hi Guys.

 

Here's few pics of some of the work I have done on my VIX vans.

 

Roof vent removed, lower door runners removed, upper door runner slimmed down, chassis lowered onto axle units and new wheels fitted, and finally some handrails replaced with wire.

 

Now I just needs those transfers please guys.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PhilJ W]

Have you made the wheelbase 'rigid'?

[dasatcopthorne]

Have you made the wheelbase 'rigid'?

Phil.

 

Yes I have.

 

The layout these will operate on has curves not tighter than 48" radius.

 

Dave.