Bachmann announce 0-6-2T L&NWR Webb Coal Tank

[Compound2632]

I wonder if RTR will ever get around to Webb Compounds, 

Correctly sequenced the locos could pull very well on starts, and were said to be smooth running due to lack of side rods. Webb came in for a lot of flack on the design but it worked in experienced hands.

Dreadnought anybody?

 

Stephen.

 

The Teutonics were apparently superb engines for their intended task - Jeanie Deans was a "show" engine like the Jumbo "Charles Dickens" - rostered to the same high-profile express day-in-day-out.

 

I'd have though a Jumbo would be a much more likely RTR proposition - a class surviving well into the grouping era and represented by "Hardwicke" at the NRM.  

[Jol Wilkinson]

I wonder if RTR will ever get around to Webb Compounds, an interesting area of design in locos, fine if the driver followed the rules but a disaster if procedures were not followed, with the low pressure middle cylinder left set in reverse whilst the HP cylinders tried to move the train forward. If the correct instructions were followed to the letter they worked but mistakes could lead to dismissal. too many extra taps to remember to set on the compound cylinder, with an air bleed, steam bypass feed and drain cocks get in the right order to allow the slip eccentric gear to reset itself as the loco started.

Forget the air bleed and trying to start without waiting as it rolled forward to close it and the front wheels could run in reverse. Made worst by a bypass that fed steam direct to the compound compound cylinder and if that was used there was spectacular reverse wheel spin! It did not happen often apparently and if it happened in front of senior staff it was a sacking offence.

Correctly sequenced the locos could pull very well on starts, and were said to be smooth running due to lack of side rods. Webb came in for a lot of flack on the design but it worked in experienced hands.

Dreadnought anybody?

 

Stephen.

 

Ah, the old myth. There was, published some years ago,  a very interesting and authoritative treatise that showed  "wheels rotating in opposite directions"  wasn't possible. Owing to the lack of volume in the low pressure "steam reservoir" (actually the pipes connecting the HP and LP cylinders) there wasn't enough power (steam volume and pressure) available to spin the LP front wheels..

 

Likewise the myth - put about by Ahrons I believe - that teams of men with pinchbars were employed at Euston to move the loco into a position where the LP  and HP cylinders were all in forward gear was also very questionable. While they might, after a plate of spinach, been able to move the loco, it wasn't very likely with 250 - 300 ton's of carriages coupled to it.

 

Some compounds were equipped with separately controllable gear for HP and LP cylinders, which gave good results but for some reason Webb didn't persist with it. The Teutonics, the last and most powerful of the 3 cylinder 2-2-2-0s, were very strong runners. Jeannie Deans, the only non "ic" named member of the class ran the  2 p.m. Scotch dining train (London to Glasgow) daily from January, 1891, until August, 1899. It's unlikely that the LNWR would have put a poor performing locomotive on their prestige express.

 

As for the RTR manufacturers introducing such a loco into their range, I consider it most unlikely. There isn't a preserved version for them to scan, they disappeared many years ago and are so unknown to most casual collectors. They also have a complex outside valve gear (even if you model a "static" version). Here is a picture of the chassis for the London Road Models kit. While this can be built in "fixed" semi working and fully working versions, I suggest that it would have to be more robust to suit the needs of the RTR OO market and therefore outside the scope of RTR manufacture.

 

 

The only other LNWR loco that might appear from the Chinese factories is of the Precursor Class 2-4-0, as they could copy Hardwicke at the NRM.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Jol Wilkinson

[SDJR7F88]

Few more images and close-ups taken during my review. Hope they are of help

Video review can be seen here; 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CjV8FlrtKI

[bertiedog]

The wheelspin was reported in the Engineer at the time, but must be read, as you will realise, as anti MrWebb.

 

The inability to do it reported again in the Engineer I believe, was perhaps with an engine without the HP steam bypass that fed the low pressure cylinder direct from the regulator.  Nobody seems these days to have a record of which compounds had the bypass fitted. The compounds were quite capable of moving themselves to reset the slip eccentric, that was what was meant to happen in the first rotation of the wheels, aided by having the drain cocks open on the LP cylinder. Ahrons reporting moving trains by pinch bars is very odd indeed. They were quite able to work on just the HP cylinders.

 

Webbs idea of no rods was workable as power was only taken up as the engine moved off, by both cylinders, after one rotation, and then in theory they were in phase and coupled by the track. No worse really than a banking engine pair.

 

In practice one or the other set slipped and things got out of phase with a reduction in pull at that point, which only came back as things settled into phase again. Better more supportive reports say they were steady runners, and pulled well once underway.

 

But in the end the Coal Tank showed he knew how to build a good sound loco design, but he had an eccentric attitude, and would never be contradicted on anything, making him his own worst enemy at times.

 

Looking forward to the mail, I have to mail order Locos as nearly housebound these days. Nice pictures, neat video,

 

Stephen.

[Gordieb01]

Looks like Bachmann have done a nice job on this loco.  I Wish they'd do a Prince of Wales or a George V.   Still I do have a Etched Brass Prince Kit to make up so that usually

means the RTR manufacturers will announce a model LOL.

[Edwardian]

Few more images and close-ups taken during my review. Hope they are of help

Video review can be seen here; 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CjV8FlrtKI

 

 Very nice.

 

Look forward to a lined version.

[bertiedog]

A thought occurred about the compounds requiring being moved as Ahrons quoted, there is a situation where the settings would stop all movement, and that is the possibility of the slip eccentric ending up in mid gear by accident. This would leave both ports covered by the slide valve and render passage of steam from the HP exhaust null and void, a stuck engine, that would indeed need assistance to move to reset the slip eccentric. once moved half a rotation the slip eccentric would then return the valve to normal.

 

So maybe Ahrons was right, it could happen.

 

And of course reverse running never happened on through stations, only at terminus stops was there any risk.

My close interest is a 3/4 finished 3.5 gauge compound in the workshop, and has working compounding. in fact a friend who built one in 5 inch runs his with the bypass open to improve haulage!!!... not in the spirit of compound operation...

.

Thank goodness the Coal tank was simple operation!

[asmay2002]

A thought occurred about the compounds requiring being moved as Ahrons quoted, there is a situation where the settings would stop all movement, and that is the possibility of the slip eccentric ending up in mid gear by accident. This would leave both ports covered by the slide valve and render passage of steam from the HP exhaust null and void, a stuck engine, that would indeed need assistance to move to reset the slip eccentric. once moved half a rotation the slip eccentric would then return the valve to normal.

 

So maybe Ahrons was right, it could happen.

 

And of course reverse running never happened on through stations, only at terminus stops was there any risk.

Locos were changed en route at places like Crewe and Carlisle so there would be instances of a loco backing down onto a train at places other than a terminus.

[bertiedog]

No loco yet from mail order. Bachmann must be delivering in stages to the shops

[tractionman]

No loco yet from mail order. Bachmann must be delivering in stages to the shops

Same here, I noticed yesterday that Rails are now showing the LNWR version in stock, and Hatton's email mentioned stock arriving on the 19th or later.

 

I checked my order online last night and it's 'in progress' so hopefully not too long to wait now :-)

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Edited April 20, 2017 by tractionman

[No Decorum]

Didn’t Hatton’s have a few in stock a few days ago? They rapidly went back to pre-order. Mine is on its way. Meantime I have to wash some dishes  to stop me chewing the carpet.

[LMS2968]

I wonder if RTR will ever get around to Webb Compounds, an interesting area of design in locos, fine if the driver followed the rules but a disaster if procedures were not followed, with the low pressure middle cylinder left set in reverse whilst the HP cylinders tried to move the train forward. If the correct instructions were followed to the letter they worked but mistakes could lead to dismissal. too many extra taps to remember to set on the compound cylinder, with an air bleed, steam bypass feed and drain cocks get in the right order to allow the slip eccentric gear to reset itself as the loco started.

Forget the air bleed and trying to start without waiting as it rolled forward to close it and the front wheels could run in reverse. Made worst by a bypass that fed steam direct to the compound compound cylinder and if that was used there was spectacular reverse wheel spin! It did not happen often apparently and if it happened in front of senior staff it was a sacking offence.

Correctly sequenced the locos could pull very well on starts, and were said to be smooth running due to lack of side rods. Webb came in for a lot of flack on the design but it worked in experienced hands.

Dreadnought anybody?

 

Stephen.

The phenomenon of wheels slipping in opposite directions was rare, if it ever happened at all. It was in any case easily resolved by an interception valve fitted soon after the engines' introduction which diverted the high pressure exhaust steam to the blast pipe, so cutting out the low pressure cylinder. Once the loco had moved about half a turn of its driving wheels, this valve would be closed, bringing the low pressure cylinder back into - correct - operation.

 

The problem of the Compounds was getting started at all, because the initial movement was entirely driven by two rather small high pressure cylinder, the low pressure cylinder, as described above, coming into operation only after the train had begun to move. These might not be sufficient to start a heavy train, especially if the loco stopped on a bad angle. This might require the afore-said use of pinch bars, although it seems highly unlikely.

 

None of this has anything to do with Coal Tanks though, but three three-cylinder tankies were built with a district similarity: 687, 600 and 777. All ended their days on the Buxton line, hardly a place for poor machines with built-in starting issues! 687 was initially allocated to Mansion House services where, according to Ahrons, its surging gained it  "...more unpopularity with the travelling public than probably any locomotive ever built. When leaving Victoria (Underground) a full carriage of passengers were surging backwards and forwards after the manner of a University ‘eight.’”

[bertiedog]

Hattons reporting in stock as of 11.15, so not long now.....I hope!

 

Stephen

[No Decorum]

Mine has arrived (thanks, Invicta!) and is running in at the moment. It has Bachmann’s new-style instructions and a separate sheet about the prototypes in general and 1054 in particular. The polished features are not, in my view, as prominent as in the photographs we have seen. A lovely little machine and a good runner. The buffers aren’t sprung but are beautifully detailed.

 

Of particular note is that it is sound-ready. Going by the instructions, the Next 18 decoder is plugged in as one would expect and there is provision for a speaker, specified as 15 × 11 × 9 mm, in the bunker. A PCB (already wired) holds the speaker in place and has contacts which match the speaker’s contacts. No soldering! A very clever arrangement indeed.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Now available on eBay;

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332188423124?ul_noapp=true

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192163002108?ul_noapp=true

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182536777463?ul_noapp=true

[bertiedog]

Hattons report in stock, so only packing and post to come.

[bertiedog]

In the post Today or in the Morning, so next Monday or perhaps Saturday, have to sure to be there to take in parcels, returns are an extreme nuisance.

[SDJR7F88]

Following my review of the all new Bachmann LNWR Webb Coal Tank, smart LNWR Plain Black, here's a quick running session featuring the Coal Tank in action, on a short rake of Private Owner Wagons. 
As can be seen she is a superb performer, handling a rake of 8 PO Wagons and Midland Brake Van with ease. 
Hope you enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAKSyCZ_MUM

[PaulRhB]

Picked mine up today and very impressed. I do hope they do the lined version too, only dilemma is do I wait and hope for a second version

Edited April 20, 2017 by PaulRhB

[tractionman]

Picked mine up today and very impressed. I do hope they do the lined version too, only dilemma is do I wait and hope for a second version

 

Excellent, glad to hear this and the other positive reports posted so far - my Webb tank is en route from Rails, due to arrive Saturday :-)

 

cheers,

 

Keith

[Penlan]

Following my review of the all new Bachmann LNWR Webb Coal Tank, smart LNWR Plain Black, here's a quick running session featuring the Coal Tank in action, on a short rake of Private Owner Wagons. 

As can be seen she is a superb performer, handling a rake of 8 PO Wagons and Midland Brake Van with ease. 

Oh, for a moment I thought it said "....80 PO wagons..", which I'm sure it will do.

My K's CT's do..   

[Crantock]

This is, I think, the first LNWR RTR loco in living memory. (The Bachmann G2 with Belpaire doesn't count). The crying demand is now for a brake van and vans to go with it. PO wagons are easy and even opens are easy to do.

 

I waited to post this until I had been comfortably outbid on EBay for a Gem 6 wheel brake. £43 plus post and repairs. Mouse do diag 32 vans at about £23 a shot and LRM do 10 ton brakes for about £18 and a days work assembling.

 

There is a market....

[bertiedog]

The only LNWR coaches to display run are the Ratio kits. unless turning to brass kits at far higher prices. Not looking for a dead prototype rake, and I might put Ratio GWR 4 wheelers in LNWR livery behind it.

Stephen

[Guest spet0114]

Nipped along to my local model shop this afternoon, collected my pre-order.

 

Absolutely superb little loco - runs very sweetly.

 

Having seen the photos of the preserved one in lined LNWR livery, my fingers are crossed that Bachmann issue that variant. In the meantime, the plain one will do me nicely.

 

Well done, Bachmann!

Edited April 20, 2017 by spet0114

[tractionman]

This is, I think, the first LNWR RTR loco in living memory. (The Bachmann G2 with Belpaire doesn't count). The crying demand is now for a brake van and vans to go with it. PO wagons are easy and even opens are easy to do.

I waited to post this until I had been comfortably outbid on EBay for a Gem 6 wheel brake. £43 plus post and repairs. Mouse do diag 32 vans at about £23 a shot and LRM do 10 ton brakes for about £18 and a days work assembling.

There is a market....

Yep, some tempting stuff here

 

http://www.mousa.biz/fourmm/wagons/lnwr_wagons4.html

 

The brake needs some more subscribers it seems to make it a reality...

 

All the best,

 

Keith