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Modifying/Motorising GBL Models - A2/3 on the cheap


rowanj

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The K4 and K1/1 are now in service and are making my layout temporarily masquerade as somewhere urban on the Road to The Isles. These locos are well outside my normal mythical geographic area, and without the GBL series I would never have attempted them. But I'm glad I did, even though, like most of my efforts, they are best viewed from a distance.

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I unearthed some drawings for the K4 just now, and the idea of cobbling one together in P4/S4 still appeals.

 

Possible parts sources, some of which I already have:

 

- Hornby B17 boiler barrel (shortened) and cab

- SEF K3 etched chassis and footplate

- various leftover Crownline B2 etches, mainly the cabsides

- Dave Bradwell B1/K1 smokebox door (close strapping)

- Dave Bradwell 3500 Group Standard tender

- modified AGW 5'2" wheels

 

Tempting....

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If you don't have the SEF chassis, a call to see if Dave Alexander still has his K4 etch for £1 might be worthwhile. Is the B17/B2  cab a decent match? Let's know how you get on.

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...Is the B17/B2  cab a decent match? Let's know how you get on.

I was looking at the reverse curve at the base, and thinking about similarities.....

 

It would have to be the SEF K3 chassis, as the valve gear has absolutely everything in it, and can be made reversible.

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Last year, BRM had articles from Tony Wright who adapted Bachmann's K3 to produce a K3/2 with GN tender, RH drive. A few locos kept these shorter  tenders for use in Scotland, but they migrated south in the late 1950's. Though TW's modelling is way beyond my ability, I thought I'd have a go with the GBL model to produce a reasonable facsimile. There is actually nothing more to the loco than removing the handrails and steampipe, and reinstating  the steampipe and reversing lever on the RH side. However these locos also had a shorter cab with deeperwindows, and this came from a SEF fret, available as a spare, along with a whitemetal roof. The GN tender also needs to be sourced. Mine is an excellent resin casting., though TW used a London Road Models etched kit. His loco runs on a SEF chassis, mine on a carved Bachmann split- chassis from a V1/3.

 

The photos show the cab needs reseated on the RH side, and some tidying of the transfers won't go amiss. The cab steps are part of the SEF fret, and 1 has bent, so that needs straightened. As a loco sufficiently different from the "normal" K3 however, I'm not too unhappy how it has turned out,

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The K4 is very difficult to model effectively as the running plate curves are very subtle.  The K4 has only  5'2" wheels so the running plate curves are much flatter than the B17 or even the 5'8" wheeled K3.  I tried a B17 to K4 conversion but could not make the running plate look right.

The small wheels ultimately led to the K4s downfall as they could not keep out of the way of the Glasgow Suburban electric trains like a Std 5 or Black 5 with 6 foot wheels.  Sadly Gresley believed enginemen kept to the west highlands 40 mph speed limit which led to the small wheels whereas they actually went considerably faster and a 5' 8" wheels might have been more useful, but as it was the K4s were the only locos capable of taking 9 coaches unassisted over the West Highland.  Sadly few people had the sense to realise that even if the K4 needed twice the maintenance of a K1 it was still a more labour and cost effective solution as it could quite literally do the work of 2 K1s at far less than twice the coal costs and with only one crew.

 

Going back a page or two the Compound sits ridiculously high and the Director looks a little uncomfortable teetering on undersize wheels?

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I'd forgotten all about the tip-toeing Compound. I always meant to do a later photo but got diverted, It now sits better, as I hope can be seen.

I'm not sure which D11 you think has undersized wheels. One runs on a Hornby  D49 chassis, and the other has 26mm Romfords, admittedly 1mm too small.

Interesting views on the K4 v K1. I never got to see the K4's in their element, and to be honest only got round to producing one because I had a spare GBL K3 My understanding was that the footplates were the same other than the K4 was 6" longer behind the rear driving wheel and before the curve up to the cab. There are a few excellent conversions around on the BRM and LNER sites.

Good to hear from you.

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  • 3 weeks later...

This conversion will probably take some time. The hope is to backdate" D11 Butler Henderson to represent D10 Sir Edward Fraser, the last loco of the class in service when withdrawn in Nov 1955. I don't know much about the locos and photos are at a premium.

 

The mechanism is a Hornby loco drive Schools which I got at a good price as a "spares or repair" and managed to get running. The main visual changes are the cab, which is an old-style cut out. and changes to the shape of the frame pieces from just behind the smokebox. . I also understand the tender is incorrect, but at this stage I'm going o persevere until I can research what mods are needed. Ultimately the D10 will look sufficiently different from the D11 to hopefully make it worthwhile. For my BR period, I'll also need to open out the valance above the drivers

 

.For the cab, after originally trialling a GN style etch from the SEF K3 pack, I had decided that it would either be necessary to scratchbuild a cab or, as suggested by another poster, use the GBL D11 cab with new sides. At that point another poster who is also doing this work on a Bachmann model posted that he was using an O4 cab on his loco. At that point I remembered that in my spares box was an O4 boiler and cab left over from a conversion to an O4/8. The photo shows the new cab loosely perched on the footplate. The plastic removal is really just tint trial and error. The gap between cab and firebox closes when finger pressure is applies and should virtually disappear when glued, though I'll be surprised if I get away without some filler.

 

The tender chassis needed a fair bit of plastic removed to get the tender to fit. Care was needed not to disturb the wiring - this loco picks up current from the tender. I filed off all Schools detail from the tender sides, and then cot off and thinned the GBL tender chassis details Reassembled, I was relieved to find that the chassis still ran.

 

I'll post photos in due course of the mod showing the tender assembly and the cuts needed to get the body to fit.

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James - that would be great. Normally I try to work from an Isinglass or similar drawing, but for this cheap one-off I don't think its economical.

Cab too low - perfectly possible, though I haven't shortened it and it's the same height as the original D11 (not that that proves anything) I'm finding usable photos a bit thin on the ground, so the offer of a drawing is greatly appreciated.

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These pics show what is left of the Schools chassis to get the GBL  body to fit. It's a bit scary, but I seem to have managed to keep it running without removing anything critical. The leading bogie needs fitting, and I need to find a way to hide the gap below the footplate. Once I'm sure about the running properties I'll finish the cosmetic body changes. Thanks to James I now have a drawing as a guide.

At the moment, I'm sticking with the GBL tender, but if all goes well I'll see about fitting the correct one if I can find a more accurate one. I believe PDK will supply one, but at £70, it's not worth it for this project given the limitations of the donor (and the modeller)

 

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Hi  Rowanj, I'm enjoying following your build projects, it's interesting to see what can be done with the GBL models. A quick question if I may though, where did you source the resin cast you used for the GNR tender behind the K3/2? I'm looking to find one to put behind a proposed Gresley K2 project and I'm not very keen on building a brass kit

 

Thanks

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This is the re-profile necessary to the front frames. I think I've captured the shape but any GC experts who think differently, -I'd be glad to hear from you. Next stage is to remove the valance which had gone by BR days. After that, it's the usual cosmetics - handrails, whistle,etc.

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The D10 all but complete. Cabside numbers and etched nameplates are on order from Modelmasters. I'm going to try to weather the loco pretty heavily to match the photo I have of the prototype in it's last few months of 1955, which will tone down the lining, amongst other things.

I did try to get a drawing from the kit manufacturers, but am grateful to James for the helpful plan he sent me. No doubt there are errors and omissions, but for the price of the dodgy chassis and the original D11 donor I'm not unhappy to have finished up with a reasonable copy of a loco unlikely ever to see the RTR light of day.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi John as per my pm....can't post this on main GBL thread...however if you don't mind will show here and outline the work done. This model was originally LMS 7751, a ks kit of the LNWR coal tank. It was in the shsnd section at my local model shop. It looked a nicely made body, and would normally have been put in the kit built section...at a far higher price. I enquires why and was informed it's a non runner. An inspection revealed an original ks chassis and very poor pick up arrangements. Feeds to the motor wires revealed a powerful and free running loco. I can fix this says I let me have it a couple of days and on its return it can take its rightful place...and price. You may wonder why not buy it...well have any number of projects courtesy of GBL...my British Railways layout is based on a real station on the ex Midland lines in Brum....this loco would have been as likely to run through as 60113 Gt Northern. I have a model of that loco ...I digress. The coal tank whilst on my workbench suffered a calamity...so I had to buy it anyway..... It has gad two home made chassis that whilst free running contrived to derail, a combination of my poor track at certain points...and a very heavy body. The loco not mine...ok maybe both..

A comet collet 060 chassis..same wheelbase...markits gearbox and mashima motor plus modern markits wheels have now produced..after careful weighting with lead a well balanced powerful little loco.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi John county as shown in main thread...Hornby 8f firebox added plus all the bits and pieces shown...the double chimney from 247 was the bigger GWR one...so out came razor saw and dremel...off went the capuchon ...and here we are...still being worked on. The second picture shows what will be my next project...a class a2/2 60501 coco of the North hopefully using the GBL peppercorn as a donor. The bit modelled is the front frames out of plasticard...no waiting for the said peppercorn to materialise...best wishes Brian......all these from a midland man! post-23587-0-30716400-1436374848.jpgpost-23587-0-52152700-1436374866.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

With the permission of my friend rowanj....I will endeavour to produce a passable a2/2 Pacific from a selection of GBL and Hornby spare parts...I was going to use the forthcoming peppercorn....regardless of its pedigree...ie trix...the work required ...well I've chosen another route. The photo is the result of my latest endeavours.....the cab is from GBL v2...front of roof reduced hence the hole....rear of the firebox again from v2....like a nit I initially cut too much hence the filler piece....the rest of firebox is Hornby a3... The boiler and smokebox is v2... The front frames are home made....isinglass drawing and a number of text books providing reference....will if I may update progress on this blog....it is at this stage of any conversion you fear the outcome....post-23587-0-33920500-1437584115.jpg

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I intend to purchase the se finecast a2 chassis and extend the frames....a home brew attempt was not successful it's the 6ft 6 inch coupling rods...not commercial,y available...and the universal ones of rod jeep seem to have sold out...anyway she finecast it will be

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Now looking a bit more like my intended victim...John pointed out cock o the North has curved cab plates...mine are straight...so intend to model 50505 thane of Fife instead...believe she had a banjo done at some stage hence the temporary one still lots of fillerieces and filler..sanding etc to go but a bit more presentable...post-23587-0-74314400-1437667940.jpg

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