Are you a JMRI user ?

[ThePurplePrimer]

Hi guys

 

I have a prodigy 2 advance and I am interested in the possibility of computer control for my future layout.

 

It seems that plenty is possible with JMRI but it seems that the only support 'forum' is via Yahoo groups.

 

This is a problem for me as I don't like the yahoo groups system at all and if that is my only avenue to discuss ideas and get support then I don't think I will bother.

 

So I wonder how many rmweb members use it and think it is worth looking into

[Glorious NSE]

I think JMRI is excellent, I use Decoderpro and Operations - but not the functionality that you're looking at, so sadly I can't help with any queries on that! 

[cromptonnut]

I use it, on a laptop with a Lenz interface connected to my Lenz DCC equipment.  I've used it for throttles and some very basic "proof of concept" (I know it works but can I make it work) operating points etc.

 

I know you can set it up to work with a wireless router to control via a throttle app on a smartphone but that functionality , so far, eludes me.

 

A JMRI subforum on here would, I think, be useful.

[Nigelcliffe]

Hi guys

 

I have a prodigy 2 advance and I am interested in the possibility of computer control for my future layout.

 

It seems that plenty is possible with JMRI but it seems that the only support 'forum' is via Yahoo groups.

 

This is a problem for me as I don't like the yahoo groups system at all and if that is my only avenue to discuss ideas and get support then I don't think I will bother.

 

So I wonder how many rmweb members use it and think it is worth looking into

 

Yes, I use JMRI    (I designed a small part of it, wrote numerous decoder files and a tutorial on UK signalling).  

 

As for support, well its on Yahoo.   Yahoo has its problems, but when the list was created Yahoo was about the only game in town.  The volunteer JMRI developers (nobody gets paid to write it!) don't want to spend their life running around a dozen different forums trying to support things.    

If you need JMRI support, you'll have to overcome your Yahoo aversion (for what its worth, I have had a Yahoo test account for two or three years which has never been spammed, so spam originates somewhere other than well run Yahoo groups these days).

 

 

"Computer control" will depend on what you mean by the term. If you want the computer to know information about the state of the layout (for example where trains are located) so that the computer can then make decisions, then you'll need hardware other than that sold by MRC/Gaugemaster. This is possible, whilst keeping the MRC/Gaugemaster system to drive the trains.

 

 

 

I use it, on a laptop with a Lenz interface connected to my Lenz DCC equipment.  I've used it for throttles and some very basic "proof of concept" (I know it works but can I make it work) operating points etc.

 

I know you can set it up to work with a wireless router to control via a throttle app on a smartphone but that functionality , so far, eludes me.

 

A JMRI subforum on here would, I think, be useful.

 

If you asked on the Yahoo group someone would explain what to do.    Or, if attending the Warley show, the "Computer control of layouts" demonstration stand will be able to show you how. 

 

 

I haven't seen enough questions to suggest a local forum is required.  If you want a bug fixed, a new feature, a new decoder file, or anything needing the developers, it happens on Yahoo. 

 

- Nigel

[cromptonnut]

Fine that its on yahoo and people don't want to check several places to answer stuff but if we are here and dont use yahoo groups why is it less hassle for us to go there than for those that know enough and use both to have somewhere here?

[Oldddudders]

Hi guys

 

I have a prodigy 2 advance and I am interested in the possibility of computer control for my future layout.

 

It seems that plenty is possible with JMRI but it seems that the only support 'forum' is via Yahoo groups.

 

This is a problem for me as I don't like the yahoo groups system at all and if that is my only avenue to discuss ideas and get support then I don't think I will bother.

 

So I wonder how many rmweb members use it and think it is worth looking into

I am not a user, but am very well aware that it is free (!) and of very considerable use to many competent DCC operators. Several JMRI stalwarts - i.e. those who make it happen -  are also RMwebbers.

 

Everything I've heard over a number of years tells me you could look for a very long time to find anything better.

[ThePurplePrimer]

The software for free is of course great

 

The Prodigy needs a special dedicated cable to link it to the PC and that cable is around £50 so I thought it would be worth asking a few questions before I bought the cable.

[cromptonnut]

The equivalent Lenz unit is £124!!!

[boc]

Hi,

 

I'm experimenting with JMRI using a SPROG 3 for dcc output and an arduino for CMRI in/output. I appreciate that my way of doing things is not the simplest but it enables me to play with jmri and have physical stuff respond.

 

Having used JMRi for a few minutes here and there, I'm getting used to the terminology and nuances. I've only got as far as an automated (using scripting) back and forth track with a point that is unconnected to this track. I want to experiment more with sensors in due course.

 

Good luck with your efforts

 

Chris

[cromptonnut]

One of the key things with JMRI is that it can do as much or as little as you want it to (more or less).

 

One of the things I've found it useful for is operating functions on the chip higher than the buttons on my controller - not very often but sometimes there are sounds required up there.

 

Some use it for a 'mimic panel' with full route setting - very handy if you have a complicated station or junction, or want automatic signalling.

 

If you have a 6ft shunting plank, it may be a bit overkill   But it is free and very versatile, the only cost being the connector/interface (in your case £50) which won't depreciate that much in value if you decide it's not for you and you can just sell it on.

[Crosland]

Fine that its on yahoo and people don't want to check several places to answer stuff but if we are here and dont use yahoo groups why is it less hassle for us to go there than for those that know enough and use both to have somewhere here?

 

If you go "there" you stand a good chance of getting the ear of the developers if the question is more than something basic. Here you will be relying mainly on users, who may not understand the subtleties.

 

There's no reason you shouldn't set up a forum on RMWeb but I doubt it will ever offer the same level of expertise as jmri-users on Yahoo.

 

Yahoo v Forum debates can get quite heated

 

Andrew

[ThePurplePrimer]

Thanks for the replies

 

Hopefully there might at some point be enough of us interested in JMRI that Andy might consider it worthwhile for us to have a section on the forums.

 

I really dislike the way the Yahoo groups work - certainly when you consider it in comparison to the software used here ( plus the way the forums are managed )

[ThePurplePrimer]

The thing I would like to do is this ...

 

I have a Heljan DCC enabled turntable and I would like to have a number of spurs off of it ( let's say 12 ) that each has a loco in it. The exit to the turntable would lead to a longish straight. I would like to be able to press a button ( either physical or on a screen ) and have the turntable turn to that locos road - the loco enter the turntable and stop - the turntable turn to the exit road - the loco run along the straight - come back to the turntable and then park itself back in its road.

 

Then I could select another or the system could randomly select the next loco and repeat until I run out of tea/beer/wine

[cromptonnut]

This may give you some ideas... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78578-dcc-controlled-peco-turntable-project/

[Crosland]

Earlier this year I've re-subscribed again and offered to provide (capture) raw data for the JMRI dev's in order to reverse-engineer the communication between Roco's Z21 and their app's (Android and Apple).

 

JMRI is open source software that runs on mainstream desktop OSs. It is not an "app". The apps such as Engine driver and WiThrottle are provided by third parties and do not use any manufacturer specific protocol to communicate to the core JMRI code.

 

As with most open source software, features get added by someone who wants them. Clearly no one is currently interested in interfacing to the Z21

 

Andrew

[roundhouse]

I run JMRI on two touch screen all in one PC's on Banbury / Santa Barbara with track plan. Also use the wifi control on old ipods etc.

 

JMRI is used for turnout and route setting, more recently to control the signals.

 

Next stage is to use it for block detection which is partially working on Santa Barbara but Banbury is next so that we can tell if a platform is occupied (cant see platform 1 easily when sitting at normal operating positions) and eventually to control the signals

 

Very stable but occasionally we get a glitch but normally a restart of the PC sorts the issues out.

 

Whilst I am using JMRI I am not yet an expert by any means. It is quite daunting when first trying to use JMRI but I have learnt to use it in various stages, initially just using it to programme and read decoders.

 

I am on the Yahoo JMRI group but dont regularly use it as just dont get the time to do so.

 

Its well worth learning though and is now to be used on all future DCC controlled layouts that I build.

Edited October 9, 2014 by roundhouse

[Revolution Mike]

A program that mimics that communication can easily interface with the Z21. If JMRI doesn't want (the ability) to do that, then I have no further interest in JMRI

 

This is such a strange statement - JMRI is open source software developed by individuals not by "JMRI". 

 

I can well believe that the current people developing it may not be interested in Z21, but if you are perhaps you should start developing the necessary code? It is a bit like saying no one wants to play with my toy so I'm going off to sulk. Isn't the point about Z21 that you don't or shouldn't need JMRI anyway?

 

Cheers, Mike

[ThePurplePrimer]

Hi Roundhouse

 

The block detection thing sounds very interesting - what do you need for the detectors themselves ?

[roundhouse]

Most of our group of friends use the Digitrax system so the following is based on experiences using this.

 

On Santa Barbara I have installed a Digitrax BDL168 which has 16 block detection sections (there are other block detection circuits). Its around £100 for this circuit board so not particularly cheap to do but I needed this in the scenic section to work the transponding for the Surroundtraxx sound system.

 

Bascially each track section is wired to each of the block sections terminals on the circuit board. The Board also needs to be set up with a unique ID address (all explained in the manual with the board).

 

Once wired up and with JMRI connected and track plan created in JMRI Panel Pro which is part of the same software (basically Decoder Pro to programme decoders nad Panel Pro to operate the layout)  then the individaul block addresses can be aded to the track plan which will then change colour when a loco (or anything else that picks up track power) enter a block section. From there you can then make JMRI do various tasks such as change signals set routes etc but that the next stage for me to start learning as I want ot be able to add automatic signal control and the stopping of trains if the signal is red or turnouts set against the train so that they dont derail.

Edited October 9, 2014 by roundhouse

[Nigelcliffe]

The Z21 communicates via the LAN. A program that mimics that communication can easily interface with the Z21. If JMRI doesn't want (the ability) to do that, then I have no further interest in JMRI

JMRI has some Z21 support (it was first added in one of the 3.9.x test releases). At the level you have offered assistance (code sniffing, etc.), then you may do better to join the JMRI-Developers mailing list and offer expertise there. JMRI is what users choose to contribute, what gets developed requires a mix of interest and ability to either write code, or explain what is required to someone who can write code.

 

With the missing documents relating to the legal case some years ago, did you email Bob Jacobsen to ask about them ?

 

 

- Nigel

[Phil S]

In response to a comment that the PC interface ('cable') for Prodigy cost 50GBP ...

The equivalent Lenz unit is £124!!!

An alternative Expressnet Interface (Serial version) is the OpenDCC kit for about 20 Euro - easily built in a short evening.

GCA139 RS232-XpressNet-Schnittstelle"  - and the protocol from Lenz is open.      (CromptonUK is quoting the current version with USB and network connections)

[Link from Open DCC pages > hardware kits > choose a supplier - I used Hanno Bolte] - usable for Roco and presumably Hornby sysytrems too amongst many others.

[FYI: Rocrail supports both the original Rocomotion (published interface), later MultiCentralePro (not for Wndows: Linux RaspberryPi, MaxOS), and Z21 (published protocol)

[PaulCheffus]

Besides, the yahoo "neo" web interface is appalling, totally useless piece of crap I can know, owning 3 yahoo groups (and seriously considering moving one to my own server, using the very software package yahoo uses (on a larger scale) to host this group myself, advert- and more importantly neo-free )

Hi

 

There in a nutshell is why I won't be visiting any of the Yahoo groups I used to be a member of.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[ThePurplePrimer]

The adventure begins

 

I ordered a USB cable for my Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance 2 and a DCC Concepts solenoid point motor decoder.

 

So far I have JMRI talking to the command station and I can control a loco with the JMRI on screen throttle

 

I had a quick play with wi throttle and It worked but I had two runaways that I couldn't stop so I will come back to that.

 

Next thing for me is to try and work out how to record a simple script - go forward - then stop - go backwards - and repeat

Have no idea where to start so this evening I need to start finding out how to do that

[boc]

I'm not sure about the recording of scripts, but you might be interested in some of the python script examples

If you try the back and forth example, which you can find here, http://jmri.org/jython/BackAndForth.py, or in the example folders of your jmri install it might give a flavour of how the script works.

 

When you run the script two sensors will be created in the sensor table and these can be used to test the change of direction. If you can decipher the python code, you may be able to remove the sensor references and have it work as you describe

 

Start forward at speed x

Wait for x secs

Stop

Wait for x secs

Start backwards speed x

Wait for x secs

Stop

Repeat

 

Chris

Edited October 14, 2014 by boc

[Nigelcliffe]

Next thing for me is to try and work out how to record a simple script - go forward - then stop - go backwards - and repeat

Have no idea where to start so this evening I need to start finding out how to do that

 

I'll save you some time... There is no easy mechanism to "record" things.

 

If you want automated running, then you need to start looking into "scripting" and/or "robot throttles".

 

For simple movements, "scripting" is the way forward, and there are examples in the JMRI distribution which will do simple back/forward actions.   

It would be reasonably easy to write a script (or two) which did the "park loco in roundhouse" feature which you described above. But I think it would be prone to errors without sensors to detect train position for stopping, particularly getting a loco from shed and placing it accurately on the turntable.  That means adding a sensor system, which means additional hardware (unlike some other DCC systems, MRC/Gaugemaster has no sensor / feedback capabilities). 

 

"Robot throttles" are, largely, for running when the software understands your layout, where the turnouts connect, where the sensors are located, etc..  But, for fully automated running, a layout needs lots of hardware (to detect the trains), and I'd suggest that other software may be better. 

 

 

 

Bear in mind that Gaugemaster/MRC support in JMRI is currently "test release", and making the code reliable needs users reporting issues found.  If issues are not reported, they don't get fixed.  If they are reported, they are usually addressed quickly.   

 

- Nigel