City-Link in Administration

[250BOB]

For a lot of the employees of City Link in multu-cultural Britain it was just another day

 

Not sure what you mean Graham............are you saying that a lot of their employees took it in their stride, and are not overly bothered....?????

[Jonboy]

I am sorry but I personally don't see why delivery of model trains/planes/DVDs/clothes or the millions of other cheap pieces of leisure toys and junk mail should be seen as an essential public service with a significant financial risk to the taxpayer.

 

A basic universal service delivering a couple of times a week for delivery of essential mail (bearing in mind the fact the internet is not universally accessible) such as utility bills, bank statements, possibly even the letters and cards that help people stay in touch and the essentials of delivering the democratic paradise we live in (voter registrations, tax demands and speeding tickets ) yes, but the modern haulage business no...

[Graham Walters]

Not sure what you mean Graham............are you saying that a lot of their employees took it in their stride, and are not overly bothered....?????

 

No what I am saying is that for people of other religions, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist etc, Dec 25th is just another day in the calendar.

 

There is never a good time to be made redundant, but implying that Christmas is worse than any other day is a misconception in modern Britain, for some it may be the day before Diwali, or Ramadan.

[uax6]

Ok Jonboy I see your point but have a think about this: The USO has only got 5 years left to run on the Royal Mail. Now after that they are no-doubt going to try and find a way to make things cheaper for themselves (so more profits can be generated for the shareholders). So I give it ten years before anyone other than those that live in big towns and citys have to travel to somewhere else to pick up their mail. I don't just mean parcels, I mean ALL mail. This has started to happen in Canada, so I can see it happening here too.

 

I'm not looking forward to the bind of having to pick it up once a week.

 

I too belive that there are serious issues over the fact that 'services' are in private hands. I also belive that it is unrealistic for any Service to make a profit, if it makes a profit it is not a service. Hence Services should be in the taxpayers hands, and therefore not only subsidising each other, but also making an input into the Governments coffers.

 

Off high horse.

 

Andy G

[jjb1970]

I think it is important to differentiate between the top and bottom end of the market and not to conflate the likes of Hermes and Yodel with private, high quality operators which provide a first class (if not cheap) service.

As an individual I use Royal Mail as I find their prices acceptable (admittedly I do not send that many parcels or letters) and for all the whinges about them on the whole they are very reliable in my experience. At work we use other providers who provide an exceptional level of service but they are not cheap.

The universal service obligation is a good point to raise about Royal Mail, they could cut costs significantly if they were allowed to abandon this but would sociey support this and really would society benefit from losing a universal mail system? Yes, it is a form of subsidy carried by all post users but there is a real benefit to society from a universal postal service.

As an aside, I've often used taxis as an alternative to couriers, if we desperately needed a spare part and the costs of not getting it on time the costs of sending a taxi 300 or 400 miles is small change and very reliable.

[Graham Walters]

I am sorry but I personally don't see why delivery of model trains/planes/DVDs/clothes or the millions of other cheap pieces of leisure toys and junk mail should be seen as an essential public service with a significant financial risk to the taxpayer.

 

A basic universal service delivering a couple of times a week for delivery of essential mail (bearing in mind the fact the internet is not universally accessible) such as utility bills, bank statements, possibly even the letters and cards that help people stay in touch and the essentials of delivering the democratic paradise we live in (voter registrations, tax demands and speeding tickets ) yes, but the modern haulage business no...

 

Royal Mail would love to deliver to rural area's only when profitable, but as is often said to postmen, "it is not up to the carrier to decide what is and isn't important mail", what may seem insignificant to you, in the shape of a model train, may be important to the customer, because he or she needs that model to complete a layout that is going on display at a show.

Royal Mail has only become a "financial risk to the tax payer" since deregulation, and now part of that risk has been removed by selling it off at bargain price, Royal Mail used to make money for the treasury, now it makes money for shareholders, which means less money going into the treasury to help pay the burgeoning benefits bill.

 

The USO states that delivery of all mail received in delivery offices should be attempted on the date received to the address specified, that means that in places like Scotland and the outer highlands, some posties have to travel over a mile between calls.

[jjb1970]

I still think this is a market that Rail could compete in. Not normal packages or mail (unless they operate trains for such traffic on behalf of somebody like Royal Mail) but there is still a small but lucrative market for time critical packages and that market will pay whatever it takes. If I could take a package to say Milton Keynes Central, hand it over to the railway and then tell a guy in say Aberdeen to be at the station at xx:yy hrs many outfits would pay dearly. I have a couple of times paid for staff to have a free dat trip to do the same thing but then have had to pay for their time in addition to a turn up and go train ticket.

[Graham Walters]

Ok Jonboy I see your point but have a think about this: The USO has only got 5 years left to run on the Royal Mail. Now after that they are no-doubt going to try and find a way to make things cheaper for themselves (so more profits can be generated for the shareholders). So I give it ten years before anyone other than those that live in big towns and citys have to travel to somewhere else to pick up their mail. I don't just mean parcels, I mean ALL mail. This has started to happen in Canada, so I can see it happening here too.

 

I'm not looking forward to the bind of having to pick it up once a week.

 

I too belive that there are serious issues over the fact that 'services' are in private hands. I also belive that it is unrealistic for any Service to make a profit, if it makes a profit it is not a service. Hence Services should be in the taxpayers hands, and therefore not only subsidising each other, but also making an input into the Governments coffers.

 

Off high horse.

 

Andy G

 

I would be interested to know where you got this snippet of information from, as far as I am aware the USO is cast in stone, unless Royal Mail should cease to exist, there was an attempt several years ago for RM to disappear and become Consignia, in an attempt to get round the constrictions of the USO, the move was blocked by the then government.

 

Both the CWU and RM want to see a revision to the USO, to bring it into the 21st century, this move has also been blocked by OffCom, who see the USO as a vital service to the community, one of the reasons for Royal Mail failing to be sold off to a rival is the USO, companies like TNT and DHL ( the front runners) don't want to be tied to a document that insists they deliver to all postal addresses on a daily basis, they TNT and DHL would probably only offer a 3 day a week service to rural communities.

 

Moya Greene who is CEO of Royal Mail was responsible for streamlining Canada Post, by the introduction of neighbourhood boxes, to introduce this into the UK would need a change in the USO.

[uax6]

Was it not mentioned at the time of flogging the RM off that the USO would run for 6 years?

 

Andy G

[uax6]

Talking of sending parcels by trains, occasionly the TOC has posters delivered here by mistake. After phoning them up at the next station (We are unmanned) they always send someone in a car to pick them up, rather than getting the driver of the next one to pick it up while he's in the platform.......

 

Andy g

[Graham Walters]

Was it not mentioned at the time of flogging the RM off that the USO would run for 6 years?

 

Andy G

 

That bit hasn't been mentioned to us that are members of the CWU, RM employees have always been vocal in support of the USO, in rural areas it is not only a postal service that we offer, for a lot of old people Postmen are the only person they see on a daily basis. I myself on my walk have had to help out the old an disabled a few times, if hadn't of been calling, I don't know how long they would have been stuck.

[uax6]

That bit hasn't been mentioned to us that are members of the CWU, RM employees have always been vocal in support of the USO, in rural areas it is not only a postal service that we offer, for a lot of old people Postmen are the only person they see on a daily basis. I myself on my walk have had to help out the old an disabled a few times, if hadn't of been calling, I don't know how long they would have been stuck.

Which is why you work for a 'SERVICE' not a profit generating company, and should be in the public hands...

 

Andy G

 

BTW Wasn't City-Link first used by the Scottish Bus Compaines for their longer bus services?

[hayfield]

I might be old fashioned but I firmly hold to the belief that there are industries that should be run as a public service, not simply as a way to make profit.  The obvious ones are railways, energy & water utilities and telecommunications. I also class mail & parcel delivery in that category too.

 

Mark

 

 

Mark

 

In the past I would have disagreed with you and BT is a very strong reason why I would have said that. BUT with the way we are robbed solid every day by the energy firms which pretends to be competitive but is far from it with the generators holding us to ransom I am swaying to your side of the argument

 

Oil & Gas prices have tumbled and thanks to the supermarkets petrol and diesel prices have come down, but why are the Gas and Electric providers so quiet. If the prices had gone the other way prices would have increased weeks ago. Not too certain about the postal system though, but the Royal Mail should be allowed to charge commercial delivery companies a commercial rate for postal deliveries, which if you listen to the Royal Mail/unions seem not to be the case

[petethemole]

In Southampton City Link is a short haul bus service linking Central Station and the Isle of Wight Ferry terminal via the City Centre.

[Xerces Fobe2]

In Southampton City Link is a short haul bus service linking Central Station and the Isle of Wight Ferry terminal via the City Centre.

Are passengers labelled and sometimes left with the nearest business to the terminal?

[PhilJ W]

My understanding is that some of these private companies have been 'dumping' deliveries on to Royal Mail who have to deliver it because of USO. The obvious way to get round this is to let Royal Mail charge these companies a hefty sum for carrying out this service. It might well be that they do make a nominal charge. If the other companies complain about it give them the option of accepting USO or lumping it.

[Jonboy]

It is an interesting conundrum - both in my personal and work capacity it would make no difference at all if we only received post twice a week under a reformed USO. It may be slightly more inconvenient, but not overly so. Based on how often our neighbours seem to empty their often overflowing mail boxes (live in flat so have them in a cupboard in front of the block) I suspect I am not alone in this.

[jjb1970]

Oil & Gas prices have tumbled and thanks to the supermarkets petrol and diesel prices have come down, but why are the Gas and Electric providers so quiet. If the prices had gone the other way prices would have increased weeks ago. Not too certain about the postal system though, but the Royal Mail should be allowed to charge commercial delivery companies a commercial rate for postal deliveries, which if you listen to the Royal Mail/unions seem not to be the case

 

Whilst I am no fan boy for the electricity companies the price of electricity is a lot more complex than just looking at oil, gas and coal prices. There are various support mechanisms for renewable energy inflating prices, normally ill advised interventions by DECC and an aging infrastructure needing major investment. One reason that our electrical supply is so precarious is that companies do not want to invest in new plants as the return on investment is poor as well as there being so many subsidies to chase if they pump money into more windfarms. And the planning processes, government controls and environmental resistance to any and every form of generating electricity both inflates project costs massively and frankly can make investment plans not worth the trouble.The distribution companies are regulated. That may be an argument for government regulation/nationalisation to ensure that the electrical system is fit for purpose (although my concern there is that part of the reason it is such a mess in the first place is DECC) but it is not an argument against privatised electricity on the grounds that companies are profiteering.

[Bon Accord]

No what I am saying is that for people of other religions, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist etc, Dec 25th is just another day in the calendar.

 

There is never a good time to be made redundant, but implying that Christmas is worse than any other day is a misconception in modern Britain, for some it may be the day before Diwali, or Ramadan.

 

The UK population is majority white and of a Christian background (societal if not practising) who celebrate Christmas, as does just about every other religion even if it only boils down to the giving of presents and a gathering of family members during what is a national holiday period. Therefore to suggest that being made redundant on Christmas is no worse than other day I would say is a misconception on your part.

[hayfield]

Whilst I am no fan boy for the electricity companies the price of electricity is a lot more complex than just looking at oil, gas and coal prices.

 

 but it is not an argument against privatised electricity on the grounds that companies are profiteering.

 

 

Why then when their is a rise in oil price do the companies immediately increase prices, normally just before the period of high usage.

 

Then when they do decide to decrease prices, firstly we have to wait which takes us into the lowest usage period and the decrease is never as big as the increase. The companies are very clever by showing the retail part of their company never makes any money and hope we don't realise the massive profits made by the wholesale side. The retail part of the business should have no connections with the wholesale side, that would force competition between companies. Also the company providing the connections from power plants to houses/businesses should not be in a position to set their prices within that region.

 

Now they are holding us to ransom over the power plants, no wonder so many foreign companies want to own the businesses, their own countries do not let them abuse the power system as we do

[Graham Walters]

My understanding is that some of these private companies have been 'dumping' deliveries on to Royal Mail who have to deliver it because of USO. The obvious way to get round this is to let Royal Mail charge these companies a hefty sum for carrying out this service. It might well be that they do make a nominal charge. If the other companies complain about it give them the option of accepting USO or lumping it.

 

Royal Mail deliver other companies mail, what we call DSA ( Downstream Access) at a loss, this has to be subsidised by people buying stamps to use Royal Mails service, as part of the agreement set up by Adam Crozier, RM also has to treat ALL DSA mail as first class, irrespective of the amount charged.

 

When Yodel admitted that they were 10 days behind on deliveries for Christmas, RM had to pick it up, an extra 25000 packets a day, on top of the normal Christmas frenzy RM have to deal with, we also had to pick up extra's from DHL, UPS and TNT to ensure pre-Christmas delivery.

 

The point we ask is that if these companies fail to live up to the promises they make, why are they not penalised for it, RM gets fined by OFFCom for every late delivery of a guaranteed delivery, it is not a level playing field by any means when you only penalise one of the players.

 

If it were a level playing field and every courier had to abide by the rules set out by OFFCOM, and the USO, many more would go to the wall.

[Graham Walters]

The UK population is majority white and of a Christian background (societal if not practising) who celebrate Christmas, as does just about every other religion even if it only boils down to the giving of presents and a gathering of family members during what is a national holiday period. Therefore to suggest that being made redundant on Christmas is no worse than other day I would say is a misconception on your part.

I think  you need to wake up and smell the coffee !

 

Whilst the UK population may still be white, the religions of the working population, especially those in the low income sector is very mixed, without getting into a race argument, it is a known fact that most low paid work is taken on by immigrants, who in the main are not Christian.

 

I myself am English, and white English, but I'm not Christian or don't consider myself to be, as far as I am concerned I have no faith, I am what many consider "pagan" and celebrate this time of year as "Yuletide" and nothing else.

[Bon Accord]

I think  you need to wake up and smell the coffee !

 

Whilst the UK population may still be white, the religions of the working population, especially those in the low income sector is very mixed, without getting into a race argument, it is a known fact that most low paid work is taken on by immigrants, who in the main are not Christian.

 

I myself am English, and white English, but I'm not Christian or don't consider myself to be, as far as I am concerned I have no faith, I am what many consider "pagan" and celebrate this time of year as "Yuletide" and nothing else.

 

I stated in my previous post that not all are practising. Fact is that the overwhelming majority of the people of this nation (religious or not) celebrate Christmas in some form, even if it only goes as far as sharing presents and having a family gathering. Therefore this time of year IS more significant emotionally (and financially) than any other, accordingly events such as deaths or even redundancies are felt far more by the populace - that is the point.

[alastairq]

 

 

e those refused benefits or other claims for whatever reason.

 

 

Including those who are having to undergo a change of system...and where the transition has been mismanaged by DWP?....[Whose first response is to cease payment!!]

[Kickstart]

Hi

 

I have not had the (mis)fortune to have anything delivered by City Link for quite a few years. Service wise they were pretty poor (although Yodel seem worse - a 3~4 day delivery at the start of December took 12 days) and picking things up from their depot was a nightmare.

 

At work we use DPD, and when I have had deliveries from them they do seem to be fairly good.

 

However for us the big problem with many of the courier companies is that the local depots are in Stoke. Hence any time we need to get something from the depot is over a 30 mile round trip (and as we both work, unless the item is left with a neighbour it is likely we will have to get it from a depot). The advantage of RM for us is that we can pick the items up in town (although that is getting worse as we now have to wait until the following day to pick items up).

 

All the best

 

Keith