peco track becoming brittle

[banburysaint]

I have my layout in the garage which while insulated is not heated except when I m modelling. I have had several pieces of peco setrack disintegrate where the plastic becomes brittle, and the rails are not held in gauge. I have binned the affected track pieces and replaced them, but today I have noticed some new areas (typically on my helix spiral so very hard to get at). Has anyone had a similar problem, know the cause, be able to offer a solution? The track has been in place around 3 years and was bought new.

 

Thanks in advance

[HLT 0109]

I, too, am surprised that Peco track has become brittle.  I am very familiar with Hornby track doing so.  If replacing again, I recommend you use Peco flexitrack.

[bécasse]

Have you tried ringing Peco for advice? They are usually very helpful.

[ohanlonmartin]

Haven't had any Peco track become brittle and all I use I standard code 100 set track points and their flexi track, however in a foolish attempt to save a few bob I once (and once only) bought a box of Bachmann flexi track.

 

The quality of the Bachmann track is rubbish compared to Peco, the plastic is much stiffer and very prone to breaking of sleepers, the amount of flex in the length of track is very poor and if you need to slide some sleepers along the rail it is well nigh impossible to get a decent finish

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Definitely contact Peco for advice, once the office is open. Their Streamline product is specifically made to stand up to outdoor use and has proved more than up to the job, the track base resisting UV and heat degradation very well. I have forty year old Streamline still in service after long term outdoor use, and now in an unheated outbuilding. Whether the same applies to their set track I don't know.

[The Stationmaster]

I've got some Streamline track which is nearer 50 years old than 40 years old and which has been stored in attics, and now a garage, since it was lifted from the last layout it served on - when I looked at possibly using some of it a while back it was in good condition apart from a bit of tarnishing.  I have similar age Farish Formoway track in regular use on a module and it is as good as new in running terms. 

 

So it sounds as if it might be some sort of specific environment which is causing the problem and, as others have already said, I think you should contact Peco for advice.

[hayfield]

Am I correct in thinking that the Peco "set track" is made from a stiffer type of plastic than the "Streamline" track.

 

Was any of the track which has been affected been exposed to direct sunlight through a window, either effects of UV light or heat may have caused the damage

[TheWeatheringMan]

Am I correct in thinking that the Peco "set track" is made from a stiffer type of plastic than the "Streamline" track.

 

Was any of the track which has been affected been exposed to direct sunlight through a window, either effects of UV light or heat may have caused the damage

Hi,

John (Hayfield) is correct in that 'setrack' is made from a different plastic to 'streamline'.

We used some 'setrack' pieces on our 'Thomas and Friends' layout as it was spare and had to replace it with 'streamline' after a few months due to the reasons below.

Although I dont know if this will apply in your case our problem was that the 'setrack' was effected by solvents within glues used within the scenery - in one case we noticed a white 'stressing' had occured near where we has glued 'grass' down with an impact adhesive. On closer checking the 'setrack' base had slightly begun to break up due to the solvent action - in this case not by actual contact but by vapour action.

 

As other posters have mentioned Peco products are very high quality and long lived and for example 'streamline' can and will serve for donkey's years (point springs excepted sometimes, but these are easily replaced and free from Peco if needed) without problems.

In our case we were using the 'setrack' outside its intended use so the problem we suffered was of our own making not any fault of Peco or the product.

Perhaps it might be worth checking that you havn't suffered the same.

A telephone call to Peco Technical Advice Bureaux (fabulous name so rooted in the good old days of the hobby)would, as advised, be very well worth while.

Regards

[TheWeatheringMan]

I've got some Streamline track which is nearer 50 years old than 40 years old and which has been stored in attics, and now a garage, since it was lifted from the last layout it served on - when I looked at possibly using some of it a while back it was in good condition apart from a bit of tarnishing.  I have similar age Farish Formoway track in regular use on a module and it is as good as new in running terms. 

 

So it sounds as if it might be some sort of specific environment which is causing the problem and, as others have already said, I think you should contact Peco for advice.

Hi Mike,

Lovely to hear you mention 'Formoway' - i've often wished it had continued and modernised as I always felt it superior (particularly the pointwork)to the competition of the day.

Formoway points convinced me of the benefits of 'live frog' back in the 60's and i've never changed my thoughts since.

I have two yards of unused Formoway in my workshop (sitting on a shelf and used to store items on) that I just cant bring myself to fix down in a layout - even in a fiddle yard.

Regards

[TheSignalEngineer]

I recently scrapped a layout built for my son in 1976. Sost of the items like the card buildings, the sleepers on Hornby points and plastic foam used in the scenery had degraded badly but the Peco Streamline used on the plain line was still OK despite having been in a garage for some years. The Airfix/Dapol buildings and Peco Level Crossing have been salvaged and will probably appear on the layout due to be built soon for my grandsons. 

 

Your problem sounds like degradation due to a number of possible causes, such as heat or UV, leeching of solvents in glues or paints or polymer migration between different types of plastic.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Until the OP replies re whether or not the set-track et al. has - or has not - been subjected to UV, we are all shooting in the dark.

 

I have noted that, in the distant past, Peco set-track doesnt seem to have the same make-up as the Peco streamline range, in terms of plastic and grades thereof, and thus the longevity of streamline.

 

And yet, sadly problems with Peco streamline track in terms of degradation (sometimes quite rapid) is more common than many would think, I know of 6 or so UK based layouts - in various gauges - whereby this has been a problem, allegedly, when using Peco track (I cannot comment re. any contamination, yet the owners stated that there was none present, in terms of wood preservatives etc.). When Peco were approached, by various individuals, the company was perplexed by the issue. BTW Peco streamline track is, we are reliably informed, designed for outdoor usage (in most, if not all, of the popular gauges), so thus is, or should be, UV stable.

 

There was also a piece in a recent BRM about the issue too on, IIRC, an 'O' gauge garden railway.

 

I have to say though that our H&BLR Peco (SM32) track has been down over 12 years now, with no such problems and we have only had to replace two chairs on a check rail - due to wear and tear. The H&BLR also includes Peco's SM32 set-track curves and these have lasted well (touch wood).

 

First thoughts - because most of these aforementioned layouts were garden-railways - was of a UV stability issue, yet as the OP's layout is, in effect, indoors, this shouldnt be an issue, but contamination and UV through sky-lights, should be considered in the first instance (yet may not be the cause/relevant).

 

Some have noted that the original colouration of the sleeper base/web (streamline track) is key in the other cases, therefore those with dark brown shiny webbing seem okay, if the track webbing looks 'prototypical' ie light brown/grey with a matt finish then this seems best avoided as the track will, more than likely, fail. How do I know? We had some fail - outdoors - within a week/ten days of laying and this was of a lighter colour (this track was purchased from a Peco retailer and collected at a show, and we held it in stock for a while before using - it was stored indoors away from sunlight and the like in it's original packaging, but of course I cannot comment about how the retailer stored the track as such is unknown, but the packaging showed no signs of contamination/damage etc). In regard to our challenges and the 6 or so layouts mentioned previously, IMHO there could be something wrong with the 'mix' of the plastic in certain batches of streamline - I have some experience of plastics, as my uncles and father, worked in the industry, yet I am not an expert and thus could be wrong in regard to the this aspect of the matter. Either that or there could be fake track on the market??????? (but I doubt it).

 

I am a big fan of Peco products and by and large their products and quality control is superb, my suggestion therefore, is always check the track (streamline), by looking in the box, before purchase, so as to check the 'colour' and finish - sorry that I cant be more scientific than that (until perhaps Peco respond to the OP).

 

Hope that the above helps to shed some light on the matter.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

 

PS Track could be sprayed with eg. Vallejo UV stable waterproof matt acrylic varnish if using set-track near to a window as this may help to protect it.

[Silver Sidelines]

Just for the record I too have used Peco Streamline for over 30 years indoors pinned directly to chipboard and fibre board without any damaging degredation.  Where Streamline has been reused and bent to a sharp radius I have had the rail slice through some of the chairs.  Easily sorted by sliding on a new section of sleepering.  I am still using some old points from the 1980s.  The only issue being that the frog spacing on the early turnouts was made to accomodate Triang products and now needs the addition of a shim for the latest Bachmann rolling stock.  I do believe Peco warn against the use of solvent based paints coming in contact with the sleepering.  For this reason I used a water based adhesive for ballasting.  On the same theme I would not be using solvents for track cleaning.

 

Regards

 

Ray

[d_c_b]

My late father and I moved to N Gauge in the mid 70s. Our layout has moved house, been altered to fit two new locations, and still has flexi track and point work that date back to that era. I've not seen any degradation in the plastic, even on the oldest sections of track.

 

We either used wallpaper paste or PVA glue for a lot of our scenics. Not knowingly had any solvent based products near the track.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Just for the record I too have used Peco Streamline for over 30 years indoors pinned directly to chipboard and fibre board without any damaging degredation.  Where Streamline has been reused and bent to a sharp radius I have had the rail slice through some of the chairs.  Easily sorted by sliding on a new section of sleepering.  I am still using some old points from the 1980s.  The only issue being that the frog spacing on the early turnouts was made to accomodate Triang products and now needs the addition of a shim for the latest Bachmann rolling stock.  I do believe Peco warn against the use of solvent based paints coming in contact with the sleepering.  For this reason I used a water based adhesive for ballasting.  On the same theme I would not be using solvents for track cleaning.

 

Regards

 

Ray

Hi Ray,

 

Another interesting thought about not using solvents for track-cleaning as many people, I suspect, do.

 

The only solvent I would use are those specifically designed for plastics/plastic based track.

 

On outdoor layouts such is often not an issue as eg with SM32 track power is not used.

 

We didnt get the chance to clean the track on our O gauge layout, or run anything either before the track failed, as it happened within days whilst building the line.

 

ATVB

 

CME

[The Stationmaster]

Hi Mike,

Lovely to hear you mention 'Formoway' - i've often wished it had continued and modernised as I always felt it superior (particularly the pointwork)to the competition of the day.

Formoway points convinced me of the benefits of 'live frog' back in the 60's and i've never changed my thoughts since.

I have two yards of unused Formoway in my workshop (sitting on a shelf and used to store items on) that I just cant bring myself to fix down in a layout - even in a fiddle yard.

Regards

I always thought it much more realistic than Streeamline so had more of it on my layout than the Peco product.  I recovered much of it when that layout was scrapped and have hung onto it - eventually using some in the module we built for the SWAG modular layout at Captain Kernow's great event at Taunton so it can still be seen once a year in use down there.  I much preferred the options offered with Formoway points - apart from the difficulty of getting something through them without stalling, an excellent advert for live frogs as you say!

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Mike

 

Yes I too bought some yard lengths of Formoway because of the 'better' sleeper size and spacing.

.. apart from the difficulty of getting something through them without stalling, an excellent advert for live frogs as you say!

However a bit of rose tinted nostalgia?  I think the points blades were made in one piece with no 'hinge'. Code 100 rail is strong stuff and as such the thin plastic tie bar was not fit for purpose. I had to replaced the tie bar on my only two points within weeks of purchase with thin ply - I guess printed circuit board might have been another option.

 

Ray

[The Stationmaster]

Hello Mike

 

Yes I too bought some yard lengths of Formoway because of the 'better' sleeper size and spacing.

However a bit of rose tinted nostalgia?  I think the points blades were made in one piece with no 'hinge'. Code 100 rail is strong stuff and as such the thin plastic tie bar was not fit for purpose. I had to replaced the tie bar on my only two points within weeks of purchase with thin ply - I guess printed circuit board might have been another option.

 

Ray

I only ever had one break Ray - the others seemed quite happy being bashed around by H&M solenoids although the ends of the 'tiebar' did give up the ghost on some.

[Fat Controller]

I only ever had one break Ray - the others seemed quite happy being bashed around by H&M solenoids although the ends of the 'tiebar' did give up the ghost on some.

You used to be able to get purpose-built tie-bars for replacements made of GRP (not Paxolin). They had two hollow rivets at the ends for the operating pin from the point motor to engage in, and a further pair to solder the point blades to. I think they may have been manufactured by Scaleway.

[TheWeatheringMan]

You used to be able to get purpose-built tie-bars for replacements made of GRP (not Paxolin). They had two hollow rivets at the ends for the operating pin from the point motor to engage in, and a further pair to solder the point blades to. I think they may have been manufactured by Scaleway.

Hi,

They were the standard SMP 'Scaleway' tiebar as used in the point kits.

As far as I know they are still supplied in kits and available separatly.

Regards

[banburysaint]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will ring the peco technical advice bureaux when they return from their holiday next week. The garage has no windows so the track is not exposed to UV light. Also it's just pinned down and not glued, or painted. I will update the thread with the response from peco.

[melmerby]

I have my layout in the garage which while insulated is not heated except when I m modelling. I have had several pieces of peco setrack disintegrate where the plastic becomes brittle, and the rails are not held in gauge. I have binned the affected track pieces and replaced them, but today I have noticed some new areas (typically on my helix spiral so very hard to get at). Has anyone had a similar problem, know the cause, be able to offer a solution? The track has been in place around 3 years and was bought new.

 

Thanks in advance

My layout is in a garden office which again is not heated unless I'm there.

The temperature drops to around freezing at times and the track (all Peco Streamline 00 Code 75) does not become brittle.

Even at 0 degrees the flexi track is still that - flexible!

 

Keith

[melmerby]

Hello Mike

 

Yes I too bought some yard lengths of Formoway because of the 'better' sleeper size and spacing.

However a bit of rose tinted nostalgia?  I think the points blades were made in one piece with no 'hinge'. Code 100 rail is strong stuff and as such the thin plastic tie bar was not fit for purpose. I had to replaced the tie bar on my only two points within weeks of purchase with thin ply - I guess printed circuit board might have been another option.

 

Ray

Still got some Formoway track and points. I was advised to change the tie bar by the guy in the shop I bought them from.

IIRC all the switch rails and frog were tied together, polarity was changed as the tie-bar moved (it had a contact surface underneath)

 

A good mod was to remove the "tin" frog and stub tracks and replace with a rail built frog.

 

Keith

[SilverF1]

I'll be interested in the outcome of the OP's problem.

 

I agree with others about the longevity of Peco Streamline track.  Some 30 years ago, I built a layout in my then loft and glued the track in place with Evostik.  Use too much, it eats into the plastic, being solvent based. Use too little , the track doesn't stick down well.  I moved house a couple of years later, the baseboards and track survived the move.  The new house didn't have a suitable space to re-erect the layout, so it has sat in my unheated garage loft since. A waste I know.

 

Roll on 26 years and I've decided to build a new layout in a shed.  The old boards have warped, the track still intact.  I pulled one baseboard out to test some locos on, and all fine after I cleaned the rail tops. Enter my three year old grandson, while I wasn't looking, and he wrenches a metre length of track off the board.  Intact.  No signs of brittleness and still flexible despite being glued with Evostik originally.  So I'm surprised that Peco Setrack would succumb to brittleness after only 3 years even if the plastic is to a different formula.

[TheWeatheringMan]

I'll be interested in the outcome of the OP's problem.

 

I agree with others about the longevity of Peco Streamline track.  Some 30 years ago, I built a layout in my then loft and glued the track in place with Evostik.  Use too much, it eats into the plastic, being solvent based. Use too little , the track doesn't stick down well.  I moved house a couple of years later, the baseboards and track survived the move.  The new house didn't have a suitable space to re-erect the layout, so it has sat in my unheated garage loft since. A waste I know.

 

Roll on 26 years and I've decided to build a new layout in a shed.  The old boards have warped, the track still intact.  I pulled one baseboard out to test some locos on, and all fine after I cleaned the rail tops. Enter my three year old grandson, while I wasn't looking, and he wrenches a metre length of track off the board.  Intact.  No signs of brittleness and still flexible despite being glued with Evostik originally.  So I'm surprised that Peco Setrack would succumb to brittleness after only 3 years even if the plastic is to a different formula.

 

Hi,

An interesting story indeed and absolute proof of the longevity of 'Streamline' if ever there was one.

This really does add more strength to the suggestion that the OP's 'Setrack' has suffered from some outside influence that has caused the damage.

The only other option that seems possible is a faulty batch of plastic - but it must be said that the quality control at Peco is very tight indeed and i'd be very surprised if that did turn out to be the cause.

 

This really is something that we would all be pleased to know the answer to, if only to make sure it doesn't happent to us.

I mentioned in an earlier post the problem we suffered on our 'Thomas' layout - the answer here was self evident but the OP's problem is definatly one to know the cause of.

Regards

 

Edit to add,

 

Could there be any possibilty that some 'rogue' or counterfeit track has reached the market I wonder.

I have a distant memory of something like this happening back in the 70's and although its now only a dim memory something makes me think it involved essentially unorthorised pointwork reaching the market in plastic bag packaging rather than the proper card packaging.

[banburysaint]

I have sent off the email to Peco this evening, together with a few photos to illustrate. I do actually still have the peco box the track came in as i ended up buying a whole box for the helix, so this may help Peco to advise on the batch in case its a problem with the production. I will advise of the reply in due course. Its all very odd as i still have track from my first layout (1982) and that is still going strong!