Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[Barry O]

Can you het shorter cables? Coiling them up can introduce some "loop" problems.

 

 

Pf course you could see sense and change to Digitraxx or another true DCC system

 

Baz

[Stubby47]

I'd hate to think what would happen to the track though if the trap was ever used to stop a runaway.

Trying to spread the wheels either side of standard gauge rails - something's got to give.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Stubby47

[5BarVT]

11 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

I'd hate to think what would happen to the track though if the trap was ever used to stop a runaway.

Trying to spread the wheels either side of standard gauge rails - something's got to give.

That’s how they work, that’s why M&E types hate them, that’s why track engineer hates them.   Driving them is messy, that’s what the signal engineer hates them . . .

:-)

But they look good when modelled,

Paul.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

That’s how they work, that’s why M&E types hate them, that’s why track engineer hates them.   Driving them is messy, that’s what the signal engineer hates them . . .

:-)

But they look good when modelled,

Paul.

The first derailment I ever went to in my own right as on-call engineer was at Midcalder Junction. A class 40 had run off at a catch point that hadn't been clipped up while working wrong line in a possession. By the time I got there, 18 inches of snow had fallen and we couldn't see the rails at all. I suggested to the driver that he very gently reversed the loco to see what happened. If it didn't work we wouldn't really be any worse off. He did, and the loco went straight back on the way it had come off, thank goodness. Back to the car for a warm up and drive home to bed for what remained of the night...

 

As an aside, the first time I met the late Richard Chown was in the middle of the night at a derailment at Benhar Junction on the Shotts line.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

Can you het shorter cables? Coiling them up can introduce some "loop" problems.

 

 

Pf course you could see sense and change to Digitraxx or another true DCC system

 

Baz

Yes, that's why I think straightening them out might be a good idea. If I had some spare plugs and knew how to crimp them on then I could shorten them, but I haven't and I don't.

 

NCE cables come in standard lengths of 7, 12 and 40 ft.

[5BarVT]

26 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

As an aside, the first time I met the late Richard Chown was in the middle of the night at a derailment at Benhar Junction on the Shotts line.

Benhar: horrible place to get to!  Emergency crossovers remained long after the junction went.  If detection was lost it was so time consuming getting them clipped up and later fixed.  Gone now with Motherwell North scheme, but I have a feeling that in prior to that they were left clipped N so that special instructions allowed talk past without anyone needing to get out on site.

I got to know Richard in Railtrack days but didn’t know he was a modeller.  Last time I saw him was at a Perth exhibition where he was demonstrating narrow gauge stock building.

Paul.

[St Enodoc]

4 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Benhar: horrible place to get to!  Emergency crossovers remained long after the junction went.  If detection was lost it was so time consuming getting them clipped up and later fixed.  Gone now with Motherwell North scheme, but I have a feeling that in prior to that they were left clipped N so that special instructions allowed talk past without anyone needing to get out on site.

I got to know Richard in Railtrack days but didn’t know he was a modeller.  Last time I saw him was at a Perth exhibition where he was demonstrating narrow gauge stock building.

Paul.

Not having seen him for more than 10 years, I had planned to visit Richard and play with Castle Rackrent during my last trip to Scotland in October 2017. Sadly, and shockingly, he passed away three months beforehand.

[5BarVT]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I had planned to visit Richard and play with Castle Rackrent during my last trip to Scotland in October 2017.

I think it might have been that June that I saw him.

Paul.

[5BarVT]

Alleged non-mechanical engineer here with a starter for 10 on Clive's wide to gauge traps.

It's an extension of St.E's double slip mechanism adjusted to get opposite pull/push on each tie bar. 

It will all be a bit floppy, so something to hold the black drive piece vaguely in place whilst allowing it to slop about to work may be needed.  The idea is that as the long travel drive is pushed up one tie bar will eventually reach the rail and then act as a pivot to push the other rail home.  Opening will require some equivalent end stops (below ground).

I use Tortoise (other slo-mo machines available) and I wondered if the clunk of a solenoid might be too strong, but by using a spring wire to increase the travel, the forces should be suitably reduced.  I've shown an H&M crank as that's the type of solenoid motor in my 'no longer used' box. 

Paul.

[Stubby47]

Another idea is to use a servo, with the horn horizontal and the pivot point between the two tie bars.

 

The two ends of the horn will move different ways, opening or closing both blades.

[Clive Mortimore]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That's the one. I'll get my thinking cap on. If I've got this right,the two tiebars are the two rightmost of the three timbers with holes. Is that right?

Yes

[Tallpaul69]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

As regular readers will know, I like parcels trains and I like trains with a mixture of liveries (not necessarily on the same coach though, Clive).

 

Here is a nice combination of the two, the 1540 Friday Penzance to Paddington Parcels (train 108).

 

From the left we have:

 

7905, a Replica Modified Hall with a replacement Bachmann chassis;

S2367S, an ancient Tri-ang GUV smartened up with the Roxey Mouldings detailing kit;

W124480, a Bachmann ex-GWR 12T van;

E70448E, a Hornby ex-LNER full brake; and

W81205, a Bachmann BR Mk1 full brake.

 

Eventually there will be two more vans at the head of this train, a Westdale or MTK - can't tell which - K40 full brake; and the scratchbuilt M15 70ft newspaper van that I picked up on eBay a while ago.

 

Behind the parcels train, in platform 1, is the 1110 Swansea - Penzance, in charge of 83G's 6934 Beachamwell Hall - Bachmann of course (train 107). The train is a mixed bag of Hornby Colletts and Hawksworths, with an Airfix Centenary Brake Second to bring up the rear.

 

They say copying is the sincerest form of flattery, so I hope you won't mind if I nick your formation of the 1540 (Friday) Penzance to Paddington?

Mind you, my version will be RTR stock, I haven't got any suitable kit built (or unbuilt!) bogie parcels vans!

 

When I've decided what I'll use I'll post a pic.

 

Keep smiling

Cheers

Paul

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Alleged non-mechanical engineer here with a starter for 10 on Clive's wide to gauge traps.

It's an extension of St.E's double slip mechanism adjusted to get opposite pull/push on each tie bar. 

It will all be a bit floppy, so something to hold the black drive piece vaguely in place whilst allowing it to slop about to work may be needed.  The idea is that as the long travel drive is pushed up one tie bar will eventually reach the rail and then act as a pivot to push the other rail home.  Opening will require some equivalent end stops (below ground).

I use Tortoise (other slo-mo machines available) and I wondered if the clunk of a solenoid might be too strong, but by using a spring wire to increase the travel, the forces should be suitably reduced.  I've shown an H&M crank as that's the type of solenoid motor in my 'no longer used' box. 

Paul.

 

10 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

Another idea is to use a servo, with the horn horizontal and the pivot point between the two tie bars.

 

The two ends of the horn will move different ways, opening or closing both blades.

You guys have beaten me to it.

 

What I had in mind was a T-shaped crank, with the top of the T parallel to the rails. Each end of the top of the T is attached to one of the tiebars and there is a pivot at the middle of the T, roughly in line with the timber in between the tiebars. The tail of the T has a hole for the motor to drive it, with the drive parallel to the rails rather than perpendicular.

 

Stu, the geometry of this is identical to your servo horn idea, just a different drive method.

 

Paul, not sure that yours works. You need to reverse the direction somehow, which yours, and my double slip equalising lever, doesn't. Again, a pivot pin on the timber between the two tiebars should do it.

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

They say copying is the sincerest form of flattery, so I hope you won't mind if I nick your formation of the 1540 (Friday) Penzance to Paddington?

Mind you, my version will be RTR stock, I haven't got any suitable kit built (or unbuilt!) bogie parcels vans!

 

When I've decided what I'll use I'll post a pic.

 

Keep smiling

Cheers

Paul

Copy away Paul, but watch out because my diagrams are modified to keep my trains approximately 60% of the prototype length and to keep the actual number of individual coaches/vans I need down.

 

The full working for the 1540 Penzance is in Operation Cornwall from Xpress Publishing:

 

1. No dia Fruit D Plymouth - Reading

2. No dia Siphon G Taunton - Reading

3. No dia Siphon G Taunton - Paddington

4. 805A BG Taunton - Paddington

5. No dia Van Taunton - Paddington

6. No dia BG Taunton - Paddington

7. No dia Van (Churns) Taunton - Paddington

8. 818A BG Truro - Paddington

9. 808A BG Penzance - Paddington

10. 828A Van Penzance - Paddington

11. 820A Vanfit (Tobacco) Penzance - Paddington

12. 828A BG Penzance - Paddington

13. 821A BG Penzance - Paddington

14. 825A BG Penzance - Taunton (then to Birmingham Moor Street)

 

So for your layout you would only need vehicles 3 to 13 for the full-length train. If you need to shorten it, I'd drop a couple of BGs and vans.

 

Have fun!

[St Enodoc]

On 31/03/2020 at 21:50, St Enodoc said:

The latest on the "Freezing DCC" saga is that Mick at DCC Concepts has assured me that there is no surge current when first powering up the Cobalt point motors. From the symptoms, he thinks (and I can't disagree) that the problem probably lies in the command station/cab bus area.

 

I'm going to try two things in the short term. The first is to fit an RC filter at the end of the accessory bus to clean up any odd spikes or harmonics. In the early days I fitted one but received wisdom was that I didn't need it, only for the track bus, so I took it out. Nevertheless I'm going to put it back.

 

The second thing is to add a 12V dc regulated feed to the UTP nearest the command station. I shouldn't need one here, as it is only 12 ft from the command station, but this particular UTP also feeds the Penzance Mini Panel and the RB02 wireless unit, as well as the rest of the layout (the second UTP, 40 ft from the first, already has a 12V feed as recommended by NCE).

 

Neither of these things will do any harm and might do some good.

 

If not, we'll need to scratch our collective heads, including those in the DCC area here and on the NCE groups.io forum, harder.

 

23 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I've had another thought (that's what WFH can do to you). The cab bus cables to the Mini Panels are longer than they need to be, so I've just coiled the excess length up. I might straighten them out and lose the excess length under the baseboards instead.

 

I'll try these three things separately, otherwise I won't know which (if any) fixes the problem.

The nice man from Australia Post delivered a 12V dc power pack from Jaycar today, so tomorrow I'll be able to supply auxiliary power to both UTPs.

 

Watch this space.

[Ashley Bridge]

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Copy away Paul, but watch out because my diagrams are modified to keep my trains approximately 60% of the prototype length and to keep the actual number of individual coaches/vans I need down.

 

The full working for the 1540 Penzance is in Operation Cornwall from Xpress Publishing:

 

1. No dia Fruit D Plymouth - Reading

2. No dia Siphon G Taunton - Reading

3. No dia Siphon G Taunton - Paddington

4. 805A BG Taunton - Paddington

5. No dia Van Taunton - Paddington

6. No dia BG Taunton - Paddington

7. No dia Van (Churns) Taunton - Paddington

8. 818A BG Truro - Paddington

9. 808A BG Penzance - Paddington

10. 828A Van Penzance - Paddington

11. 820A Vanfit (Tobacco) Penzance - Paddington

12. 828A BG Penzance - Paddington

13. 821A BG Penzance - Paddington

14. 825A BG Penzance - Taunton (then to Birmingham Moor Street)

 

So for your layout you would only need vehicles 3 to 13 for the full-length train. If you need to shorten it, I'd drop a couple of BGs and vans.

 

Have fun!

I’ve just whiled away half an hour imagining how they made up the whole train. Would no 14 have been at the front and dropped at Taunton while no’s 2 3 4 5 6&7 were hung on the back of no 8 , attached at Truro?
My late Father was involved with dispatching the Sunday newspapers from Paddington in the ‘80s, that made for some fun and lots of bad language ( from the printers side) when editions ran late.

 

 Rich 

[St Enodoc]

39 minutes ago, Ashley Bridge said:

I’ve just whiled away half an hour imagining how they made up the whole train. Would no 14 have been at the front and dropped at Taunton while no’s 2 3 4 5 6&7 were hung on the back of no 8 , attached at Truro?
My late Father was involved with dispatching the Sunday newspapers from Paddington in the ‘80s, that made for some fun and lots of bad language ( from the printers side) when editions ran late.

 

 Rich 

Rich, the stock is listed in order from the loco, so that should let us work out how it was shunted - let's have a go.

 

From the front:

 

Penzance - Truro 9 to 14

Truro - attach 8

Truro - Plymouth 8 to 14

Plymouth - attach 1

Plymouth - Taunton 1, 8 to 14

Taunton - detach 14, attach 2 to 7

Taunton - Reading 1 to 13

Reading - detach 1 and 2

Reading - Paddington 3 to 13

 

I think!

[Ashley Bridge]

Makes more sense that way. Just checked what time zone you’re in but it’s not too late. We’ve been up 41/2 hours because the only delivery we could get from Asda was 6.00-8.00. It was f&#@ing dark! 
 

Stay safe Mate.

 Rich 

[St Enodoc]

5 minutes ago, Ashley Bridge said:

Makes more sense that way. Just checked what time zone you’re in but it’s not too late. We’ve been up 41/2 hours because the only delivery we could get from Asda was 6.00-8.00. It was f&#@ing dark! 
 

Stay safe Mate.

 Rich 

Thanks Rich and the same to you - so far so good with us.

 

We're in that odd week after your clocks changed but before ours do this Sunday. Last week we were 11 hours ahead, this week only 10, then next week it will be 9 until the start of October.

[Tallpaul69]

13 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Copy away Paul, but watch out because my diagrams are modified to keep my trains approximately 60% of the prototype length and to keep the actual number of individual coaches/vans I need down.

 

The full working for the 1540 Penzance is in Operation Cornwall from Xpress Publishing:

 

1. No dia Fruit D Plymouth - Reading

2. No dia Siphon G Taunton - Reading

3. No dia Siphon G Taunton - Paddington

4. 805A BG Taunton - Paddington

5. No dia Van Taunton - Paddington

6. No dia BG Taunton - Paddington

7. No dia Van (Churns) Taunton - Paddington

8. 818A BG Truro - Paddington

9. 808A BG Penzance - Paddington

10. 828A Van Penzance - Paddington

11. 820A Vanfit (Tobacco) Penzance - Paddington

12. 828A BG Penzance - Paddington

13. 821A BG Penzance - Paddington

14. 825A BG Penzance - Taunton (then to Birmingham Moor Street)

 

So for your layout you would only need vehicles 3 to 13 for the full-length train. If you need to shorten it, I'd drop a couple of BGs and vans.

 

Have fun!

I have to shorten all my formations, so nothing new there!

The equivalent of 5 full length Bogie coaches + Loco is all I can manage.

 

So I would probably go for 3, 4,7,11, and 12, with maybe a small van for 5.

 

Cheers

Paul

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

I have to shorten all my formations, so nothing new there!

The equivalent of 5 full length Bogie coaches + Loco is all I can manage.

 

So I would probably go for 3, 4,7,11, and 12, with maybe a small van for 5.

 

Cheers

Paul

Sounds about right Paul. You'll get the variety of Siphons, ordinary vans (no harm making one of them a Fruit D if you have one) and BGs. Don't forget that no 11 is already an ordinary 12T four-wheeled van, so given that the Siphons and other vans are shorter than a BR Mk1 coach you might squeeze in loco + 6.

[St Enodoc]

Another frustrating afternoon chasing faults today. I hate intermittent faults - you've often no idea where to look, no idea if you've found it and no idea if you've fixed it.

 

Anyway, when I switched the power on today nothing worked and all the LEDs were off. That's unusual - generally the track power LEDs come on even if the point power ones don't. Regardless, I powered up the second UTP - no difference, so I uncoiled the cab bus cables to the Penzance Mini Panel and the RB02 radio unit - no difference. It was time to get the meter out. There was full voltage - 14.2V on the track output from the PH box and 13.8 V on the points output from the SB5 but nothing on the output side of any of the EB1 circuit breakers. Eventually after twiddling around with the EB1 trip settings and bypassing one of them altogether, I got track and point power back. That suggested to me that that EB1 was faulty, but when I connected it back in circuit all were working.

 

I sat and scratched my head a bit while running a couple of trains round to see what happened. Not much changed for a while but then everything froze again. However, this time all the LEDs were lit. I turned off the power and when I turned it back on all the track LEDs were lit but only two of the four points ones. At this stage I opened up the PH box to check that the PCBs were properly seated - they were. I also removed and replace the battery - no change.

 

I turned everything off and had a look round. I found that for some reason I had never fitted an RC filter at the end of the Yard track bus. I found one ready made in my bits box so in that went. Eventually, without really doing anything different, the layout came back to life so I ran a couple of trains round again. After another half hour it was time to stop so I did.

 

I'm completely at a loss as to what is going wrong. I hope that it's not a defective PH Box as that woudl be expensive and in present circumstances it might take quite a long time to get a replacement.

 

In the meantime I found enough bits to make up RC filters for the ends of each of the four point group sub-buses. I'll see what happens after they're fitted.

 

Sorry for rambling on a bit but I thought that if I gave a blow-by-blow account someone might recognise something they'd seen before - over to you!

[Stubby47]

@Clive Mortimore could probably tell you how to fix everything

[Stubby47]

Have you got a loose wire / dry soldered joint somewhere? That might give rise to an intermittent fault.

[Clive Mortimore]

33 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

@Clive Mortimore could probably tell you how to fix everything

I am willing to help but when I got to the second UPT I was totally baffled.

 

There is a remedy, a 'ammer, and as you strike with it remember to use the correct swear words. Fixes every thing.