Class 800 - Updates

[DavidB]

Blistering performance out of Paddington under the wires. Ride seemed fine.

 

Now under diesel power.....I would not describe the ride as good.

I'm not sure that the difference in ride quality is necessarily down to the train.  Overall ride quality from Paddington to Twyford on the Down Main is generally pretty good (as is Reading to Didcot, which is excellent).  There is some very lumpy track just west of Twyford, where the s-bend through the station straightens out and heads onto the embankment - at the full 125mph, it is not a pleasant experience at all, with the suspension sitting down hard to the left, then the right and back again.  Likewise the stretch through the Vale beyond Didcot is far from smooth between Wantage Road and Shrivenham at full speed in an HST, with some pronounced dips and lurches in places.  So I suspect that track quality on some of the diesel sections is the main factor here.

 

David 

[Coryton]

I'm not sure that the difference in ride quality is necessarily down to the train.  Overall ride quality from Paddington to Twyford on the Down Main is generally pretty good (as is Reading to Didcot, which is excellent).  There is some very lumpy track just west of Twyford, where the s-bend through the station straightens out and heads onto the embankment - at the full 125mph, it is not a pleasant experience at all, with the suspension sitting down hard to the left, then the right and back again.  Likewise the stretch through the Vale beyond Didcot is far from smooth between Wantage Road and Shrivenham at full speed in an HST, with some pronounced dips and lurches in places.  So I suspect that track quality on some of the diesel sections is the main factor here.

 

Well I wouldn't have thought the ride would depend on the traction, though it might on the speed, so this certainly makes sense.

 

I could easily convince myself the ride was worse than a Mk 3, but then again I was paying much more attention than I normally would.

 

I'll have to concentrate more the next time I travel in an HST.

[melmerby]

I did of course neglect the rolling stock entirely with the gauge change, which is hardly insignificant.

But in terms of infrastructure I'm sticking with electrification being a bigger add wider ranging change.

Most of the GWR gauge change was done gradually with only the last remnants of pure 7' gauge going on the weekend of 20th May 1892

Much of the broad gauge track had been converted first to mixed then to standard over 30 or more years.

Only 171 route miles were left to convert out of the GWR's total track mileage of  about 2400, mostly west of Bristol.

 

Plenty of standard gauge rolling stock and locos were available, many late broad gauge items were theoretically convertible, although many were scrapped without being conveted to "narrow gauge"

 

It was an operation that needed careful planning but wasn't earth shattering in the overall scheme of things.

 

Keith

[jjb1970]

Steam to diesel hydraulic is no great shakes, really. The gauge change is arguable. Whilst hugely significant in itself, it only really impacted the track - mechanical signalling doesn't have much interface with the rails beyond the points. And working practises of the late 19th century were very different to today.

By contrast electrification with 2017 working practices and legislation and on a system where everything interacts with everything else is a lot more complex than it might seem at first. It affects everything - the signals, the bridges, the lineside fence, station canopies... Even things which don't change have to be assessed too prove that they don't need to. I think it's actually a fair comment that it's just about the most radical change since it went from no railway to there being one.

Steam to diesel was a paradigm shift in technology in almost every way (completely new rolling stock design, manufacturing and maintenance and new support infrastructure, labour changes, smoke, performance etc).

System interdependency is nothing new, and the analytical tools available today are immeasurably more powerful than anything engineers in the 19th century could ever have dreamt of never mind have had access to.

[Christopher125]

On a more serious note, there have been plenty of comments that underfloor diesel engines will always be intrusive and instead should be put out of the way in a nice power car. I think the 800's show that it isn't true - and they don't even have a noisy air conditioning system to try to drown out the engine noise.

 

 

Some recent tweets by journalist Richard Clinnick appear to back this up...

 

"DB sound meter shows reading of 58.8 in powered vehicle of 800005 at full speed. HST at full speed - 74.7

Motor for 800005. Standard next to Buffet on HST"

 

...and also of note:

 

"On a GA Mk 3 standard class. IC70 seats. Legroom is 11inches. A GWR HST is 12 inches and an IEP is 13 inches."

Edited October 26, 2017 by Christopher125

[Zomboid]

That's good that they're pretty quiet, though the comparison is to something pretty old now.

An interesting comparison will be with the mk5s; modern LHCS should be a little better than a DMU in principle.

[TerrySVR]

Has anyone managed to video a cab ride in one of these yet?

[Christopher125]

That's good that they're pretty quiet, though the comparison is to something pretty old now.

An interesting comparison will be with the mk5s; modern LHCS should be a little better than a DMU in principle.

 

One is an unpowered trailer, the other has a large diesel engine underneath - parity alone would be a major achievement, especially given other modern designs like the Voyager, Meridian and Adelante which are criticised for interior noise.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Christopher125

[Coryton]

One is an unpowered trailer, the other has a large diesel engine underneath - parity alone would be a major achievement, especially given other modern designs like the Voyager, Meridian and Adelante which are criticised for interior noise.

 

Absolutely. And I suspect if you compared with the Pendolinos which are a bit more modern than a Mk3 the 800's would still come out well.

 

I don't know how hard it was to get the engine sound levels as low as they are - it depends how hard people tried in the past - but now it shows what can be done, albeit with a somewhat higher floor than might be nice.

[Zomboid]

Though if the AC on a mk5 is noisy then all that advantage of not having a V12 slung underneath will seemingly be lost. The main noise I remember from a pendo (and a MK4 set, for that matter) is the hum from the rails where they've been ground.

 

A mk5 should be noticeably lighter than an 800 too, which will have an impact on the noise and ride. Whether it'll be a good or bad impact I couldn't say.

[Geoff Endacott]

Door problems forced 1L51 to terminate at Reading today.

 

(Apparently the doors are supposed to be closed when the train is moving.)

 

Geoff Endacott

[DavidB]

Yikes - I hope that's another of your many witticisms Geoff, and not a reflection of what actually happened.

 

David

[Geoff Endacott]

On the  WNXX forum:

 

Rumours of 1L51 standing in the area west of Reading with a door on Coach C open...

 

Geoff Endacott

[Geoff Endacott]

Train now reported to be working 1B40 to Swansea, starting from Reading.

 

Problem presumably minor and now fixed.

 

Geoff Endacott

[SouthernMafia]

The door was never open. There was a fault with the system telling the driver that it was insecure (does not mean open), when it was checked it was found to be secure. Reboot was carried out and fault rectified itself.

[flapland]

I do find the rebooting of such large items slightly strange even though in my day job with PC's, phones etc its par for the course. The New Routmaster I get to work often has to be rebooted mid journey, they also suffer with a strange random bus stop announcement bug from time to time. Good job the A350 or 787 aircraft don't require mid flight reboots !!

[RJS1977]

More problems with the doors at Swansea. I got off the service from Pembroke Dock at  approx 1715 and decided to photograph the 800 before boarding. Whilst I was doing this, the rain doors closed and locked - apart from one in Coach C.  All passengers already on the train were herded off while a Hitachi technician tried without success to open and close the doors. The empty train pulled out, reversed on Landore triangle, arrived back just after the 1745 stopper had left (passengers for Neath, Port Talbot and Bridgend were advised to take the stopper as the 800 would now be running non-stop to Cardiff). 800 finally departed approx 30 mins late but got stuck behind the stopper anyway so was unable to make up time between Swansea and Cardiff, and extended stops at subsequent stations prevented any time being clawed back subsequently.

 

As to the train itself, apart from the door issue, reasonably impressed. A little bit of engine noise, but not obtrusive. Decent sized overhead luggage racks. Seats firm, rather than uncomfortable. Personally I'd have preferred a slightly less steep back but that's individual preference. Not sure about the charging sockets between the seats though (and yes I know the airline seats on HSTs did too, but not on table seats) as it requires anyone using the socket to unplug if the person in the window seat wants to get out.

[Coryton]

As to the train itself, apart from the door issue, reasonably impressed. A little bit of engine noise, but not obtrusive. Decent sized overhead luggage racks. Seats firm, rather than uncomfortable. Personally I'd have preferred a slightly less steep back but that's individual preference. Not sure about the charging sockets between the seats though (and yes I know the airline seats on HSTs did too, but not on table seats) as it requires anyone using the socket to unplug if the person in the window seat wants to get out.

 

But at least the sockets aren't one between two so you don't have to fight over them (unless someone has been greedy and hogged both of them...)

 

I found the seats uncomfortably firm. Maybe I don't have enough padding.

[The Pilotman]

Good job the A350 or 787 aircraft don't require mid flight reboots !!

Who says they don't?

Edited October 26, 2017 by Western Aviator

[Coryton]

Who says they don't?

 

I don't think I want to know.

[D854_Tiger]

I've taken a look at one or two of the Youtube videos that have now started to appear of them in service and one feature I notice is that all the on-train announcements seem to have been automated.

 

My first point, not in regional accents, tut tut, that will never do in the more diverse times we are supposed to be living in but seriously what is wrong with a Welsh accent also if you are going to automate why not bi-lingual.

 

Why do I feel a Welsh AM in search of headline coming on.

 

Secondly, automated announcements, Japanese train and no melodies, what's wrong with them, what a missed opportunity.

 

At the terminus of every Japanese train journey they also play the national anthem (Casio remix version) I think that would be a nice touch also all anthems could be catered for and maybe even Jerusalem for arrivals at London rather than GSTQ.

[Coryton]

I've taken a look at one or two of the Youtube videos that have now started to appear of them in service and one feature I notice is that all the on-train announcements seem to have been automated.

 

Secondly, automated announcements, Japanese train and no melodies, what's wrong with them, what a missed opportunity.

 

At the terminus of every Japanese train journey they also play the national anthem (Casio remix version) I think that would be a nice touch also all anthems could be catered for and maybe even Jerusalem for arrivals at London rather than GSTQ.

 

There were manual announcements on the IET journeys I made....unless they've got far more convincing automatic announcements than anywhere else.

 

I like the idea of coming-into-the-terminus music. Someone should suggest it to Virgin...might be more their sort of thing.

 

(Having just booked a ticket from Virgin Trains East Coast and got a confirmation saying something along the lines of "Wahaay. Your booking is complete".)

[eastwestdivide]

...

 

I like the idea of coming-into-the-terminus music. Someone should suggest it to Virgin...might be more their sort of thing.

 

(Having just booked a ticket from Virgin Trains East Coast and got a confirmation saying something along the lines of "Wahaay. Your booking is complete".)

I think that last one falls into the category of "it was funny the first dozen times, but you can stop now".

At different times, I've had emails from VTEC with 

- an unintelligible emoji and "You're good to go"

- "so please just take a moment to check that everything is tickety-boo"

- "we're friends (with benefits)"

- "Remember, passwords should be like underwear: changed often and never shared!"

 

[smiley face in green with finger down throat]

 

As for the music on arrival, well, if it was changed regularly, maybe. The Ride of the Valkyries coming into Edinburgh Waverley might work somehow. Or The Jam "Going Underground" on arrival into London.

Edited October 27, 2017 by eastwestdivide

[Coryton]

 

I think that last one falls into the category of "it was funny the first dozen times, but you can stop now".

 

I'm afraid I didn't find it particularly funny the first time.

 

Personally, I think that sort of approach is fine for companies where you can pick or choose...nobody makes you use Virgin bank or their mobile phone network.

 

But it doesn't seem right to me for part of the railway network.

 

Maybe I'm just old fashioned.

 

I quite liked the "We're coming into the terminus - time to start packing your stuff away ready to get off" music when I encountered it in Korea.

[St. Simon]

Has anyone managed to video a cab ride in one of these yet?

 

Hi,

 

I tried to when I went on my ride, but my Phone had run out of memory (plus, it was strictly for work only, not for public showing).

 

I wouldn't bank on anyone getting a cab ride for a long time, I was one of, if not the, last to allowed in the cab who wasn't a driver before they entered service, and we've been told that after they went into service, getting a cab ride, even for official purposes, was going to be very very difficult.

 

Simon