idris Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'm going to use a couple of H&M flash switch units to drive PL11 point motors If I understand correctly, it's probably worth using a CDU as well, but I can't find wiring instructions for the H&M units. Can any one help out? http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/9/0/0/7/9/8/webimg/795644709_tp.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Idris The switch has 3 tags at the rear, centre one is power in. The outer two go to the point motor. If the motor throw is the wrong way round, just swap the outer two wirwe round Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hi This has to be from memory as these H&M units are quite old now... As far as I recall they are fully cased, so access to the actual switches is not possible unless you open the casing. If I recall correctly 16 v ac (or the output of a CDU) is connected to the pair of side input sockets. On the rear (this is where it gets fuzzy!) if I recall correctly there are three terminals per switch. So six sets of three! Two terminals per group are the motors operation feed (left and right) and the other is the return for the motor? But I stand to be corrected and a picture of the rear would be helpful. Edit to correct typing error. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailWest Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I would suggest that you start by using a simple circuit-tester or multimeter and work it out by trial and error on one of the switches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The H&M Switch has Three Tags, middle power in, outer tags, Normal and Reverse coils, and has said, if the motor goes the wrong way swap the outer tags over. The motor itself has seven tags 1 Lefthand Coil, 2 Righthand coil, 3, 4 and 5 are a change over switch and normaly used to "Polorise" the point crossing, in which case 3 is the Point Crossing, and 4 and 5 to the respective stock rails, if you get the polarity wrong swap the wires over. 6 and 7 are the Commons for both motor coils. With the armature in No1, the Change Over switch is made via terminals 3 and 5. I personaly never found the built in change over switch to be reliable, and I have always added a Micro Switch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
idris Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 The H&M Switch has Three Tags, middle power in, outer tags, Normal and Reverse coils, and has said, if the motor goes the wrong way swap the outer tags over. The motor itself has seven tags 1 Lefthand Coil, 2 Righthand coil, 3, 4 and 5 are a change over switch and normaly used to "Polorise" the point crossing, in which case 3 is the Point Crossing, and 4 and 5 to the respective stock rails, if you get the polarity wrong swap the wires over. 6 and 7 are the Commons for both motor coils. With the armature in No1, the Change Over switch is made via terminals 3 and 5. I personaly never found the built in change over switch to be reliable, and I have always added a Micro Switch. Your description of the switches matches what I've got. As for the rest, are you talking about H&M point motors? As mentioned, I'm using Peco PL11 motors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
idris Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 All the circuits I've seen for CDUs put them before the switches. As the H&M Flash Units are designed to take their power directly from an adjacent comtroler, is there any way to connect a CDU after the switches? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailWest Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 >>>As the H&M Flash Units are designed to take their power directly from an adjacent controller....How? Do you mean that one is designed to physically plug in to the other? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
idris Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Exactly. Effectively the speed controller plugs into the mains, and the switch unit plugs into the speed controller. And they need to sit against each other. (There are brass pins that act as connectors.) To have a CDU wired to the power input of a switch unit, it would mean a bit of internal rewiring: routing the power out of the switch unit, into the CDU and then back into the Switch unit. All possible, just a bit inelegant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I know I'm late to the party, but the way I do this is to have a single Feed from the CDU to a Bus bar on the layout from which I run wires to the point motors as a common return. The other feed goes to the switch box, which I open up so that I can directly connect the feed to the centre tag of each switch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
idris Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 I know I'm late to the party, but the way I do this is to have a single Feed from the CDU to a Bus bar on the layout from which I run wires to the point motors as a common return. The other feed goes to the switch box, which I open up so that I can directly connect the feed to the centre tag of each switch. You might be late, but I'm even later getting back to you. H ha! Do you have a circuit diagram for that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Hi Idris Hopefully this will help - I've shown the terminals as red and black purely to keep wiring simple - being AC it doesn't matter that much, but I find it helps to work with common returns if you always use a wire with 'BL' in the colour - Black and Blue tend to be the ones I use. On the diagram I've shown the options for each point motor as Blue or red and the switch wiring - I'm assuming you're using passing switches . If you have a bank of them you can run a common 'live' feed into the box and just drop feeds from that to each individual switch. BY using a common return straight back to the CDU you reduce the amount of wire you need considerably. Hope it helps ATB Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
idris Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2016 Here is a Flash Unit I also plan to use. The switches facia the innards I have some Peco P11s I want to wire to this; red and black wires and a green one in the middle. Is it red and black to the switch and green to a tag on the base? The brown and orange wires are the 16V in and out. This Unit is 'powered' from an H & M Controller or 16V supply. I could of course scrap this/ sell it on, however I quite like its historic look and it will sit with my H & M Controllers that will be providing the 12V and 16V power supplies for my points (that's the plan at the moment). Many thanks, Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpman46 Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Hi Phil Have attached Peco's instructions for the PL-11. PL-11 Instructions.pdf As you have said, green wire to tag on base, red and black wires to the switch tags. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2016 Hi Phil Have attached Peco's instructions for the PL-11. PL-11 Instructions.pdf As you have said, green wire to tag on base, red and black wires to the switch tags. Cheers Mike Thank you very much Mike. I shall be trying this out this week. I forgot to mention I shall use a Microswitch at the point tie bar for the frog (on modified points). Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2016 Hi Phil Have attached Peco's instructions for the PL-11. PL-11 Instructions.pdf As you have said, green wire to tag on base, red and black wires to the switch tags. Cheers Mike Works fine if the point isn't knackered . Many thanks all. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 24, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2016 Hi Phil Have attached Peco's instructions for the PL-11. PL-11 Instructions.pdf As you have said, green wire to tag on base, red and black wires to the switch tags. Cheers Mike Just in case it is of any use to someone.... Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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