RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted January 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2015 I am looking a getting a new car; however pretty much everything which fits my criteria is diesel. This in itself is not an issue, other than the dreaded diesel particulate filter (dpf). The thing is, my annual mileage is low - 6,000 to 10,000 annually. This is because the car is not used from Monday to Friday...only venturing out Friday evenings and the weekends. When the car does go out, these journeys are 40-odd mile return trips on relatively open roads, so the exhaust would heat up to the require temperature (I very rarely use the car for 'short' journeys i.e. a couple of miles to the shops). The issue with the dpf is that it needs to get up to temperature to properly filter the diesel particulates...lots of short journeys mean the filter becomes clogged and eventually needs replacing - not a cheap job. So, my question is... Will my driving patterns - probably only going out once or twice a week on average, average distance covered on a journey around about 20 miles each way, with an occasional longer distance (250 miles in one journey) thrash up to the in-laws - give me issues with a diesel engine? The engine size will be 2.4, and I live in a rural area, so there will be little stopping and starting. Now I know a general view is the dpf is a botched response to knee-jerk government diktat, but it is an inescapable fact of life, also I have my reasons for wanting a decent sized estate car whilst doing a low annual mileage...I'm not interested in discussing either, my query is simply if a diesel will suit my driving patterns. TIA! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 My motor caravan (only vehicle at present) is a diesel and I wish it wasn't! I can see the running costs soaring with the concerns about particulates. Are you talking new new? I'd go for petrol or look seriously at a hybrid. I think the value of deisels is going to plummet, and with your low mileage I can't see that a few extra mpg is going to be worth it. You obviously need to compare the purchase and servicing costs of the two engines (do you have a particular model in mind?) and, for goodness sake, insist on a test drive of both, ideally back to back. When we were looking for a new car for friends it was like getting blood out of a stone for VW to provide test vehicles. HTH Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted January 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2015 I think you should be fine if your longer runs allow you to do 2,000 rpm for about 15mins at a time However I do agree that longer term new diesels values will plummet due to crazy government and the running expenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 30801 Posted January 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2015 I don't see a problem with a DPF and your usage pattern. But as above, if you can get the same car with a plain petrol engine... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted January 25, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2015 Thanks so far. I am replacing my Volvo estate, which is a petrol car. A petrol version is nigh on impossible to get hold of...and whilst I'm not too fussed about performance, the 1.6 Drive versions worry me...big car small engine. My annual mileage and usage is such that fuel economy isn't too relevant, so I have not gone for a diesel for that reason...the car I like just happens to be a diesel. The one I have in mind is a 2009 (59) XC70, although the 2WD V70 is pretty much 90% diesel by the looks of things! If faced with no choice I would consider something else...but if not suitable, I want to make absolutely certain. Most of the websites I have looked at seem to confuse a low mileage because the car is used once or twice a week, with a low mileage because the car is regularly taken out for 2 or 3 miles down to the shops and back! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I read the Honest John section of the Daily Telegraph motoring supplement on a Saturday, and he's often being asked questions on this very subject. I hope I've got this right! - there are now, it seems, new diesel designs that have the injectors in the inlet manifold so there's a much cleaner burn of fuels and less work for the DPF to do. It may well be worth your while reading what HJ has to say - the web site is http://www.honestjohn.co,.uk Hope that helps. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Worth a read, this sort of thing will only increase. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2913674/Council-charge-diesel-car-drivers-extra-100-park-outside-homes.html I personally would not touch a modern diesel unless I did very high mileages, which I don't. It's not just DPF's, also injection systems, EGR valves etc. The days of cheap diesel motoring (v.s. petrol)are coming to an end. Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I understand your concerns about small engines in big cars, Ford put their 1 litre 3cyl engine in the Mondeo now! My 09 van has a 2.5 litre 5 cyl turbo diesel, the new ones are all 4 cyl 2 litres, the power outputs controlled by turbo size and engine management mapping. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chriswright03 Posted January 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2015 I have had bad problems with DPF before but I have had another car since last April without problem. Short drives are a killer for it and lots of in town driving will not help. The driving you say you will do should not give you any trouble. Diesel is a marmite thing and opinions will be just as far apart. I buy diesel because the performance suits the way I drive and I think it gives the best for everyday driving conditions ie the torque lets you overtake safely because the power is there without having to drop a gear (or two). We also until recently had a 1.4 TFSI Audi with all the tricks it has up it's sleeve it was still as dead as a nit until you wound it up. Regards Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted January 25, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2015 I read the Honest John section of the Daily Telegraph motoring supplement on a Saturday, and he's often being asked questions on this very subject. I hope I've got this right! - there are now, it seems, new diesel designs that have the injectors in the inlet manifold so there's a much cleaner burn of fuels and less work for the DPF to do. It may well be worth your while reading what HJ has to say - the web site is http://www.honestjohn.co,.uk Hope that helps. Phil Ah, I did see this article, but did not get as far as this section...interrupted by something or another! Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I don't know if they have what you want, but I'd seriously suggest a petrol KIA - Mine is a Picanto Halo Eco (smaller than you want) and I am very pleased with it - good mileage and in 3+ years no problems and it has a 7 year warranty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I understand your concerns about small engines in big cars, Ford put their 1 litre 3cyl engine in the Mondeo now! My 09 van has a 2.5 litre 5 cyl turbo diesel, the new ones are all 4 cyl 2 litres, the power outputs controlled by turbo size and engine management mapping. Ed I thought the Ford 1.0 engine was a gimmick, until I drove one. Quite a few people at work who have switched from larger petrol and diesel models have vowed never to go back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I thought the Ford 1.0 engine was a gimmick, until I drove one. Quite a few people at work who have switched from larger petrol and diesel models have vowed never to go back. I remember many years ago being told that the future was in 330cc cylinders, particularly 1 litre triples, and now everyone is making them. The important thing in combustion is getting enough air in. With forced induction and variable valve timing, the swept volume is not as important as it was, despite the US mantra "you can't beat cubes". Accurate petrol injection is now cheap and universal, so really the trick is to make the tiddly engines strong enough for the high pressures generated. I think the most powerful F1 engines were the 1.5 litre turbo cars which could produce 1000 HP in qualifying. Some spectacular failures though! Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I use a 2003 Bora TDi 100. I usually resort to sticking all sorts of cleaning fluids in with the Sainsbury's fuel (e.g. Redex, Wynns, etc.) and so far nothing has gone wrong, though I would still like to try a remap at some stage. Daily journeys are a 25-minute drive on the North Circular, plus weekends up the M1-M25-A4251 to the stables at Sarratt, usually at a rate of 57 to 62 mpg. I need to improve on this.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I use a 2003 Bora TDi 100. I usually resort to sticking all sorts of cleaning fluids in with the Sainsbury's fuel (e.g. Redex, Wynns, etc.) and so far nothing has gone wrong, though I would still like to try a remap at some stage. Daily journeys are a 25-minute drive on the North Circular, plus weekends up the M1-M25-A4251 to the stables at Sarratt, usually at a rate of 57 to 62 mpg. I need to improve on this.... In my old van (18 years and 190000 miles) I filled it with BP's low sulphur "City" fuel before the MOT, used Redex and made sure the air filter was clean or new. It sailed through the emissions test every year, used no oil and was running as well when I p/ex'd it as it was when I got it. In other words, like a bl**dy diesel! Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 30801 Posted January 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2015 the swept volume is not as important as it was, despite the US mantra "you can't beat cubes". Off topic, but the Americans have resorted to playing brum brum noises through the stereo to cope with modern quiet engines. http://jalopnik.com/the-fake-engine-noise-in-the-mustang-ecoboost-can-play-1646198872 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 When I first started Driving in 1984 I had an 1100cc petrol Fiesta and it was a choice between that and a 950cc one. The 1.1 was quite nippy and surprised quite a lot of people! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthesnail96 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I think you'll be just fine with that kind of useage and a DPF. It's stop start town driving that kills them. Make sure that every now and again you give it a bit of an "Italian tune- up", once it's up to operating temperature give it a bit of exercise using the full rev range through the gears and potentially a short stint in a gear lower than you'd normally use on the motorway to get some proper heat into it- but to be honest so long as you don't go everywhere at 2000rpm or less, or never get above 40mph, it'll be fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted January 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2015 Ah, I did see this article, but did not get as far as this section...interrupted by something or another! Thanks!I have a Land Rover Freelander 2. it has the Ford 2.2 diesel engine. My weekend useage is similar to yours. My car gets used for short journeys in the week. The DPF warning light has never come on, the vehicle has always easily passed the emission regulations. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted January 25, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2015 I have a Land Rover Freelander 2. it has the Ford 2.2 diesel engine. My weekend useage is similar to yours. My car gets used for short journeys in the week. The DPF warning light has never come on, the vehicle has always easily passed the emission regulations. Tony Is this quite a recent vehicle? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2015 Are you getting a brand new car? At those mileages if buying new I'd go for one of the new generation small highly blown petrol engines. They're not that far behind diesel on economy, petrol is still a bit cheaper and they're pretty torquey. My wife runs a VW Golf 1.4TSI 140PS with a DSG gear box and it is not actually that far behind the A1 1.6TDi it replaced yet is a pretty quick car. Not a hot hatch but it is really rather quick. We found with the A1 that the dpf light went on regularly requiring a run at high rpm to regenerate it which was one reason we reverted to petrol for that car. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted January 25, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2015 Are you getting a brand new car? At those mileages if buying new I'd go for one of the new generation small highly blown petrol engines. They're not that far behind diesel on economy, petrol is still a bit cheaper and they're pretty torquey. My wife runs a VW Golf 1.4TSI 140PS with a DSG gear box and it is not actually that far behind the A1 1.6TDi it replaced yet is a pretty quick car. Not a hot hatch but it is really rather quick. We found with the A1 that the dpf light went on regularly requiring a run at high rpm to regenerate it which was one reason we reverted to petrol for that car. No, I'm looking to get one about 5 years old. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2015 At five years old a diesel may be a better buy, my concern with a dpf on a s/h car is that the life of the filter will be linked to the driving style and if the car has been owned or leased by somebody mainly driving in town and doing a lot of short stop/start journeys then that will affect the filter. My own car is a diesel and even on a long run sometimes the dpf does not regenerate due to the low engine load and exhaust temperature if sitting at 60 - 70. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted January 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2015 Is this quite a recent vehicle? Built 2008. I bought it in 2010. It is apparently a Class V diesel for Euro emission thingies. Mine is an automatic but I still get the very occasional drive in my wife's Fiesta. I didn't buy the Freelander for its engine or its 4wd capability, I bought it as it was very comfortable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fozzy280472 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Just seen on the news the government now want to levy extra charges for diesels now including up to £10 extra on the congestion charge due to the amount of hazardous to health gas and particles they produce .I was going to order a new focus diesel but swapped the order for an equivalent ecoboost petrol , glad I did now. It may be something extra to think about regarding the pros and cons of both petrol and diesels when looking for a new car Cheers Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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