Promoting our hobby in public

[bike2steam]

We have lost the battle with the public apart from model railway exhibitions which tends to have a good family following as the younger children still like trains until they grow a little older!

Enjoy our hobby and forget about the sad people who get more fun out of mocking us rather than looking at what we have achieved!

 

No - just keep up the fight. At the Blandford Town Museum, one of the trustees is a railway enthusiast, and he came up with the idea of a working model of the local station as an exhibit, the other trustees weren't too keen on the idea, and looked down on it, as other negative thinkers do, but through hard convincing tactics they eventually gave in, and the layout was built. End result when the layout was near completion, and running - footfall through the door of the museum increased by over 50%.

 As a club, the museum railway club has had to find separate premises as we have outgrown the museum - good for them, and good for us, but I still have to keep going back to the museum to keep the Blandford layout in working order.    

 

footnote;- We are looking forward to a visit from Chris Nevard next month.

[johnarcher]

No - just keep up the fight. At the Blandford Town Museum, one of the trustees is a railway enthusiast, and he came up with the idea of a working model of the local station as an exhibit, the other trustees weren't too keen on the idea, and looked down on it, as other negative thinkers do, but through hard convincing tactics they eventually gave in, and the layout was built. End result when the layout was near completion, and running - footfall through the door of the museum increased by over 50%.

 As a club, the museum railway club has had to find separate premises as we have outgrown the museum - good for them, and good for us, but I still have to keep going back to the museum to keep the Blandford layout in working order.    

 

footnote;- We are looking forward to a visit from Chris Nevard next month.

Excellent, I would imagine that a model of a real, recognised, place would indeed help to show people that it's not all 'toy trains' or grown-ups playing with Thomas.

Equally getting layouts of high quality, like Pempoul in another post above, into local shows - that's a good example because I'd guess a fine scratch-built locomotive would look much the same as something from Bachmann to most people, yet they would recognise well-modelled scenery or buildings as something that, again, is a bit more than 'train set'

Whether the people with really negative attitudes would go and look is another matter.

[SM42]

Firstly folks  I did say most hobbies with a few exceptions are about collecting or numbers.  The persuit of betterment often involves some sort of numeric measure (Football leagues, golf scores, the bigger fish) or adding to a collection (trains, stamps, cars,)

 

 

IMO A waste of time and last year Marlow Msidenhead Diistruct MRC were invited to have a stand at a craft fair in Maidenhead Nicolsons Walk Sopping Centre on a Saturday when very few people showed any interest so much so we packed up early and left.

The usual comment I get is along the lines of "Thomas Tank for adults" or "I just don't get it, grown men playing with trains"

We have lost the battle with the public apart from model railway exhibitions which tends to have a good family following as the younger children still like trains until they grow a little older!

Enjoy our hobby and forget about the sad people who get more fun out of mocking us rather than looking at what we have achieved!

 

But back to the promotion aspect and the above comment. This is not about converting people (as this would be pointless,) it is about awakening a latent interest. I just wonder if the public image is half the problem here. If the hobby can be seen as more mainstream  then the chances of that interest coming out into the light, rather than being a guilty secret, might be better.

 

Those who mock probably have interests that are just as unfathomable to those outside their immediate family and social circle (or maybe no interests at all) and may gain something (comfort or kudos)  from mocking someone who they perceive as having a less worthwhile interests.  I'm sure there was a hierarchy of hobbies somewhere up thread.

 

I'd be intrigued to know how much interest other stands were getting and whether these stands had some sort of commercial activity going on.

 

 

Andy

[johnarcher]

It would also be interesting to know what was displayed on the Marlow MRC stand?

(Just wondering what might be thought likely to interest people who go to a craft fair especially?)

[brianusa]

When I was involved with a 'real' train society in this country, we were asked to build a model of a local station and surrounding buildings.  It was to be exhibited under glass in the station itself and would be operated by pushing a button to make it all work.  Just a simple out and back but the level crossing barriers worked and it was good enough to be recognised by the general public who were frequent visitors.  There was also a G scale box car converted into a money box to aid the society which was usually well filled.  It was not regarded as a 'grown men playing with trains' thing but an asset to the society and to the community.  Different outlook!

 

Brian.

[Andy Hayter]

And I think that is the problem Brian.

 

I have not come across the stigmatisation of railway modellers in Germany or France.  It seems to be a very British thing, which I think has been driven by British media.

[johnarcher]

Maybe that is right, it does seem a bit different in France.

On the other hand Brian's experience seems similar to the Blandford Museum example above - which maybe suggests that, even in the UK, if you produce something that is clearly not toy trains (presumably the representation of a real, familiar place would tell people it's not just standard bought items) you can get a better response.

Then also place it where people won't need a particular interest to seek it out (station, museum).

 

Maybe the idea one hears that the rtr tailchaser at the local exhibition will attract people, because it shows what can be done easily, is a mistake and a model of a local station or scene would be more effective?

[TEAMYAKIMA]

And I think that is the problem Brian.

 

I have not come across the stigmatisation of railway modellers in Germany or France.  It seems to be a very British thing, which I think has been driven by British media.

 

I've just thought of a possible explanation -

 

I think in retrospect I think many/most of us would agree that trainspotting in the sense of underlining numbers in a book is/was a rather strange pastime even back in the early 1960s.

 

The stigma continues today....... is it the numbercrunching itself rather than an interest in railways  that creates the stigma?

 

But what of countries like France, Germany and for that matter USA and Japan ...... did those countries have trainspotters (numbercrunchers) ?

 

My guess is that trainspotting (in the numbercrunching sense) rather than (to use the American phrase) railfanning is the problem....... was trainspotting unique to the UK? And does that explain why railfanning is not so stigmatised in other countries?

[Nile_Griffith]

And I think that is the problem Brian.

 

I have not come across the stigmatisation of railway modellers in Germany or France.  It seems to be a very British thing, which I think has been driven by British media.

 

 

No I think I would put it down to the French and German sense of humour.

 

In general I find that the people who try and make mileage with any kind of serious or hurtful ridicule about playing with toy trains, generally have the kind of intelligence quotient that puts them in the "requiring of sympathy" or Pr*t pigeon hole. And I stopped being concerned over those types a long, long, time ago.

 

I think by and large most people will respect our interest in model railways, just so long as we remember to show a little respect for their lack of knowledge as to what it really is all about. Lets face it whatever the subject, there is no worse ambassador for the hobby than some "Hair Shirt" wearing enthusiast who takes the view that anyone who does not fully understand his or hers life's devotion as being an ignoramus of the grandest order.

 

I have a very good friend and colleague who is............ Lord help his poor lost and lamented soul....................... A Morris dancer. Now if you want a hobby that puts you right n the firing line of public ridicule!!!!

[bike2steam]

HEY!!! Don't you start on Morris dancers !!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBvBjJpTZrM

 

 

 

 

[Pacific231G]

No I think I would put it down to the French and German sense of humour.

 

 

I have a very good friend and colleague who is............ Lord help his poor lost and lamented soul....................... A Morris dancer. Now if you want a hobby that puts you right n the firing line of public ridicule!!!!

 I've long thought that if Morris Dancing was something done by peasants in the Dordogne the very people who ridicule it in this country would think it the most absolutely mahhvellous discovery.

[Loconuts]

Blokes would do any Hobby to escape the missus and drink BEER.

 

Loconuts

[Pacific231G]

I've just thought of a possible explanation -

 

I think in retrospect I think many/most of us would agree that trainspotting in the sense of underlining numbers in a book is/was a rather strange pastime even back in the early 1960s.

 

The stigma continues today....... is it the numbercrunching itself rather than an interest in railways  that creates the stigma?

 

But what of countries like France, Germany and for that matter USA and Japan ...... did those countries have trainspotters (numbercrunchers) ?

 

My guess is that trainspotting (in the numbercrunching sense) rather than (to use the American phrase) railfanning is the problem....... was trainspotting unique to the UK? And does that explain why railfanning is not so stigmatised in other countries?

 

I'm not aware of trainspotting (or plane spotting or bus spotting) in the sense of number gathering outside Britain. I've never seen the French equivalent of an Ian Allan locospotter's book in bookshops not even second hand. I did hear of a lovely exchange between a British spotter and a French cheminot  (rail worker) who was curious about why he was writing down all the numbers and when it was explained asked in all innocence "So when you've collected all of them you get a prize?"

 

I'm not sure how railway enthusiasm in general is regarded in the USA. Modelling and railfanning are clearly large hobbies but are they as a proportion of the population? I have noticed in the excellent Big Bang Theory comedy series that Sheldon's passion for both railroads and model trains is depicted as demonstrating his rather strange personality. 

 

Of course it could be that active railway enthusiasm is simply far more prevalent in Britain (and probably heavily British influenced countries like Australia)  than elsewhere so makes a bigger target; we certainly have far more well founded heritage railways.

[garethashenden]

I'm not aware of trainspotting (or plane spotting or bus spotting) in the sense of number gathering outside Britain. I've never seen the French equivalent of an Ian Allan locospotter's book in bookshops not even second hand. I did hear of a lovely exchange between a British spotter and a French cheminot (rail worker) who was curious about why he was writing down all the numbers and when it was explained asked in all innocence "So when you've collected all of them you get a prize?"

 

I'm not sure how railway enthusiasm in general is regarded in the USA. Modelling and railfanning are clearly large hobbies but are they as a proportion of the population? I have noticed in the excellent Big Bang Theory comedy series that Sheldon's passion for both railroads and model trains is depicted as demonstrating his rather strange personality.

 

Of course it could be that active railway enthusiasm is simply far more prevalent in Britain (and probably heavily British influenced countries like Australia) than elsewhere so makes a bigger target; we certainly have far more well founded heritage railways.

No numbers to back this up but, I suspect that there are more enthusiasts in America but it is a smaller percentage of the population.

[Colin_McLeod]

HEY!!! Don't you start on Morris dancers !!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBvBjJpTZrM

 

 

 

 

Pity the Morris Dancer who also has a model railway!!

[petethemole]

I know one.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Pity the Morris Dancer who also has a model railway!!

 

Train spotting Morris Dancers, getting a quick jig in before the 1345 Freightliner passes through.....

 

 

 

 

[Loconuts]

No numbers to back this up but, I suspect that there are more enthusiasts in America but it is a smaller percentage of the population.

For the numbers go to the NMRA members list.  I have been involved with American Railroading for a least 10 years and have a number of friends on the other side of the pond.  It is big and supports a big RTR industry plus a very big kit industry.  As an old friend of mine once said to me, we are only playing at it compared to the Americans.

 

The hobby is encouraged over there by parents and adults are not shamed to admit that they are involved in the hobby.  I have even been told if you mention at a job interview that you are into Model Railroading the prospective employer would look on you favourably as you would be considered a self motivated person.  That statement came from a top employee at Pacific Fast Mail.

 

Rod Stewart had an Article published about his Railroad in the Model Railroader a few years back and the Guardian Newspaper responded with sensible and well rounded article about it.  What does that tell you, if you are famous and play with toy trains it is ok.

 

Loconuts

[highpeak]

Loconuts is correct in his assessment of the attitude towards the hobby on this side of the pond. The general exchange goes something like this. I mention my interest in model railroads. Whoever I am talking to says something about somebody in their family has/had Lionel trains. I acknowledge that Lionel trains are fine, but explain that my interest lies in making things in HO scale. When the other person understands what this is about, the most common reaction is along the lines of wishing they had a hobby like that.

I have never had my interests mocked in any way. The NMRA calendar is pinned up on my cubicle wall at work for anyone to see. I have no idea why there is such a different attitude in England and frankly feel a bit sorry for people who can't appreciate different interests.

Finally, the biggest railway show in this part of the world is held in four buildings of the Eastern States Exposition Center in Agawam, MA (the Big E, the Springfield show etc). It typically draws around 20,000 visitors over the two day event. I would venture to suggest the majority of them are just Joe Public and his family. The show caters very well to a wide range of interests, hence its enduring popularity.

One of the layouts this year had a small subway system, running naturally enough at a lower level than the mainline tracks above it. It was viewable through a Perspex panel, and since this was an ideal viewing height for small fry, there was always a group of four and five year olds watching for the subway train to come through the scene, make its station stop and depart. I asked one of the mom's if her son had any trains at home. She told me he had some push along trains, played with them a lot, and she hoped he'd stick with the hobby based on what she saw at the show.

Any thoughts that the hobby is dying are misplaced. Changing, but with attitudes like that Mom's, not dying. I think intelligent parents want their kids to get into something more creative than video games.

[Poggy1165]

A cultural factor in the UK may be that engineering (which plays a major part in real railways and a smaller one in models) does not have the social status it enjoys in many comparable countries, such as Germany. Once you understand this, it explains a great deal more than the general attitude to model railways.

 

Added to that is a tendency I first noted about fifteen years ago. That nowadays it is possible to be young, highly intelligent, and hard working and at the same time have no interest in books, or anything of substance other than football and beer. Any form of intellectualism is increasingly despised. It is the society we have built.

[shortliner]

 

 

Added to that is a tendency I first noted about fifteen years ago. That nowadays it is possible to be young, highly intelligent, and hard working and at the same time have no interest in books, or anything of substance other than football and beer. Any form of intellectualism is increasingly despised.

...and yet more and more (both the young, and their parents)seem to believe (been conned into the mind-set) that the thing that will do most for them in their futures is to "Go to University" - instead of "simply plain hard work!" - is this just a case of being unable to get themselves out of "going to school" mode?

 

Grabs Flak Jacket and Kevlar Helmet and departs - although it is a serious comment based, at least in part, upon the number of Westminsterites who went to expensive private schools, followed by University, and thence into politics and have never done a days work outside those environments.  Not wishing to get banned for pollyticking -The parrot who swallowed a watch

[johnarcher]

 

 

Added to that is a tendency I first noted about fifteen years ago. That nowadays it is possible to be young, highly intelligent, and hard working and at the same time have no interest in books, or anything of substance other than football and beer. Any form of intellectualism is increasingly despised. It is the society we have built.

You may be right about this, but I'm not sure it is relevant to attitudes to this hobby. As far as I remember the general public opinion of it wasn't much different even 40 or 50 years ago?

[Ryde-on-time]

IMO A waste of time and last year Marlow Msidenhead Diistruct MRC were invited to have a stand at a craft fair in Maidenhead Nicolsons Walk Sopping Centre on a Saturday when very few people showed any interest so much so we packed up early and left.

 

The usual comment I get is along the lines of "Thomas Tank for adults" or "I just don't get it, grown men playing with trains"

 

We have lost the battle with the public apart from model railway exhibitions which tends to have a good family following as the younger children still like trains until they grow a little older!

 

Enjoy our hobby and forget about the sad people who get more fun out of mocking us rather than looking at what we have achieved!

 

Interesting to read about your experience at a shopping centre as mine was quite the opposite.

 

I am a member of Milton Keynes Model Railway Society who were offered space at a craft event in Middleton Hall, part of central Milton Keynes Shopping centre (outside John Lewis) the first weekend in December to Christmas shopping was in full swing. I helped Saturday morning and Sunday and the response from the public was almost without exception positive

 

The club had 2 motives for being there, to promote the club / attract new members and secondly to promote the clubs exhibition (which was last weekend), especially as the venue had to change

 

We had a number of different layouts, a couple of n gauge ones that people could operate, a OO gauge DCC layout (The sound fitted locos were a real hit as a lot of people were unaware that such things existed), an 0-16.5 narrow gauge layout with exquisite scenery, G scale Thomas and a display of old Marklin models.

 

Most of the men (of all ages) who passed by were surreptitiously trying to look at what we had on display, the women just simply wandered over to look, chat and admire the layouts.

 

The clubs exhibition organising team do an amazing job promoting it and the consensus was that the event in the shopping center helped, especially judging by the record number of visitors. I would definitely recommend it to others

 

[EddieB]

I'm not aware of trainspotting (or plane spotting or bus spotting) in the sense of number gathering outside Britain. I've never seen the French equivalent of an Ian Allan locospotter's book in bookshops not even second hand. I did hear of a lovely exchange between a British spotter and a French cheminot  (rail worker) who was curious about why he was writing down all the numbers and when it was explained asked in all innocence "So when you've collected all of them you get a prize?"

 

I'm not sure how railway enthusiasm in general is regarded in the USA. Modelling and railfanning are clearly large hobbies but are they as a proportion of the population? I have noticed in the excellent Big Bang Theory comedy series that Sheldon's passion for both railroads and model trains is depicted as demonstrating his rather strange personality. 

 

Of course it could be that active railway enthusiasm is simply far more prevalent in Britain (and probably heavily British influenced countries like Australia)  than elsewhere so makes a bigger target; we certainly have far more well founded heritage railways.

Maybe not as pocketable as an "ABC", but my copy of "Etat Numerique du Parc Moteur S.N.C.F." from 1979 is basically a list of loco and m.u. numbers with status and depot allocations.  Otherwise perhaps "les anoraques" buy their books from Platform 5.

 

A cultural factor in the UK may be that engineering (which plays a major part in real railways and a smaller one in models) does not have the social status it enjoys in many comparable countries, such as Germany. Once you understand this, it explains a great deal more than the general attitude to model railways.

 

Added to that is a tendency I first noted about fifteen years ago. That nowadays it is possible to be young, highly intelligent, and hard working and at the same time have no interest in books, or anything of substance other than football and beer. Any form of intellectualism is increasingly despised. It is the society we have built.

Are we in danger of judging by our own criteria?  The new generation of intelligent social introverts are probably more into developing computer games than the hobbies our generation enjoyed.

[Loconuts]

You may be right about this, but I'm not sure it is relevant to attitudes to this hobby. As far as I remember the general public opinion of it wasn't much different even 40 or 50 years ago?

How right you are, I was lucky in having supportive parents and relatives who were craft orientated.

 

How ever 37 years ago I was asked to give a character reference for a friend who was in the military security services.  I was interviewed by two members of that service.  When I mentioned that my friends interest involved building model railway items they immediately shifted the questioning to him being a phedofile.  As far as I know personally none of the railway people I know have been involved in such activities, it seems to me it only apply to MP's, Scouters, Religious organisations, Public school boys and DJ's.

 

Loconuts