Worcestershire Parkway Station - Now Open

[TerrySVR]

A clear benefit of Worcester Parkway would be the ability to park your car near the station. Certainly not the case with the two current stations.

[melmerby]

A clear benefit of Worcester Parkway would be the ability to park your car near the station. Certainly not the case with the two current stations.

It's location means (as is intended) to capture business from people living within a easy drive along the M5.

 

Keith

[Phil Bullock]

Evening folks

 

Although as Dr Beeching discovered once folks are in their car they may not step out again until they reach their destination

 

And given that M5 runs parallel I wonder how substantial traffic will be from that source? M50 catchment might do better

 

Phil

[John_Miles]

more comfortable 170s

 

The above is a quote from Edwin_M. I'm 1.9m tall and I find the 170s very uncomfortable. Not enough leg room.

[John_Miles]

There is a clear need for extra stations in south Gloucester and around Charfield

 

Every time a train stops it reduces line capacity. There are plenty of examples where extra stations would be well patronised - for example Magor between Severn Tunnle Junction and Newport - but it results in fewer trains per hour. The new Worcester Parkway will potentially cause such problems.

[melmerby]

Evening folks

 

Although as Dr Beeching discovered once folks are in their car they may not step out again until they reach their destination

 

And given that M5 runs parallel I wonder how substantial traffic will be from that source? M50 catchment might do better

 

Phil

Things have changed an awful lot since the days of Dr Beeching and the shrinking railway.

A lot of people commute to a station to get a train these days. Just look at the ever expanding car parks at certain stations.

They are trying to get business for the Cotswold line as well, not just Birmingham - Bristol.

 

There has been an announcement today about "possible" electrification from Derby to Bristol.

see here:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/government-pledges-52-billion-boost-8631115

 

Keith

[Phil Bullock]

Ah yes saw that - news story was light on detail though which raises possibility of pre-electoral spin...

 

Phil

[locoholic]

And what are these centres, apart from Cheltenham and Gloucester? How much traffic might they generate? Bear in mind that each stop adds an additional four or five minutes to journey times; too many such stops, and the rail journey become uncompetitive in time terms with express coaches or cars. There might be a case for a semi-fast service from Bristol to Birmingham; I'm not sure if such a thing exists already.

The service on the route his improved considerably since I used it on a weekly basis back in the 1970s; then, it was one train an hour from Birmingham to Bristol.

Yes, I meant a semi-fast service, so that journeys like Stonehouse/Stroud to Bristol, or Gloucester to Worcester have a regular interval service.

[martin_wynne]

The closure of Shrub Hill has been part of previous plans for the 'parkway' station and I wouldn't be at all surprised if that idea again emerges

 

If no-one wants Shrub Hill maybe Chiltern Railways would be interested in getting Shrub Hill and extending their Kidderminster-Marylebone service to include Droitwich and Shrub Hill?

 

Assuming they get the landslip fixed, of course.

 

Martin.

[Phil Bullock]

And Hartlebury would be a good park and ride location....

 

Phil

[melmerby]

If no-one wants Shrub Hill maybe Chiltern Railways would be interested in getting Shrub Hill and extending their Kidderminster-Marylebone service to include Droitwich and Shrub Hill?

 

Assuming they get the landslip fixed, of course.

 

Martin.

Reinstate the LNWR link Oxford Road Jn - Yarnton.

London Marylebone - Princes Risborough - Oxford Parkway - Worcester - Droitwich - Kidderminster - Birmingham Snow Hill anybody?

 

Keith

Edited February 12, 2015 by melmerby

[melmerby]

Ah yes saw that - news story was light on detail though which raises possibility of pre-electoral spin...

 

Phil

When questioned "George" didn't seem to have much in the way of completely new projects.

Much of the cash has been allocated (and sometimes spent already!) from previous announcements.

 

Keith

[Joseph_Pestell]

Ah yes saw that - news story was light on detail though which raises possibility of pre-electoral spin...

 

Phil

 

Very vague - "could include". Definitely electioneering.

 

That said, electrification from Derby to Bristol (in reality, Derby - Birmingham plus Bromsgrove to Bristol Parkway) is a cert once the Great Western and Midland schemes are completed. Most of the complex, expensive stuff will have been done and it will mostly be just a question of wiring up stretches of double track.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Reinstate the LNWR link Oxford Road Jn - Yarnton.

London Marylebone - Princes Risborough - Oxford Parkway - Worcester - Droitwich - Kidderminster - Birmingham Snow Hill anybody?

 

Keith

 

Can't rule it out given Chiltern's record for expansion. But they must be close to a practical limit of how many trains they can run into Marylebone over a double track.

[The Stationmaster]

Can't rule it out given Chiltern's record for expansion. But they must be close to a practical limit of how many trains they can run into Marylebone over a double track.

I would think the main limit on Marylebone would be the number of platforms related to turnround times.  I'm not sure without digging out detail from wherever but I'm fairly sure the signalling south of Neasden is designed for 3 minute headways (at whatever speed) so theoretically it could handle 19 trains per hour.  I expect Rules of the Plan probably call it 4 minutes and it also depends on reoccupation times at the Marylebone end but I still expect it exceeds the workable platform capacity as is the case in many other places (e.g CTRL=HS1 and, so it thus far appears, probably the London end of HS2).

 

In any case it's more likely that stock availability would be a bigger hindrance than pathing south of Neasden.

[28XX]

If no-one wants Shrub Hill maybe Chiltern Railways would be interested in getting Shrub Hill and extending their Kidderminster-Marylebone service to include Droitwich and Shrub Hill?

 

Assuming they get the landslip fixed, of course.

 

Martin.

Its an awfully indirect route to London, I think the CLPG would have a dim view of it too.  That said, the cheapest way to reach the smoke from WR postcodes (allegedly), is to drive to Warwick Parkway, then take Chiltern.

 

The problem with WSH is that it's high maintenance now. The platforms are neither here nor there, its the track and signalling which is old, complex and unnecessary for the traffic demands. It's my home station and part of my life, I'd love it to have a future, but unless some major freight flow emerges, I can't see it.

[Robert Shrives]

HI, The only problem with stopping 170s on the NOT - CDF route is that they are full already!  Platforms on both routes need to be HST sized as well. the 20 minutes/3 per hour XC service level with 3 car 170s  and a mix of 4/5 voyagers and HST looks on paper as a winner but really the Bromsgrove wiring needs a bit of project creep !

 

Yesterday for second time in 3 days the signalling at Bromsgrove just expired , 1S43 dealyed 37 minutes talking past 3 signals. NR Western TRC announced without discussion that 1S45 would be diverted via Kidderminster- adding roundly one hour to a schedule already one hour longer due to Engineering wotk on the mainline at Central Rivers.  This prompts should the thirt line of the junction at Worcester Parkway have platforms otherwise you exclude a parkway opportunity for the City and the Worcester - Gloucester - Brighton! services. Just a project creep thought? from a railway servant!

Robert          

[Phil Bullock]

Spot on Robert

 

The lack of connection with trains using the Norton Junction - Abbotswood Junction Curve is a fundamemtal flaw in this plan

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

[Captain Kernow]

Spot on Robert

 

The lack of connection with trains using the Norton Junction - Abbotswood Junction Curve is a fundamemtal flaw in this plan

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

And as such, I can't see Shrub Hill being closed. The Parkway station will mostly offer new opportunities, as I see it. I can't see anyone travelling from the south to Worcester town centre wanting to get off there and then get a bus, when they could (with a bit of planning) ride right through to Shrub Hill and Foregate Street.

[SM42]

And Hartlebury would be a good park and ride location....

 

Phil

 

Just that the parking bit could be an issue.

 

In the not too distant past there was a service to London Via Kidderminster and Stourbridge.

 

As things stand the in a 20 odd mile radius around Birmingham the rails are getting pretty crowded. With the Bromsgrove electricfication scheme  this is about to get worse on the West Suburban and going via Camp Hill (diesels only at present) just adds to the mele at Proof House. Adding time into schedules heading into this mass by the extra stop is going to take some pretty nifty timetabling, but if it wasn't practical then I don't think this project would have got this far.

 

As for Shrub Hill, I can also still see a role for the station alongside Parkway. It is sort of in Worcester for a start (closer than Parkway)  It  is convenient turn round point for late running norhbound traffic that doesn't clog up the Malvern route and delivers people in the right city in lieiu of Foregate St and it has the capacity to be the terminating point for services to / from  the south west.  (I vaguely recall a Worcester-  Weston Super Mare service at one point. Very useful for visiting a certain emporium in Cheltenham on an afternoon.)

 

Certainly as the city of Worcester expands  then I can see many not wishing to travel out to Parkway to catch a train when there is a much closer railhead in city environs, which with a bit of joined up thinking could be well connected to the rest of the city. In terms of capacity for road/ rail travel interchange it beats Foregate St as it has the room to provide the necessary road vehicle standage.

Parkway I can see would most likely mop up those to the south and east of the city,  the motorway network and interchange between routes

 

I see both stations having  a market, but whether the powers that be see that is another matter.

 

 

 

Andy

Edited February 17, 2015 by SM42

[phil-b259]

Closing stations is a difficult business these days and as such I am sure that the Shrub Hill station will still be open in 50 years time. What sort of train service it gets though is open for debate though as in theory the service could be whittled away to only a couple of 'parliamentary' trains a day.

 

However realistically, I would expect to still see Oxford - Malvin - Hereford services call at all 3 Worcester stations - stopping at Shrub Hill as well as the new Parkway station is hardly going to extend journey times that much. North - south flows are a different matter of course, but as i understand it most bypass Worcester anyway so actually having them stop at a new Parkway station could be an advantage to people living in the general Worcester area (though they may well need a car to get to the Parkway station)..

[melmerby]

 

As things stand the in a 20 odd mile radius around Birmingham the rails are getting pretty crowded. With the Bromsgrove electricfication scheme  this is about to get worse on the West Suburban and going via Camp Hill (diesels only at present) just adds to the mele at Proof House. Adding time into schedules heading into this mass by the extra stop is going to take some pretty nifty timetabling, but if it wasn't practical then I don't think this project would have got this far.

 

 

Andy

There were plans afoot to build a chord from the Camp Hill line to the GWR line to route trains via the West Surburban route into Moor St.

 

Keith

 

EDIT The plans are currently shelved however (due to Birmingham City Council selling some land required for the link), however it is still on Centro's wishlist.

Edited February 16, 2015 by melmerby

[martin_wynne]

In the not too distant past there was a service to London Via Kidderminster and Stourbridge.

 

There still is from Kidderminster. But the difference is it is now a Chiltern service via Snow Hill and Moor Street to Marylebone. It's very popular from Kidderminster. If extended it would no doubt be equally popular from Droitwich. Maybe not so much from Shrub Hill, but that makes a convenient turnback terminal. Not so sure about stopping at Hartlebury.

 

Rebuilding of Kidderminster station has recently been confirmed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-31117511

 

Martin. 

[SM42]

To clarify Martin's comment above, the service I mentioned went via Worcester to Paddington. I can't remember though if started in Birmingham or not. It was one of the few 4 beaters of the day (well the only one on earlies ) that we signalled.

 

 

As for the Kidderminster rebuild (and at the risk of going too off topic, ) all I can say is I hope it is better than the last proposal, but with reduced parking to make a taxi rank to make room for bus  stops for the 2 or 3 buses a day and traffic lights at the station entrance I fear not. It might be quicker to get to Worcester Parkway then. .

 

Andy

Edited February 17, 2015 by SM42

[Joseph_Pestell]

Closing stations is a difficult business these days and as such I am sure that the Shrub Hill station will still be open in 50 years time. What sort of train service it gets though is open for debate though as in theory the service could be whittled away to only a couple of 'parliamentary' trains a day.

 

However realistically, I would expect to still see Oxford - Malvin - Hereford services call at all 3 Worcester stations - stopping at Shrub Hill as well as the new Parkway station is hardly going to extend journey times that much. North - south flows are a different matter of course, but as i understand it most bypass Worcester anyway so actually having them stop at a new Parkway station could be an advantage to people living in the general Worcester area (though they may well need a car to get to the Parkway station)..

 

It's many years since I have been to Worcester. When I was last there, there were acres of empty former railway land adjacent to Shrub Hill. Has that been built on yet? If developed, it should provide plenty of potential users for the railway.