RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted August 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 16, 2018 AM3 under gubbins from a BR discussion paper from the early 60s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Love it, Clive - document based on the trusty old Diagram book, with further detailed annotations, I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signaller69 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 in unrefurbished condition there was a separate rubbing plate above the inner buckeyes (like the ones on the front ends) - when gangwayed, the rubbing plate was naturally part of the gangway.the flat inner ends had two jumper cables between coaches, with a main res. and brake pipe at low level:https://80srail.zenfolio.com/p628303965 (the large rectangular box was only on the MBS and only at this end) when gangwayed, there was one jumper cable each side of the gangway: https://80srail.zenfolio.com/p586036625 Brilliant links thanks! Especially the almost end on view of the MBS. Pretty much confirms my suspicions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signaller69 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 303 under gubbins.png AM3 under gubbins from a BR discussion paper from the early 60s. Thanks Clive, istr you sent me that diagram as I saved it to my photos, very useful as a positioning guide combined with photos for the detail of each component. Love it, Clive - document based on the trusty old Diagram book, with further detailed annotations, I believe. Is there anything similar for the Trailer cars? I've looked at the BR diagram book but it doesn't feature the underframe gubbins. I must do more research! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) Thanks Clive, istr you sent me that diagram as I saved it to my photos, very useful as a positioning guide combined with photos for the detail of each component. Is there anything similar for the Trailer cars? I've looked at the BR diagram book but it doesn't feature the underframe gubbins. I must do more research! Looks very like the one that was at the foot of the Accident report for the Transformer Explosions that I linked to http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_EMUFailures1962.pdf it shows the trailer cars as well Jim Edited August 16, 2018 by luckymucklebackit 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted August 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 16, 2018 Looks very like the one that was at the foot of the Accident report for the Transformer Explosions that I linked to http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_EMUFailures1962.pdf it shows the trailer cars as well Jim Hi Jim I would imagine they both came from the same source, or even the same draftsman. The drawing I posted came from "British Railways Electrification Conference 1960, Railway Electrification at Industrial Frequency". A document I downloaded originally for the information on OLE it contained but it also had similar underframe drawings for the AM2, 4 and 5. AM8s having very similar ones to AM2s. It is a wonderful document as includes information on OLE, multiple units and locos, ideal for those of us who realise the modernisation wasn't just diesel locos. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signaller69 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 (edited) Here is a link to my class 303 photos hopefully they will give you inspiration or help with details for your model http://darrels.smugmug.com/Trains/Class-303/As this old link no longer appeared to work, Darrel has kindly sent me another link to access them, a wealth of photos including great detail shots is contained within. https://darrels.smugmug.com/Trains/Class-303/i-5dSNmMn Thanks Darrel! Martyn. Edited August 17, 2018 by Signaller69 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signaller69 Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Another RMweb Class 303 thread I'd missed until now; added for reference. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/47998-class-303s-in-strathclyde/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagonmaster Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just found this thread on the 303's, very interesting and informative. I too have a DC Kits model under construction, but I am struggling with a few details. I'm building one in 'as built' condition. I'm hoping for some help or pointers please. Basically, it's the car end detail. There are lots of photographs showing front views, but none that I've seen showing the various cars inner ends. There appears to be two jumper cables and what looks like the communication cord mechanism(?) and tell tales at the top below the cantrail. Where these on all cars, including the NDMBS and if so, which end? I've heard mention of some larger boxes on the NDMBS, but is this both ends or just the brake end? And finally, were there any vertical hand rails, as on some other contemporary units. Any help gratefully received. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signaller69 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 28 minutes ago, Wagpnmaster said: Just found this thread on the 303's, very interesting and informative. I too have a DC Kits model under construction, but I am struggling with a few details. I'm building one in 'as built' condition. I'm hoping for some help or pointers please. Basically, it's the car end detail. There are lots of photographs showing front views, but none that I've seen showing the various cars inner ends. There appears to be two jumper cables and what looks like the communication cord mechanism(?) and tell tales at the top below the cantrail. Where these on all cars, including the NDMBS and if so, which end? I've heard mention of some larger boxes on the NDMBS, but is this both ends or just the brake end? And finally, were there any vertical hand rails, as on some other contemporary units. Any help gratefully received. Hi, there are several photos of car inner ends on Darrel's Smugmug pages, well worth a trawl through: https://darrels.smugmug.com/Trains/Class-303/ though I'm not 100% sure if there were differences between as built and later conditions. The large box you refer to was only on the pantograph end of the MBS, for HT electrical equipment iirc. (See photo with the Marklin panto box below, again Darrels photos show this too). Darrell has also commented on this thread and is a font of knowledge on matters 303/311 related. My unit is in 1970ish condition, with full windscreens (and still not 100% finished). I have not added the inner end cables as yet, just the connection boxes. The underframe equipment on all vehicles is my interpretation based mainly on Darrels photos. Note the driving ends are a DTS (pantograph end of the set iirc) and a BDTS (non pantograph end), the latter having extra underfloor equipment for the Battery storage. If there is anything else, ask away! Martyn. 10 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagonmaster Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Martyn, Many thanks for your quick reply and very helpful information and photographs. You have just about covered all my queries. I seem to have gone down a different avenue with motorising the unit. I have used one of Chris Gibbon's excellent High Level Lo Rider motor bogies that produces a good smooth controllable performance. Amply powerful enough for this unit. Thanks again 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagonmaster Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Another request for help. My 303, in as built condition, is nearing the paintshop. Whereas I'm happy to use Precision Paints BR Caledonian Blue for the main body, what should I use for the roof? Tye roof looks almost white on photographs, but I'm told it was either silver or light grey. Any ideas on the shade? Would BR Rail Grey be somewhere near? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagonmaster Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Me again with more queries. I've been reading the Glasgow Electric book published around the launch of the system. In the book, it mentions the interior decor, stating that two coaches have the grey striped seats and one coach green material. Unfortunately, it doesn't say which coach has which! Anybody know which coach had the green seats? Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 13 hours ago, Wagpnmaster said: Me again with more queries. I've been reading the Glasgow Electric book published around the launch of the system. In the book, it mentions the interior decor, stating that two coaches have the grey striped seats and one coach green material. Unfortunately, it doesn't say which coach has which! Anybody know which coach had the green seats? Steve Just at a guess from the 2 to 1 ratio in 3 car units would the driving outer ends be the grey striped seats while the middle coach be the green material. Otherwise you'd have some driving ends with grey and some with green Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagonmaster Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 3 hours ago, GordonC said: Just at a guess from the 2 to 1 ratio in 3 car units would the driving outer ends be the grey striped seats while the middle coach be the green material. Otherwise you'd have some driving ends with grey and some with green That would seem the logical arrangement, but I wondered if anyone knew for definite. All the interior photos I've seen are of the DTS's with their stripey grey moquette. Unfortunately the photos don't identify the car interiors as the DTSO or the BDTSO, so I reckon they were both grey. Glasgow Electric book does show an MBS with the doors open, but you cannot see the seats! Bargin book though, only 3/6! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) Not sure where this idea of "grey" seating is coming from, my memory is of the seating being predominantly brown as can be seen in the bottom photograph in the DTS, the pattern is stripes of black, dark brown and beige. I do remember the alternative pattern, which is shown in the middle photograph unfortunately in black and white from the "Glasgow Electric" booklet, something in my memory (that may be flawed) was that the alternative moquette was used in the centre coach was only used in the two end (no smoking?) compartments, the third photo show this but shows a red fabric that I cannot remember Edited May 26, 2020 by luckymucklebackit 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) Close up of the brown fabric http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/photo/scaled/6191/ Edited May 26, 2020 by luckymucklebackit 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Just noticed that the George Blake book says - "There is no distinction of classes, but there is a pleasant variety in the interior decoration. The upholstery is in moquette, but in two quite different moods, so to speak. The dominant fabric is striped horizontally, giving the general effect of a light, gay beige, but at least one coach in most trains is upholstered in a deep but warm green" Still cant get my head around that picture though!! Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westie7 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 5 hours ago, luckymucklebackit said: Close up of the brown fabric http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/photo/scaled/6191/ Wow, Can almost smell it. That main picture fairly brings back some memories. Cheers Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagonmaster Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Thanks for the replies on this query. 'Grey' may have been the wrong description on my part! The striped material looks the same as used in the AM4's that I am used to. They gave the appearance of a grey look to me. However, the mention of green was interesting and the black and white photo certainly shows a different pattern. Would this be a similar green to that used in the Swindon Cross Country 120 units I wonder? The other picture of the MBSO does show a red seat. No mention of that in the Blake book, just the green. I think I'm just going to have to paint these seats as striped beige in the DTS's and as suggested, in the MBSO red in the end compartments. If new evidence turns up later, I can always repaint them! The model is DCC fitted and will have internal carriage lighting, so the interior will be visible. That's the trouble with fitting lighting! The model has been painted using Precision BR Caledonian Blue now. It does look a lot darker than can be seen in most period photographs, especially in the Blake book. Look at that MBSO for instance! Looks like Sky Blue. Other period photos do indicate a darker shade, so I guess this is a problem with early colour film and reproduction playing tricks. The Precision shade however, is spot on for the two repaints that occurred later with 303 001 and latterly 303 048. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfofBadenoch Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 I've posted this photo elsewhere on the forum. It shows two Duchesses that were painted in the Pressed Steel factory in Linwood with the same paint that was being painted on the 303s. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signaller69 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 8 hours ago, Wagpnmaster said: Thanks for the replies on this query. 'Grey' may have been the wrong description on my part! The striped material looks the same as used in the AM4's that I am used to. They gave the appearance of a grey look to me. However, the mention of green was interesting and the black and white photo certainly shows a different pattern. Would this be a similar green to that used in the Swindon Cross Country 120 units I wonder? The other picture of the MBSO does show a red seat. No mention of that in the Blake book, just the green. I think I'm just going to have to paint these seats as striped beige in the DTS's and as suggested, in the MBSO red in the end compartments. If new evidence turns up later, I can always repaint them! The model is DCC fitted and will have internal carriage lighting, so the interior will be visible. That's the trouble with fitting lighting! The model has been painted using Precision BR Caledonian Blue now. It does look a lot darker than can be seen in most period photographs, especially in the Blake book. Look at that MBSO for instance! Looks like Sky Blue. Other period photos do indicate a darker shade, so I guess this is a problem with early colour film and reproduction playing tricks. The Precision shade however, is spot on for the two repaints that occurred later with 303 001 and latterly 303 048. Forgive me if you have seen the photos on this site, the shade of blue looks quite dark in some of the early 60s photos. There are some interior shots too. http://www.eastbank.org.uk/303.htm Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signaller69 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Another thread from RMweb this time, with early class 303 photos here: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagonmaster Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Thanks for the link Martyn, I had already seen this site and found the info useful. To illustrate what I mean, I've posted a photo below of one of the DTS's with it's initial paint job. A lot of work needed yet, as you can see. But it is quite dark in comparison to some photos. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 You need to get the blue mixed with free issue white! Although from what I have heard that story has been debunked. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now