'CHARD Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Hi baby deltic, I like the class 20's 25's and 33's. I do not know too much about the detail of the locos or history, just the look of them. Cheers. Brain Lima didn't turn its hand to the 25, for better or worse! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Lima didn't turn its hand to the 25, for better or worse! I remember seeing their last catalogue listing a class 45 and 46 as their next models. Didn't happen either. Maybe for better rather than worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Darren here has his opinion, which is not without merit. If you are a box opener, content to tip onto truck and run around in circles without wanting to get involved in any irritating matters such as lubricating drive trains and cleaning contacts, then I would follow advice (it is true that more modern stock is more tolerant of poor maintenance). The old Lima models had very poor motors in them and would not run very well at slow speed, personally I would not buy any old Lima loco's as they are no way up to anything of modern standard. Perhaps they bought out all the BRITISH outline, but Lima mad far more than just British stuff. Actually, I think you will find that Hornby bought all of Lima's assets, not just some of the loco's. Not forgetting the 31, which most more clued up modellers/ rail enthusiasts rate more highly than the Hornby version. Also (and I accept that this is not a universal opinion) many people have suggested that the 47 is the most '47ish' of all the available models (it's cab windows are iffy it has to be said- so thanks for Shawplan/EE). Whilst this is generally true, there are some notable exceptions - the HST and Class 101 being two of their better models. Motors are a lucky dip - some are good and some aren't, but you can get remotoring kits which don't cost the Earth and you end up with a passable model for not very much money. Overall I like Lima. I started with Lima stuff after a 20 year break as it was cheap to practice on, compared to a £150 bach-by model. However, looking at many of the bach-by models I think you need to do about the same amount of work, so I opted to start with a Lima anyway. You will get some sneering types who accuse those who are pro-Lima of only buying Lima (or Hornby RR) to save money- but after you add on all the optional extras, such as Shawplan/Craftsman/paint etc it isn't any cheaper- especially if you are going to re-motor it. But that is "modelling"- what those types talk about is "box opening". Have fun with it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The Lima 47 is too narrow, maybe thats why so many think it looks right as on OO track the proportions are are equally wrong as to appear right. Maybe we should have all locos and stock 4mm:ft in length and 3.5mm:ft in width! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Oh really? The Lima 47 is too narrow, maybe thats why so many think it looks right as on OO track I don't suppose you would care to furnish the rest of us with more specific details regarding your 'observation', would you?You will undoubtedly note that there are some pretty decent EM or P4 layouts with Lima 47's running around- and they look just right on 18mm track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Oh really? I don't suppose you would care to furnish the rest of us with more specific details regarding your 'observation', would you? You will undoubtedly note that there are some pretty decent EM or P4 layouts with Lima 47's running around- and they look just right on 18mm track. Not an observation as far as I was aware, I thought it was a well known fact. maybe someone who has one still could measure it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Not an observation as far as I was aware, I thought it was a well known fact. maybe someone who has one still could measure it. Doesn't seem to have been a main issue. Good summary here: http://www.p4newstreet.com/why-are-all-4mm-scale-duffs-kinda-duff.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Well known facts... I love them. Not an observation as far as I was aware, I thought it was a well known fact. maybe someone who has one still could measure it. It was once a well known fact that the planet was flat and that the moon was made of cheese Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The Lima 47 is too narrow, maybe thats why so many think it looks right as on OO track the proportions are are equally wrong as to appear right. Maybe we should have all locos and stock 4mm:ft in length and 3.5mm:ft in width! Well I just measured mine at 35.7mm, as the original according Wiki is 8' 10" I would say that is pretty damn close. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Q.E.D. Well I just measured mine at 35.7mm, as the original according Wiki is 8' 10" I would say that is pretty damn close. "Beware of people who know less than they think."This is one of the wisest sayings I have read on here. Is it copyrighted? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Q.E.D. "Beware of people who know less than they think." Is it copyrighted? Unlikely it was one of the sayings my old foreman used to remind me of when I was an apprentice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I stand corrected, must have a word in the earhole of a well known detail parts maker who let me to believe otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giggle pin Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 My thread has been taken over by rivet counting. Eek Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisH-UK Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 My thread has been taken over by rivet counting. Eek If you think this is rivet counting... well I hope you never experience it in full-force Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Sorry about that. But as we were talking about 47's I feel it appropriate in view of your comment, to point out that the Brush 4 was mostly welded, with very few rivets used. I think it more relevant to discuss which TYPE of rivets were used, where appropriate, on the locomotive in question. For example were they solid or tubular, friction or locking. Surely they cannot be "blind" rivets (or pop rivets if you prefer). Perhaps they were the ultimate rivet- AVDELock?So more pertinent than the NUMBER of rivets is in fact the type, size and location. My thread has been taken over by rivet counting. Eek Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Hi, I still run Lima classes 156, 101, 87 and HST's The power bogies are all basically the same mechanisms - crude by todays standards, but if they are stripped down, cleaned and properly (very lightly) lubricated they perform well. There is a great service guide on YouTube - search for Lima Loco Service Guide by Mikes Movies (apologies, can't seem to copy and paste the link). All mine have been so treated - I use a little Labelle Grease and Labelle light oil which I find excellent. My Lima Locos crawl smoothly and as slowly as modern Bachmann and Hornby. I have also fitted 156's and HST's with extra wheel pick ups from trailing cars. If you want to use Lima on DCC then decoders need to be hard wired in - an easy job. There is a RMW topic on that. One word of warning. Lima wheel flanges are deep and will only run well on Peco code 100 and Hornby track. Biggest problem is keeping the wheels clean. They are made of brass coloured metal and seem to collect dirt more readily than other makes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Cravensdmufan, Good to see another person with this attitude. I think there's actually quite a few of us out there, but most say little to avoid arguments with the "if it's old, it's rubbish" brigade.I have re-wheeled a 47 and 60 with Alan Gibson (to P4, but OO is available) and that improves running and appearance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted March 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2015 Limas biggest plus..... Nobody has every turfed out liveries as quick as lima!!!! The last of the lima 31s and 37s (mainline grey livery) and i think.....156s were actually fitted with nickel silver wheels and lower profile flanges, not quite on the scale of todays models but enough to avoid "jumping" over point frogs....and this improoved running immensely....a nickle silver wheeled 31 can be spotted on ebay by having a dark blue box with Lima Models in Italics...... the bulk of my 31 fleet is still lima....although sadly i dispensed with the chassis in favour of the Hornby railroad version, which does improove on the lima pancake in atleast noise........however both of my mk3 rakes are lima and i have no plans to replace them! Same with my PGA fleet and the curtain vans ive just taken delivery of. I still stand by my opinion that the lima class 47 bogie is the best 47 bogie ive seen to date! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 That's very interesting - I never knew any Lima were fitted with nickel silver wheels. I'll be looking out for the dark blue boxes at toyfairs! Very much agree about Mk3's and 47 bogies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted March 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2015 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LIMA-OO-PETROLEUM-SECTOR-CLASS-31-185-DIESEL-LOCOMOTIVE-/201290134409?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2eddd3b389 there you go...... look closely at the wheels.....and no its not a trick of the light! note also the box...my mistake its not lima models it's Lima Train Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted March 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2015 another one for you (you can see i have a soft spot for lima) http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_06_2011/post-6733-0-60712500-1307174439_thumb.jpg on the right of the photo....on the primary coil spring you still note a square box with holes in it..... LIMA are the only people to ever model that on a 47 bogie.....neither Bachmann or Heljan or Hornby have done it....... Vitrains have however....which reinforces mine and some other's belief that the vitrains 47 and possibly 37 were originally unreleased/unfinished lima models! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I would agree with you on all your points, including the bogies. But there is an error with them- the secondman side should not have the air pipes on it. But you are right that the bogie is far more accurate and well defined than some others. I have to say that I think the Bachmann one is pretty poor indeed. That 'box with the holes in it' is actually a plate that hangs down in front of the spring (no idea of its function). But I agree that Lima are the only ones to really bother looking at the models they make. In China, they are thousands of miles away and only have CAD to go by. Lima were well known for showing pre-production models to those who really knew what they were talking about- and actually coming here in person to compare the model to prototype. And it shows. another one for you (you can see i have a soft spot for lima) http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_06_2011/post-6733-0-60712500-1307174439_thumb.jpg on the right of the photo....on the primary coil spring you still note a square box with holes in it..... LIMA are the only people to ever model that on a 47 bogie.....neither Bachmann or Heljan or Hornby have done it....... Vitrains have however....which reinforces mine and some other's belief that the vitrains 47 and possibly 37 were originally unreleased/unfinished lima models! I still stand by my opinion that the lima class 47 bogie is the best 47 bogie ive seen to date! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 My thread has been taken over by rivet counting. Eek This from someone who signs as Brian one post and Brain the next! Only kidding. I've a substantial fleet of Lima 31s, 40s and 47s where the need for quantity is overriding over “quality” in the banger blue era set up. I never could get over the lacklustre tumblehome or non available bufferbeam skirt on the 37 though so ditched my Lima pair as soon as the Bachmann Tractor became available. C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Just came accross this link giving useful information on improving performance of Lima mechanisms. www. chippedblade.wordpress.com/index/improve-the-performance-of-old-lima-motors/ I have managed to get mine to run super smoothly - just the wheels need frequent cleaning. Replacement wheels are available http://ultrascale.com but I have not tried them so would welcome other members views and any advice on these. Thanks. Edited to show correct link. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 here we go again.... Derek has his view on lima . Clearly he's not a " box opener " but a " clued up modeller ". We must bow to his expertise . Well, I had about 30 Lima a long time back.. On the plus sides, they produce a lot of liveries and some of the body types are accurate in shape. On the minus, you have a reasonable chance of getting one that doesn't run well, as the motor is crude . The chassis is crude cheap plastic, the wheels are from a steam roller and the couplings are huge. Everything about them is crude compared with today's models. If your on a budget and require lots of locos it's worth a go, if not I'd save up for something a bit more sophisticated. It can of course be fun to detail them if that is your thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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