Garden Sheds

[Budgie]

If no one complains how would they know?

They would find out when you try to sell the property, and the buyer's surveyor queries it with the council. (Happened to a friend of mine.)

[Butler Henderson]

What about a caravan?

My son bought a spectacular Airstream as a shell - had it repolished and delivered. Now it is fitted out as his office across the yard from his house and is much admired by the neighbours.

dh

If it just parked like any other vehicle then unlikely to be any issues. If had acquired a degree of permanence, especially if fixed connections have be made to mains supplies then issues could arise.

 

They would find out when you try to sell the property, and the buyer's surveyor queries it with the council. (Happened to a friend of mine.)

Make sure you do not sell a property for at least 4 years from doing the work if you can. Will not stop a solicitor querying the matter, but if it can be clearly demonstrated it is 4+ years old then the council will not be interested - the problem usually is a solicitor who is not skilled on planning matters not understanding the "4 year rule".

[hayfield]

This may help as a quick guide, with the normal privoso of not being in a conservation ares/listed/covenants

 

Sheds and greenhouses do not cover more than half of the area of the garden; not including the area occupied by the house.
It contains no sleeping accommodation and the floor area does not exceed 15 square metres.
No point is less than one metre from a boundary.
It is not more than 3m high for a flat roof, or 4m with a ridged roof.
Overall height from ground level to ridge must not exceed more than 2.5 metres within a 2 metre range of any boundary. A building with overall height exceeding 2.5 mtrs in height and placed within 2 metres of any boundary will require planning permission.
Height of the eaves must not exceed 2.5 metres.
No part projects beyond any wall of the house that faces a road.
The outbuilding is for use only by those who occupy the house.
A Log Cabin should be more than 5 metres from the main dwelling and up to 50% of the remaining garden can be utilised with this type of building.
No verandas higher than 30cms from ground level.
Building Regulations do state that structures built of combustible material (i.e. a wooden shed) must be at least 2 metres from the main house.
If at all in doubt contact your local authority for clarification. No charge will be made if no planning permission is required.

[hayfield]

They would find out when you try to sell the property, and the buyer's surveyor queries it with the council. (Happened to a friend of mine.)

 

This also goes for all work carried both in and outside, it may not be the case of an inexperienced solicitor, but where the solicitors ask a standard set of catch all questions, who then expect that despite how long ago it happened, all paperwork is available.

 

In our previous property we had some friends who sold our old house to the person who sold it to us, for some reason they still had the plans and planning permission for extensions they had built. Not needed 30 years ago when we bought the house, but very handy when we sold it last year

[chris p bacon]

 There have been quite a few bits and pieces built around here recently that should have had planning permission, but definitely did not and unless someone complains, the local authority planning people don't seem to be be bothered.

 As an example of how stupid Planning enforcement can get we have 5 cases in our locality which are current/ongoing

 

1. Building in open countryside over a period of time for a business that works in steel fabrication, one building built without permision was 7M tall. -  No action taken and application for retrospective planning received which was delegated for officer approval. This was after numerous queries about the site from neighbours over a period of 7 years.

2 Timber yard built on the site of a veg prepackers -  initial permission was for hard standing storage and one fabrication shed, site now has 6 large sheds (think 10,000square Metres of floor area) it also has regular helicopter landing, access to the site is along a public footpath as Highways agency won't allow egress onto the A1. Most permissions given are retrospective CBC planning enforcement are worse than useless over this one and have actively encouraged the site. The locals aren't against the business (Truss manufacturer) but the access which is across a village green and a footpath,  The lorries are now taking shortcuts across the A1 through a Tractor/farm access which leaves a trailer across the Northbound carriageway.

 

3 Shed -  Lady builds shed to groom her & Daughters dogs in at bottom of garden, neighbour queries with CBC about having a larger shed at the bottom of his garden and when CBC visit to determine see the lady's shed. Enforcement taken against her to stop the grooming as they perceive it to be a business and to remove the shed.  For info the Shed backs onto open ground.

 

4 Man Shed -  in the locality of the shed above, CBC are now keeping an eye on what goes on, they have spotted a "Man shed" where the home owner has Home brew, as he has mates visit and they retire to the shed to sample the brew CBC are now determining that this is a pub and are starting enforcement action.  -  this is ongoing 

 

5 Garden Pergola -  Lady has Garden feature built in 200' X 60' garden (in middle of town) , A pergola for roses, consists of 6 posts 2.1M tall. Enforcement taken by CBC to remove the feature as no planning application received for it - Case abandoned by CBC when Councillor steps in to investigate,  finds no record of complaint over the pergola so the presumption is that it was just the opinion of the CBC officer.

 

For any shed in the garden (secure & insulated rather than something small for spades/forks) I would write to the local authority and get their opinion over whether it is Permitted development. Saves lots of bother in the long run.

[bourneagain]

An installation of a large shed with a high level of insulation, power, water and security system may not be construed with some Local Authorities as just a hobby shed but could be the cover for an illegal bed in sheds building. Unfortunately there have been a high number of instances where this has been the case, resulting in the LA refusing permission for its installation or order its removal. So if you happen to reside in an area where this problem is prevalent it may be worth getting in touch with your LA and your neighbours (if you are on speaking terms) to reassure them that this is not the case.

Yes it sounds rather stupid to make this suggestion, but if you work in a LA Department dealing with these issues you will soon realise what lengths some of these characters will go to deceive the Council and cover up their highly profitable, unsafe, illegal activity, so making life for the rest of their community very difficult. 

[JJGraphics]

 

If no one complains how would they know?

 

 

They know in some cases. What I was applying for Planning Permission to do has been done without permission on a number of properties similar to mine on a nearby road.

 

I was pretty sure I did need Planning Permission and when I checked, I was told, Yes". When I queried about the other works that had already been done, the planning officer said, "Yes, we know, but we simply don't have time to do anything about it!"

[runs as required]

As an example of how stupid Planning enforcement can get we have 5 cases in our locality which are current/ongoing

 

4... CBC are now keeping an eye on what goes on.

Sorry, I must be a bit out of touch - what does CBC stand for?

Is it what we used to term an LPA (Local Planning Authority)?

 

I have found LPAs very unhelpful these days about enquiries from the general public about planning issues.

No longer does it seem possible to make a casual phone call or call in at an 'Enquiry desk'.

dh

[ianh1]

In response to an earlier question, once I had to apply for planning permission, it got more complicated. We live in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty and the county includes 2 National Parks. All the local builders I've talked to say that there is a big difference with us and the county to the south, they are more pragmatic. So I had to engage a planning consultant to make sure that our application included all of the right buzzwords for the application. His cost was fairly reasonable. Having applied for planning permission, we then had to apply for building permission. We were told that as we live in a high wind area, we had to do calculations to prove that it wouldn't blow over. That's in spite of the fact that high ground to the west of us protects us from the prevailing winds. Once the building inspectors saw the amount of concrete going into the footings, they seemed to be happy.

 

On another point, there's no way that roof is going to come off! Think of the inverse to "because of hardly any screws etc holding it down." I always wanted to a roof but I don't want to do another one!

[Butler Henderson]

An installation of a large shed with a high level of insulation, power, water and security system may not be construed with some Local Authorities as just a hobby shed but could be the cover for an illegal bed in sheds building.

Good point raised there. The sticky bit in the legislation is that an outbuilding cannot be a dwelling. Now as with much planning legislation this ruling has been a pay packet for solicitors and the current line of thought, as best as I can make it out, is that an outbuilding, as a "permitted development" cannot contain any room that you would expect to find in the dwelling.

 

So I had to engage a planning consultant to make sure that our application included all of the right buzzwords for the application.

Find that difficult to believe, expect there were glazed eyes in the relevant planning department when they read, or more likely skimmed through, the documentation.

[ianh1]

"more likely skimmed through"

 

Yes, I agree with you there

[chris p bacon]

Sorry, I must be a bit out of touch - what does CBC stand for?

Is it what we used to term an LPA (Local Planning Authority)?

 

I have found LPAs very unhelpful these days about enquiries from the general public about planning issues.

No longer does it seem possible to make a casual phone call or call in at an 'Enquiry desk'.

dh

Ooops, should have been a bit clearer.

 

CBC -  Central Bedfordshire Council.

 

Bad habits with work, we don't refer to them as LPA as we could be working with one of 3 that are within 5 miles of home, CBC, BB (Bedford Borough) and HDC (Huntingdonshire district council) the latter 2 are good and are very helpful, CBC are just about the most useless, they have now started to refuse a high percentage of applications so that they get a definative outcome at appeal.

[chris p bacon]

So I had to engage a planning consultant to make sure that our application included all of the right buzzwords for the application.

 

 

Find that difficult to believe, expect there were glazed eyes in the relevant planning department when they read, or more likely skimmed through, the documentation.

Planning consultants can be worth their weight in gold. 

 

On the project I am now working on I initially did the application myself. The LPA  insisted that I had to sign the documentation for a section 106 charge against the property ((£6,000+  plus the fees for me and CBC, so £7,000+) I disagreed as there had been specific instructions from Central government that a project such as mine wasn't applicable to the scheme. The LPA insisted it was and wouldn't budge, I either paid or the application would not be registered (no right of appeal) I engaged a Planning consultant who agreed that I was correct and in 2 days had the application accepted with no Section 106 to pay and an apology from the LPA.

[ianh1]

I used a planning consultant as the shed had been designed to comply with the rules that didn't require planning permission. It was within the domestic curtillage so I thought the planning consultant would help my case. We thought we were winning when the council unearthed a document which implied the shed had been used as a mushroom house in the fifties

[Budgie]

... the current line of thought, as best as I can make it out, is that an outbuilding, as a "permitted development" cannot contain any room that you would expect to find in the dwelling.

Not even a toilet?

[Butler Henderson]

Not even a toilet?

Suspect not but no doubt someone will judge otherwise and it will probably end up in the High Court!

[hayfield]

 As an example of how stupid Planning enforcement can get we have 5 cases in our locality which are current/ongoing

 

1. Building in open countryside over a period of time for a business that works in steel fabrication, one building built without permision was 7M tall. -  No action taken and application for retrospective planning received which was delegated for officer approval. This was after numerous queries about the site from neighbours over a period of 7 years.

2 Timber yard built on the site of a veg prepackers -  initial permission was for hard standing storage and one fabrication shed, site now has 6 large sheds (think 10,000square Metres of floor area) it also has regular helicopter landing, access to the site is along a public footpath as Highways agency won't allow egress onto the A1. Most permissions given are retrospective CBC planning enforcement are worse than useless over this one and have actively encouraged the site. The locals aren't against the business (Truss manufacturer) but the access which is across a village green and a footpath,  The lorries are now taking shortcuts across the A1 through a Tractor/farm access which leaves a trailer across the Northbound carriageway.

 

3 Shed -  Lady builds shed to groom her & Daughters dogs in at bottom of garden, neighbour queries with CBC about having a larger shed at the bottom of his garden and when CBC visit to determine see the lady's shed. Enforcement taken against her to stop the grooming as they perceive it to be a business and to remove the shed.  For info the Shed backs onto open ground.

 

4 Man Shed -  in the locality of the shed above, CBC are now keeping an eye on what goes on, they have spotted a "Man shed" where the home owner has Home brew, as he has mates visit and they retire to the shed to sample the brew CBC are now determining that this is a pub and are starting enforcement action.  -  this is ongoing 

 

5 Garden Pergola -  Lady has Garden feature built in 200' X 60' garden (in middle of town) , A pergola for roses, consists of 6 posts 2.1M tall. Enforcement taken by CBC to remove the feature as no planning application received for it - Case abandoned by CBC when Councillor steps in to investigate,  finds no record of complaint over the pergola so the presumption is that it was just the opinion of the CBC officer.

 

For any shed in the garden (secure & insulated rather than something small for spades/forks) I would write to the local authority and get their opinion over whether it is Permitted development. Saves lots of bother in the long run.

 

 

Chris

 

It also depends on who you are. where I used to live a couple from Southall moved in, they applied to extend their property. No one objected to the extension so it went ahead. The builders were a nightmare, damaging the semi house it was joined to several times, rubbish blowing all over the place and there for the best part of 15 mths

 

However they built a shed at the bottom of the garden, brick and tiled. Massive thing with French doors, separate windows, electricity and running water. The neighbours complained and it was found to exceed permitted development by half a meter in height. They applied for retrospective planning, despite many letters (all) against the development, it was passed with the proviso no one lived in it. It even had a small kitchen in it despite the main houses kitchen being less than 20 yards away. Sometimes one wonders if councils are all to quick to bend over backwards to cultural minorities for fear of racial complaints, as there was another matter which affected the whole village where they gave some obscure ruling where minorities should be treated differently 

 

As an aside the owners who in the end fell out with the builders told us that the Councils building control department had put the builders on an exclusion list and some house holders from a different area contacted us for evidence as the builders had left their house uninhabitable after carrying out work 

[rockershovel]

Re #67, our neighbours a few doors along, constructed an extension at least as big as the original house, plus an annexe at the bottom of the garden AND a concrete garage converted to a bedsit, over a period of about fifteen years. They did much of the work themselves, he being a bricklayer by trade. They ran it as a B&B for a number of years and if there were ever any planning issues, I never heard about it.

 

That said, abuse and outright disregard of planning, overcrowding and ad-hoc conversions accommodating (mostly) East European migrant workers are common in East Anglia and the planners do absolutely nothing. No 1 Son and Daughter have both bought houses in the past two or three years and I saw some real shockers while accompanying them on viewings... the garage across the corner has been bought by an Asian "investor" following the death of its former (Italian) owner and immediately reorganised itself as a second-hand sales business, which the previous owner was repeatedly prevented from doing by planners....

 

When I built an extension in the late 90s, I wanted to re-roof the garage and incorporate a toilet accessible from the garage, because I thought it would be useful. After considerable negotiation and redrawing of plans, the solution proved to be to make the door between them Fire-resistant with a lock on the inside (house side) only, so the door can be opened but not locked from the garage. This ALSO disposed of the paradoxical situation whereby the garage (built in the 1960s with, AFAIK, no planning consent of any sort) did not meet Building Regs (having single brick walls on two sides and no insulation) and could not be incorporated in the house in any case...

[hayfield]

twenty five years ago the neighbour at the bottom of the garden (it ran 90 degrees to mine as the house was in the next road) had a brick shed more than 2 m from the boundaries so was quite large, he was a model maker and worked from home. He and his wife split up and the house was sold to an Indian, who extended it on two sides and upwards. He employed a Chinese builder and the builders employees all lived in the brick shed whilst building the extension. I found this quite amusing at the time, no doubt Lional would have as well. Now however being more aware of how illegal migrants are abused would report this to the authorities

[rockershovel]

... although none of that was unusual in the construction trade. You might recall that in one series the Auf Wiedersehen Pet characters did pretty much this (I think, in Spain?). I've lived in caravans parked in odd corners of sites, and I once worked with a chap who worked on land rigs around the Notts/Yorks area and camped in summer, sometimes in lay-bys and once on a roundabout!

[hayfield]

Just had a thought, I inherited a shed at the bottom of the garden when we moved last year. Its a nice sturdy shed (built by a company in the village) and I did a bit of renovation work on it last year.

 

I am in the process of moving it from its current position against the rear boundary buy centrally sited to the rear boundary but in the corner. We are in the process of starting a rear extension and did obtain planning permission for said extension, as far as I am concerned I don't need permission to move it, as it will be either the same height or lower and the neighbour is OK with it

 

But what will the council say when they come to inspect the building work ?

[rockershovel]

Just had a thought, I inherited a shed at the bottom of the garden when we moved last year. Its a nice sturdy shed (built by a company in the village) and I did a bit of renovation work on it last year.

 

I am in the process of moving it from its current position against the rear boundary buy centrally sited to the rear boundary but in the corner. We are in the process of starting a rear extension and did obtain planning permission for said extension, as far as I am concerned I don't need permission to move it, as it will be either the same height or lower and the neighbour is OK with it

 

But what will the council say when they come to inspect the building work ?

Sounds as though your best course of action, would be to leave the shed alone until you finish the building work, and never find out...

[Butler Henderson]

Just had a thought, I inherited a shed at the bottom of the garden when we moved last year. Its a nice sturdy shed (built by a company in the village) and I did a bit of renovation work on it last year.

 

I am in the process of moving it from its current position against the rear boundary buy centrally sited to the rear boundary but in the corner. We are in the process of starting a rear extension and did obtain planning permission for said extension, as far as I am concerned I don't need permission to move it, as it will be either the same height or lower and the neighbour is OK with it

 

But what will the council say when they come to inspect the building work ?

Depends on how picky the Building Control Officer is - they are separate from the Planning Officers and work to completely different legislation. Also if they have never been to the site before how are they to know the shed moved?

[chris p bacon]

Depends on how picky the Building Control Officer is - they are separate from the Planning Officers and work to completely different legislation. Also if they have never been to the site before how are they to know the shed moved?

They'd see the legs on it......

[hayfield]

Just about to go out and try to finish the base, have managed to keep a large Azalea bush in front of the front corner, perhaps a rose arch in front of the door and need a space for a very large Fuchsia bush which on reflection can go under the side window. Camouflage is what it needs, Groundforce never have these problems !!