AGR Model Store Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Hello, Recently we have just bought model railway collection, but at the end of the day the wife of the collections brings us this plaque and plate over to see if we would be interested as well. Now this nameplate, Is off well known loco. ( Not naming what loco it is yet ) But the plague stats this was given to fireman from BR when he retired. Now my question is Us & family would like to get this nameplate checked over ( make sure the story is true ) and value on it, Would anyone know where the best place to go ? Would auction houses come out to do such thing ? Any help would be a lot of help, Thank you. Anthony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2015 Any specialist auction house - just look on the internet for railwayana auctions and you should get a lead on those. Don't go to the likes of Sothebys or Bonhams - they simply don't have the expertise whatever they might try to make you believe. Also look for past auction results to see any comparable sales - just google for 'xxxxx class nameplate'. However what I do find odd is that it was allegedly given to an engineman when he retired - rather unusual that and it makes me wonder about the provenance and whether it might be a replica? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Model Store Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Thank you Stationmaster, I have looked around on the internet, just wanted to see if anyone from RMweb had any past dealing for such company's. Google search for the same class, I can find the photos but no prices. That's why we and family would like to get the plate checked out, To find out if its a replica or not. The story sounds nice but no actually proof other then plate to back it up. Anthony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted March 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2015 There's an awful lot of fakes doing the rounds....... I purchased an LNER "Penalty for Leaving the Gate Open etc." sign from an Antiques Shop in Holt for twenty quid about ten years ago; the shop owner was completely open that it was a repro though - a friend had made a master from the real thing and was casting signs. Be careful. polybear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reading General Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 There's an awful lot of fakes doing the rounds....... I purchased an LNER "Penalty for Leaving the Gate Open etc." sign from an Antiques Shop in Holt for twenty quid about ten years ago; the shop owner was completely open that it was a repro though - a friend had made a master from the real thing and was casting signs. Be careful. polybear there are indeed, I have a GSWR one in my garden Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Model Store Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 As said before we wont buy it / they don't want to sell until we get all green lights make its all 100% real / genuine item of the locomotive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2015 As said before we wont buy it / they don't want to sell until we get all green lights make its all 100% real / genuine item of the locomotive. Might be fairly easy to tell just how genuine it is from the name as the whereabouts of many plates are known (someone used to publish a list but not surprisingly I can't find it on the 'net. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted March 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2015 Can you tell us what class of loco it's from ? I've bought through these before, but not for a good while, and always found them pretty good. http://www.sheffieldrailwayana.co.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 If it's a steam loco nameplate, bear in mind that the going rate at the time of scrapping (mid 60s) was about 30 quid to buy direct from BR. Totally irrelevant to what it may be worth today but may put it into perspective if somebody's mates had a whip round to get it at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevex52 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Some years ago i had similar situation. My friend who is a model railway dealer had took in part ex a nameplate. He asked could i value it. I agreed to see the plate and give some advice. The plate looked genuine to me and i pointed him to a railwayana auction. I took the plate to be valued and had to leave it a while till research had been done. There are many checks to be made from Theft, size of plate, any known others, metal used, genuine feel and look to name but a few. The auction house informed me it was a repro and i duly collected it. A short while later a dealer contacted me to say he was interested, so i agreed a viewing date. The man was keen to buy but offered a low price which i informed my friend and he duly accepted. Now.. sometime later i heard that the said buyer had already sold the plate before he bought it to a man in the London area. Ofcourse too late for me to do anything about it. Some time later i viewed another plate from the same class and all the points that had been told to me as a reason for being a repro were present on the one sold as genuine. The plate in question i had was also said to be a retirement presentation and other items that came with the plate were genuine. I feel that the plate was genuine but however probably had not been carried for very long. If any plate is carried it makes a vast difference to the price. My advice is seek 2 or 3 valuations from railwayana auctions and do not form your opinion until all valuations are complete. There are for sure a lot of sharks out there...i know a few. Good luck with your name plate, i hope its genuine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted March 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2015 There's a specialist clock shop (or maybe was?) a short walk up the road from one of the stations on the KWVR; he naturally sells a lot of railway clocks. He mentioned that he sold an antique clock (but not a true railway clock) to another dealer for (if memory serves correctly) about the £500 mark. A few weeks later he saw the same dealer at a large antiques fair, with the same clock. Which now sported a worn/aged looking "LNER" logo on the clock face - and about fifteen hundred quid on the price....... polybear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I wonder how "well-known" we are talking here....something like a GWR Hall nameplate is going to start about £6,000 upwards - whereas something larger will be exponentially more. http://www.sheffieldrailwayana.co.uk/sale146/all-lots.html - choose something of a similar class/provenance and have a guess! Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevex52 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I wonder how "well-known" we are talking here....something like a GWR Hall nameplate is going to start about £6,000 upwards - whereas something larger will be exponentially more. http://www.sheffieldrailwayana.co.uk/sale146/all-lots.html - choose something of a similar class/provenance and have a guess! Paul A. If you click on the link and scroll down to lot 62.. A Class 90 worksplate sold for £340. Be aware there are many either uncarried or repro doing the rounds. I have one myself. They were being sold for £8 to £12. Some railwayana collectors have done much research in to certain plates to save us all from being caught out. I also purchased a Steam loco worksplate from an antique fair. It really did look the part but was again a repro. People will hammer edges, apply acids and bury them in the garden to make it look aged. Luckily i got my money back selling it as a repro on e.bay. I was contacted by a fellow collector who knew the exact dimensions the plate should be, thus confirming it as a repro. He knew of at least 4 variations. Rule of thumb if it sounds to cheap..its a repro. Even dealers will have done the research if they think there is money in it. This is where it is buyer beware. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 If you click on the link and scroll down to lot 62.. A Class 90 worksplate sold for £340. Be aware there are many either uncarried or repro doing the rounds. I have one myself. They were being sold for £8 to £12. Some railwayana collectors have done much research in to certain plates to save us all from being caught out. I also purchased a Steam loco worksplate from an antique fair. It really did look the part but was again a repro. People will hammer edges, apply acids and bury them in the garden to make it look aged. Luckily i got my money back selling it as a repro on e.bay. I was contacted by a fellow collector who knew the exact dimensions the plate should be, thus confirming it as a repro. He knew of at least 4 variations. Rule of thumb if it sounds to cheap..its a repro. Even dealers will have done the research if they think there is money in it. This is where it is buyer beware. Sorry, what's the significance of the class 90 works plate? Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevex52 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sorry, what's the significance of the class 90 works plate? Paul A. Just pointing out to take care. Sometimes we all read articles and and see how things are valued but take care not to get carried away. In all collectables there are copies and uncarried items which seriously affects values. As i said i have a plate like this, but it is a copy and not worth much at all. The original topic was about a person who had a plate but did not know who to approach to value it. Articles like you posted are a good start. I wish him well in his search and hope he has a genuine plate. I am not sure if Sheffield Auction still takes place as i understood it had been taken over..its not in my list of current auctions. Probably Great Central Auctions took it over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I'm a little puzzled by the mention of a plaque. Is this a presentation plaque stating that the item (what I assume to be a full-size nameplate) was presented to Fireman X. Does the plaque actually tie in with the name on the plate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 It sounds like a replica to me. Engines' plates stayed with the engine for their lifetime and the engine retiring/scrapping was a one off event that I would be surprised indeed that it occurred at the same time as the retiring fireman. Even more so the fireman and not the driver! Perhaps a clue might be the date of retirement and the withdrawl/scrappage date of the loco. If the loco was seen with plates after the presentation date then it is a replica. But don't despair it may be a "replica" plate made at the works (though possibly less likely). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2015 I would first check when the loco was withdrawn, as Kenton says, plates and locos weren't easily and simply parted. If the dates of retirement, loco withdrawal and shed allocations of said fireman and loco tally up, then it might be worth further investigation. I'll have a look on friday when I pass through LB!!!! Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Model Store Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Hello, Thank you for your kind comments, I believe we are in process off having the plate in the next couple weeks so that we / I can find out / family can find out what's the story. After speaking to few railway auction houses yesterday / today they've all said the same thing, story sounds good but doesn't add up why a fireman would get it / unless he wasn't a fireman and high up in BR ladder. ( even then it doesn't add up why he would of been presented with plate & not the standard BR watch or mounted whistle ) And Enterprisingwestern the plate is not in L.B, but feel free to pop pass the shop Thank you Anthony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mervyn Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Never heard of any footplate crew getting a nameplate, but I was told that when one of the top brass at my old shed retired they gave him a mounted Jubilee nameplate as a retirement gift ,most of the name plates off the withdrawn loco,s were kept in a pile in the stores before being returned to Crewe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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