Bachmann Class 450 - to weather or not?

[piranha230]

Its just like if you were in a supermarket and its own brand sugar was £1.07 and the name brand sugar was also £1.07 then suddenly the name brand sugar goes up to £4.28 a bag over a course of time but the other stays the same price or slightly higher would you buy it or choose the cheaper one ? SUGARS, SUGAR SALT IS SALT,SAME THING

I have seen this years ago when I worked selling commercial energy at prices where you could get gas and electric around 20-30% cheaper  than British gas, I had people saying ill stay as I am even if it doubles, look whats happened to them prices.

Things do go up in price but if a newly tooled model was £107.00 at 2011 prices then it jumps up to £400.00 at 2015/2016 serious questions need to be raised here.

Same with that ALDI CLAIMING YOU CAN SAVE 50% COMPARED TO OTHER SUPERMARKETS,  ONLY A FEW MONTHS AGO, ANYONE NOTICED THIS HAS NOW DROPPED TO SAVE 30% ON ITS MOST RECENT ADVERTS, YOU HAVE ASDA WE ARE CHEAPER ,MORRISONS WE MATCH THIS, TESCO WE DO THIS AND MATCH THIS,SAINSBURYS BUY 10 ITEMS WE MATCH THIS AND THAT.

WITH MANY DUPLICATED MODELS AVAILABLE, IF A NEW ENTRANT DID AN EQUALLY ACCURATE CLASS 450  AT SAY £200.00 AND Bachmann AT £400.00 WHICH WOULD YOU PICK?

[piranha230]

We have grown, we are the leading rtr suppiler we can now charge what we want people will stick with us, never question us and they will pay our price hikes  for a new livery, our bubble will never burst, we are invincible, people will always

buy from us no matter how much our prices rise.

roll on your newer competitors.

[YesTor]

This topic seems to have gone quiet.  What was the result, are we to get two pristine units or are Bachmann going ahead with the awful factory weathered version?

[159220]

This topic seems to have gone quiet.  What was the result, are we to get two pristine units or are Bachmann going ahead with the awful factory weathered version?

 

I did inform Bachmann I had set up a poll, and that 90% of respondents (out of 31) wanted 31-041 in pristine condition. I feel it was a shame the thread was hijacked about price, but hopefully Bachmann have still found this useful. Perhaps if votes go over 50 or 100 like the Class 91 poll, I shall remind them again. Bachmann did say in an email they were thankful of the time taken to poll and have past the information onto their R&D team. They had previously said if there was a change, this would be communicated through their stockist and through the press, not an email to me.

 

Anyone who has not voted, please do, as if we can demonstrate there is a strong preference for a pristine 450127 - we might just get it!?

[159220]

Was there any indication in the recent Bachmann Times of where the Class 450 is in the production stages? I know they advertise in development, in artwork etc.

I did see in a recent Magazine it being quoted as all design work complete - expected 2016?

Personally I am holding out for RMWeb poll having an impact on Bachmann and encouraging them we, the customer, want to pristine models to weather ourselves if needs.

I have saved up £800 to cover both models if our votes have been influential, thank you to everyone who voted.

(Perhaps the recent S stock being priced at £280 gives us up the 450 wont be £400, but I am more concerned about them going ahead with a weathered one and it not selling currently)

 

I shall remind Bachmann of the poll if it looks like the Bachmann Times suggests it is not in production yet, perhaps we get over 50 votes?

[Southernman46]

Quite simple NO - they just don't get dirty - the unseen part of the roof possibly but generally pretty clean all round...........something to do with having livery vinyls (do they) ?? 

[PaulRhB]

Re numbering them is much easier than weathering for many and to be honest I'd be surprised to see two with different numbers released as pristine unless one was a sound option. It would just make more sense to extend sales by releasing a second number in a subsequent batch if the first sells well. We will just have to wait and see

[Tase]

Not sure what all the fuss about weathering by Bachmann is all about....their preporoduction images of weathered models never look like the finished model!

[YesTor]

Anyone who has not voted, please do, as if we can demonstrate there is a strong preference for a pristine 450127 - we might just get it!?

 

I asked Dennis Lovett at DEMU if there were any plans to change to a pristine version and he suggested not, and that the weathered version was to go ahead as per the current catalogue...  

[Godfrey Glyn]

I spoke to Dennis Lovett as well at DEMU and suggested to him that weathering the roof so as to reflect the reality might be quite difficult - and expensive! I offered to send him some photos of the variations in roof colours and patterns and he was interested enough to give me his card - he must get fed up with people like me pestering! Anyway I have sent him a letter of comments together with 16 A4 colour photographs ( a bit like that song 'Alice's Restaurant' ) with an offer of more if required in the hope that they will limit any weathering to the underframe and bogies. I will await the post-man with interest!!

 

all the best

Godfrey

[Godfrey Glyn]

Two months later and I still haven't had any acknowledgement from Bachmann, not even an email message - having sent it by recorded delivery and to be signed for I would have thought it should have arrived by now. I have given up awaiting the postman with interest regarding this particular issue!

 

All the best 
Godfrey

[159220]

Two months later and I still haven't had any acknowledgement from Bachmann, not even an email message - having sent it by recorded delivery and to be signed for I would have thought it should have arrived by now. I have given up awaiting the postman with interest regarding this particular issue!

 

All the best 

Godfrey

 

Hi

 

What did you send them?

 

They are aware of this poll, and I only wish if turn out was over 200 they would most certainly note. But I know they follow, so we can only hope.

 

I understand it is reasonable of a company to be private about the development of models, but I hope so so so much they note.

[YesTor]

Not sure what all the fuss about weathering by Bachmann is all about....their preporoduction images of weathered models never look like the finished model!

 

That's correct, the actual models usually look far worse!

[Godfrey Glyn]

Hi 159220,

 

Altogether I sent them 16 photos taken at Alton or Eastleigh to show the variations in roof colours and patterns.  I hoped that they would show that:

SWT have painted some of the coach roofs more recently in a darker matt paint,

the air con units remain in their original style paint,

the complex patterns on weathered roofs which presumably results from the washing plant and sunlight,

the way the 'swoosh' runs on the roof of the driving coaches,

the weathering in the empty 'pantograph well',

I also sent two which showed the variation in how the 'swoosh' runs at the driving cabs in different units.

Some of those I sent are below, rather too many to load them all on!

I think the weathering patterns that Bachmann achieved on the test coach set is excellent but when I wrote I tried to suggest that to recreate the complex patterns on the roofs of the 450 might be too expensive and if so it would be better to produce both models in pristine condition.

If anyone wants more photos in order to repaint the Bachmann 350, please PM me

 

All the best

Godfrey

 

[Godfrey Glyn]

Now this really is a nitpicking issue but I hope it illustrates the very small differences in the way the the orange/blue boundary line is painted on the driving coach of the 450s. It has always surprised me that Bachmann didn't produce this before; it is, in my opinion a very attractive livery. I am sure Adrian would be proud of my attention to detail in the prototype, needless to say I didn't notice until it was pointed out on RMweb!

 

All the best

Godfrey

[PaulRhB]

Only issue there is it would require two sets of printing pads, that's one detail I won't be surprised if they cheat Maybe that's why they avoided it till now

Edited August 11, 2015 by PaulRhB

[159220]

I wonder is the slight difference in the swoosh is to do with the different batches built up to 2004 and between 2007/08? I see to the left 0124 which is of a later run than the original 0001-0110? Thus technically if they do continue to make 0127 she needs a different swoosh?

 

I would be open to the weathered version if it was not covered in brown spray at all, but had the fades roofs as shown in the photos above. The 450s are always in pristine condition and thus I still feel it is madness for Bachmann to produce a weathered version.

 

All I know is they read this threat, so might actually listen to the customers with the cash already in their bank allocated to buying two!

[159220]

I spoke with Bachmann over the weekend too, seems we are looking at around £400 for the model. Which I can accept, but not with dirt sprayed over it.

Hopefully a few more members shall vote this week, and we can email Bachmann to show there is demand for both to be in pristine condition.

 

The RRP of the Bachmann SWT 450 has been announced as £299.95, a relief it is not £400! This represents a 37% increase over a three year cycle which should of been 60%. Though I am not pleased to pay £254 (15% off rrp) for the 450, I am pleased Bachmann have tried to minimise the cost as much as possible.

 

In context, the S-Stock 4 car cost £280 in this financial year, and came without as much detail as the 450, and without working coach lights.

 

Just shame they are still planning to release the weathered version as surely this poll highlights greater demand for an additional pristine 450.

 

Question: if you are going to pay £254 for a 450, would you want it weathered or pristine?

Edited March 3, 2016 by 159220

[PaulRhB]

Take a cotton bud and some brasso and the weathering comes off easily if it's their usual waft with an airbrush. I 'de' weathered the body on an MPV easily that way.

[SRman]

Paul; going by Hattons' quoted prices, that seems an expensive way to get a second 450, as the weathered ones' price is around £20 or more dearer.

[PaulRhB]

Well the other option is to just renumber the unweathered one If it's a subtle job then great otherwise I'd just weather the pristine one.

[Godfrey Glyn]

I too was fearing that the full RRP for the SWTrains 450 was going to be nearer £400 so just a tad relieved it's not. However, I have already told my retailer that I would not want to commit to the 'weathered' version until I see it. Having sent Bachmann a set of photographs (my dirty dossier)  which demonstrated that their image of a weathered 450 did not look at all like the real thing I suspect that they could not do a decent job for £20, its far too complicated. I would be delighted to be proved wrong!

At the moment I plan to get two pristine ones and then look to weather one myself. Looking forward to them finally arriving in the shops.

All the best

Godfrey

[steve1023]

Question: if you are going to pay £254 for a 450, would you want it weathered or pristine?

Prestine every time. For me Bachmann are very good at producing good models, however they are seemingly unable to do decent weathering, but Bachmann must think there is a market for it or they wouldn't be doing it.

 

As a side note I had fully intended on buying one of these, but last week's announcement of the 2HAP/N gauge 319 means I will be saving my cash for them as they are more relevant to my interest's/needs.

 

Steve

Edited March 7, 2016 by steve1023

[Oakydoke]

Despite the relief that the price isn't going to be north of £300, these will still make a dent in my wallet as I would ideally like 4 or 5 of them.

I'll have to think about selling one of SWMBO's kidneys.

[jjb1970]

The Class 350 Desiro in London Midland is one of my favourite models, admittedly I'm biased as I commute between London and Milton Keynes using the real ones. I think the way they handled the DCC plug is a model in how it should be done and avoids the stress of worrying if the amount of force needed to remove some bodies (eg. the 4-CEP, latest Heljan 33) will end up shattering the body. I plan buying one of these Class 450s as it is a very attractive livery and assuming they don't drop a proper klanger it'll be a superb model. OK it looks very pricey next to the original 350 release and the heavily discounted 350's that have been available but at the sort of price retailers are likely to offer (assume a 15% discount) it is still within what I'm willing to pay for a nice model of a train I want. Mine will be pristine, I'm not a fan of factory weathering in general but particularly on this release I question whether Bachmann will make the effort to get it right as it would have to be quite a subtle job and not just a quick spray of grime.