Elsbridge Tramway Company: Elsbridge Town - NeilHB's layout

[Dava]

Someone does do a kit for the Corpse Van, it looks better than its macabre title suggests,  a trim SWB louvred carriage-profile van

 

http://www.ssplprints.com/image/123941/midland-railway-van-number-2-one-of-four-corpse-vans-built-in-1888

 

Could have other uses?

 

Dava

[NeilHB]

Someone does do a kit for the Corpse Van, it looks better than its macabre title suggests, a trim SWB louvred carriage-profile van

 

http://www.ssplprints.com/image/123941/midland-railway-van-number-2-one-of-four-corpse-vans-built-in-1888

 

Could have other uses?

 

Dava

It looks rather cute! Yes perhaps one was pensioned off and is now in use as a general parcels/luggage van?

[NeilHB]

Bit more work done on the luggage van framing. I've made the windows slightly smaller, which has enabled me to add a strip of framing at the top above the windows. I've then added the lower row of framing on the bottom half of the sides and ends:

 

 

Top framing still to add on the other side, plus I need to sort out the steps on this side. End framing wise I'm thinking either 1 or 2 vertical framing pieces, or several sections to create lots of narrow panels - any suggestions folks? So either [  I    I  ] or [ I I I I I ]...

 

 

[Edwardian]

Bit more work done on the luggage van framing. I've made the windows slightly smaller, which has enabled me to add a strip of framing at the top above the windows. I've then added the lower row of framing on the bottom half of the sides and ends:

 

IMG_3822.JPG

 

Top framing still to add on the other side, plus I need to sort out the steps on this side. End framing wise I'm thinking either 1 or 2 vertical framing pieces, or several sections to create lots of narrow panels - any suggestions folks? So either [  I    I  ] or [ I I I I I ]...

 

The end reminds me of some LBSC craven coaches, e.g Bluebell No.35, which has no vertical beading!

[NeilHB]

Thanks James, that's another option to think about as well!

[brack]

Someone does do a kit for the Corpse Van, it looks better than its macabre title suggests,  a trim SWB louvred carriage-profile van

 

http://www.ssplprints.com/image/123941/midland-railway-van-number-2-one-of-four-corpse-vans-built-in-1888

 

Could have other uses?

 

Dava

It's on Raymond walley's website , there's a few photos of building the kit. Apparently the MR meat van is almost identical to the corpse wagon. Make of that what you will!

[hartleymartin]

Perchance, are you going to call the luggage van "Elsie" ?

 

I'm starting to think that I should just abandon prototype modelling and go completely freelance.

[NeilHB]

Perchance, are you going to call the luggage van "Elsie" ?

 

I'm starting to think that I should just abandon prototype modelling and go completely freelance.

Martin - no as Elsie has already been featured and is the correct prototype - i.e W&U luggage van - have a look back over the last few pages and Elsie features here and there. Really must put up another photo or two as she is now nearly finished.

 

This one is from the Wellsworth & Suddery Railway and is based vaguely on the luggage vans used on the Isle of Wight (pre-1923) Railway.

 

I've given up prototype modelling - unless you count the North Western Railway as one! It's much more fun and no one can say 'the xxx railway didn't do that'.

[Guest Isambarduk]

Elsie is on the right:
 

 
As an aside, I built mine entirely from scratch (even the wheels, axle boxes, buffers and draw gear.  See: www.davidlosmith.co.uk/WUT-No9.htm) whilst I was a research student living abroad over thirty five years ago now; I did have access to a lathe but the construction took place on my tiny desk.  Ah, happy days!   David

 

[NeilHB]

Thanks David - lovely model as always.

 

Really must get on and finish Elsie off - keep getting distracted with other projects unfortunately!

[NeilHB]

Now that I've done a bit more work on Elsie, here's a comparison of her and the WSR Luggage Van...bit of a difference in size!

 

 

With both Elsie and the WSR luggage van whats left now is the fine detailing, plus Elsie will need a repaint I think, as I'm not keen on the shade of brown I've used. 

 

I think the shade of brown needs to be a bit lighter, more of a pale brown perhaps? 

 

Next up was today's project...

 

 

Wellsworth & Suddery Railway 1st/3rd composite coach - made from Peco coach parts as per the Brake 3rd, which this matches in length now. Different roof heights to highlight that the 1st/3rd composite is of an older design. 

 

 

I've also put the first coat of paint on the Brake 3rd - WSR Green and Cream livery. Needs a few more coats, but I quite like it! I think what is needed now is another coach to complete the rake...

[ExplosiveCookie]

Can I just say, I'm bleedin impressed with all this - immaculate work so far!

 

May I be a tad pedantic though and say that the Wellsworth & Suddery wouldn't of got running permissions to Elsbridge until 1912 - even then the new line connecting the Wellsworth & Suddery Railway and the Tidmouth, Knapford & Elsbridge Railway wouldn't be completed until they were both amalgamated into the North Western Railway along with the defunt Sodor & Mainland Railway.

 

Other than that little detail - which I don't really have a problem with at all, just pointing it out - I honestly can't wait to see the final outcome of this!

[Edwardian]

Now that I've done a bit more work on Elsie, here's a comparison of her and the WSR Luggage Van...bit of a difference in size!

 

IMG_3824.JPG

 

With both Elsie and the WSR luggage van whats left now is the fine detailing, plus Elsie will need a repaint I think, as I'm not keen on the shade of brown I've used. 

 

I think the shade of brown needs to be a bit lighter, more of a pale brown perhaps? 

 

Next up was today's project...

 

IMG_3829.JPG

 

Wellsworth & Suddery Railway 1st/3rd composite coach - made from Peco coach parts as per the Brake 3rd, which this matches in length now. Different roof heights to highlight that the 1st/3rd composite is of an older design. 

 

IMG_3832.JPG

 

I've also put the first coat of paint on the Brake 3rd - WSR Green and Cream livery. Needs a few more coats, but I quite like it! I think what is needed now is another coach to complete the rake...

 

An excellent collection of vehicles, very inventively but believably conceived. 

 

I note the similarity between WSR coach livery and that of the West Norfolk Railway.  Some old stock and NPCs would be plain green, but the WNR's 'mainline' coaches were certainly in green and cream, though the cream was a paler, less yellow, off-white shade than the WSR's seems to be.  It's a good combination and I think will work well with red locomotives (WNR's were 2-tone green).

 

The Bishop's Lynn to Flitching tramway (GER) inherited that W&U van circa 1903, so I'll be attempting a 4mm version in GE livery.

 

Really enjoying this excellent topic.

[NeilHB]

Can I just say, I'm bleedin impressed with all this - immaculate work so far!

 

May I be a tad pedantic though and say that the Wellsworth & Suddery wouldn't of got running permissions to Elsbridge until 1912 - even then the new line connecting the Wellsworth & Suddery Railway and the Tidmouth, Knapford & Elsbridge Railway wouldn't be completed until they were both amalgamated into the North Western Railway along with the defunt Sodor & Mainland Railway.

 

Other than that little detail - which I don't really have a problem with at all, just pointing it out - I honestly can't wait to see the final outcome of this!

Thanks ExplosiveCookie, much appreciated. Still a way to go yet and still got to build the four coffeepots...!

 

 

Ah, now if you've read 'The Island of Sodor; It's People, History and Places' by the Rev. Awdry he does state that the WSR linked up to the TKELR in 1912 (via the tunnel between Crosby and Knapford), and the two companies operated under a joint agreement. Sadly WWI intervened before the two companies could officially merge to become the TWSR...

"In 1912 came amalgamation with the Wellsworth & Suddery Railway, who also had their eyes on Tidmouth, and tunnelled through the ridge west of Crosby to join the TK&E at Knapford. Knapford was now a junction, but both station and junction were then on the south side of the river.

Following the building of the NWR in 1915-16, the Elsbridge traffic was still worked by Topham Hatt's vertical boiler engines, but it was relegated to a bay platform on the east side of the station. Elsbridge trains no longer worked to and from Tidmouth."(TIOS, Page 30). 

 

So entirely plausible that W&SR locos and stock could be seen at Elsbridge pre-NWR days. Don't forgot that I'm aiming to operate multiple time periods on EW:

1 - 1905-1910 - TKER days

2 - 1912-1915 - Post amalgamation with the WSR - some WSR stock seen

3 - 1916-1920 - Early NWR days - influx of newer stock including Midland and Furness stock 'on loan' to the NWR

4 - 1923-1925 - Pre extension to Ffarquhar - greater influx of NWR stock, including No.1, and preparations for extension to Ffarquhar and the quarry tramroad to Anopha. 

 

Using the different time periods should enable me to utilise a greater variety of stock. 

 

An excellent collection of vehicles, very inventively but believably conceived. 

 

I note the similarity between WSR coach livery and that of the West Norfolk Railway.  Some old stock and NPCs would be plain green, but the WNR's 'mainline' coaches were certainly in green and cream, though the cream was a paler, less yellow, off-white shade than the WSR's seems to be.  It's a good combination and I think will work well with red locomotives (WNR's were 2-tone green).

 

The Bishop's Lynn to Flitching tramway (GER) inherited that W&U van circa 1903, so I'll be attempting a 4mm version in GE livery.

 

Really enjoying this excellent topic.

 

 

Thanks James, much appreciated. 

 

I will admit that I was suitably inspired by the WNR coaching stock livery - it is rather fetching! There are a few more items of NPCS to add, and I think that some of these will probably appear in plain green livery. However the luggage van, has, for the moment, gained a rough coat of WSR coaching stock livery...

 

 

The Bishop's Lynn to Flitching tramway - I believe that was where Toby, Henrietta and Elsie lived before their arrival on Sodor in 1951...

 

I have drawings in 4mm for the W&U rolling stock and tram locos if you want a copy? 

[Edwardian]

Thanks ExplosiveCookie, much appreciated. Still a way to go yet and still got to build the four coffeepots...!

 

 

Ah, now if you've read 'The Island of Sodor; It's People, History and Places' by the Rev. Awdry he does state that the WSR linked up to the TKELR in 1912 (via the tunnel between Crosby and Knapford), and the two companies operated under a joint agreement. Sadly WWI intervened before the two companies could officially merge to become the TWSR...

"In 1912 came amalgamation with the Wellsworth & Suddery Railway, who also had their eyes on Tidmouth, and tunnelled through the ridge west of Crosby to join the TK&E at Knapford. Knapford was now a junction, but both station and junction were then on the south side of the river.

Following the building of the NWR in 1915-16, the Elsbridge traffic was still worked by Topham Hatt's vertical boiler engines, but it was relegated to a bay platform on the east side of the station. Elsbridge trains no longer worked to and from Tidmouth."(TIOS, Page 30). 

 

So entirely plausible that W&SR locos and stock could be seen at Elsbridge pre-NWR days. Don't forgot that I'm aiming to operate multiple time periods on EW:

1 - 1905-1910 - TKER days

2 - 1912-1915 - Post amalgamation with the WSR - some WSR stock seen

3 - 1916-1920 - Early NWR days - influx of newer stock including Midland and Furness stock 'on loan' to the NWR

4 - 1923-1925 - Pre extension to Ffarquhar - greater influx of NWR stock, including No.1, and preparations for extension to Ffarquhar and the quarry tramroad to Anopha. 

 

Using the different time periods should enable me to utilise a greater variety of stock. 

 

 

 

I have long wanted a copy of that book, and glad that it is the basis of your research.  Very much a fan of Sudrian railways, having learnt to read and love railways simultaneously thanks to the Railway Series.  I love little Victorian and Edwardian lines.  Your project, thus, ticks a lot of my boxes and it's beautifully done, with, if I may say so, just the right mix of verisimilitude and whimsy.

 

 

 

Thanks James, much appreciated. 

 

I will admit that I was suitably inspired by the WNR coaching stock livery - it is rather fetching! There are a few more items of NPCS to add, and I think that some of these will probably appear in plain green livery. However the luggage van, has, for the moment, gained a rough coat of WSR coaching stock livery...

 

 

I had assumed co-incidence, but I am thrilled that you took note of my efforts and approved of the livery.  I rather like the idea that our two lines might have something in common. 

 

 

 

The Bishop's Lynn to Flitching tramway - I believe that was where Toby, Henrietta and Elsie lived before their arrival on Sodor in 1951...

 

I have drawings in 4mm for the W&U rolling stock and tram locos if you want a copy? 

 

I think that must be correct.  Elsewhere, and with reference to Rev. Awdry's building Toby article (see post 15, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/113746-y6-tram-engine/), Toby was a G15, rather than a C53, so would either have had to be one of the last W&U pair, or a member of the class believed to have been withdrawn earlier.

 

Thanks for your kind offer.  The Bishop's Lynn tramway hopes to run a G15, a C53, the W&U van withdrawn from that line in 1903, a 4-wheel and a bogie coach to the same diagrams as the W&U coaches and a GE 6-wheel coach tramcar conversion like those produced for the Kelvedon & Tollesbury LR, and, finally, a van of the type that the W&U used from 1903.

 

I would happily have some plans, particularly for a C53 and the 'new' W&U van, as I have no drawings for either as yet.

[NeilHB]

I have long wanted a copy of that book, and glad that it is the basis of your research.  Very much a fan of Sudrian railways, having learnt to read and love railways simultaneously thanks to the Railway Series.  I love little Victorian and Edwardian lines.  Your project, thus, ticks a lot of my boxes and it's beautifully done, with, if I may say so, just the right mix of verisimilitude and whimsy.

 

I had assumed co-incidence, but I am thrilled that you took note of my efforts and approved of the livery.  I rather like the idea that our two lines might have something in common. 

 

I think that must be correct.  Elsewhere, and with reference to Rev. Awdry's building Toby article (see post 15, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/113746-y6-tram-engine/), Toby was a G15, rather than a C53, so would either have had to be one of the last W&U pair, or a member of the class believed to have been withdrawn earlier.

 

Thanks for your kind offer.  The Bishop's Lynn tramway hopes to run a G15, a C53, the W&U van withdrawn from that line in 1903, a 4-wheel and a bogie coach to the same diagrams as the W&U coaches and a GE 6-wheel coach tramcar conversion like those produced for the Kelvedon & Tollesbury LR, and, finally, a van of the type that the W&U used from 1903.

 

I would happily have some plans, particularly for a C53 and the 'new' W&U van, as I have no drawings for either as yet.

 

It was a lucky find a few years ago - I've never managed to find it again at a reasonable price. 

 

Thanks - really glad you are enjoying it  

 

Yes I too have a fascination with Victorian and Edwardian lines - the quirkier the better in fact. Though outside those eras, current reading material is the Spurn Head Railway (http://www.skeals.co.uk/Articles/Spurn%20Railway.html) - a fascinating little self contained railway. 

 

It's a very smart livery! I wondered if I should attempt some sort of lining out on the coaching stock, perhaps a simple black or gold line round the outside of the cream panels? Lettering is likely to be yellow or gold, spelt out in full i.e. "THIRD" or "FIRST".

 

Yes, true if Toby was a G15 I believe there were some examples withdrawn before the grouping (131 in 1907, 130 in 1909, 127 and 128 in 1913) - so he could potentially be one of these four...

 

I have all the drawings, bar the Kelvedon & Tollesbury LR coaches. If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll scan them tomorrow when I'm at work, otherwise it might have to be next week. 

[ExplosiveCookie]

Thanks ExplosiveCookie, much appreciated. Still a way to go yet and still got to build the four coffeepots...!

 

 

Ah, now if you've read 'The Island of Sodor; It's People, History and Places' by the Rev. Awdry he does state that the WSR linked up to the TKELR in 1912 (via the tunnel between Crosby and Knapford), and the two companies operated under a joint agreement. Sadly WWI intervened before the two companies could officially merge to become the TWSR...

"In 1912 came amalgamation with the Wellsworth & Suddery Railway, who also had their eyes on Tidmouth, and tunnelled through the ridge west of Crosby to join the TK&E at Knapford. Knapford was now a junction, but both station and junction were then on the south side of the river.

Following the building of the NWR in 1915-16, the Elsbridge traffic was still worked by Topham Hatt's vertical boiler engines, but it was relegated to a bay platform on the east side of the station. Elsbridge trains no longer worked to and from Tidmouth."(TIOS, Page 30). 

 

So entirely plausible that W&SR locos and stock could be seen at Elsbridge pre-NWR days. Don't forgot that I'm aiming to operate multiple time periods on EW:

1 - 1905-1910 - TKER days

2 - 1912-1915 - Post amalgamation with the WSR - some WSR stock seen

3 - 1916-1920 - Early NWR days - influx of newer stock including Midland and Furness stock 'on loan' to the NWR

4 - 1923-1925 - Pre extension to Ffarquhar - greater influx of NWR stock, including No.1, and preparations for extension to Ffarquhar and the quarry tramroad to Anopha. 

 

Ah! I was reading it wrong - I only thought that the ridge was cut, didn't realise the track was laid too! I didn't notice the "Knapford was now a junction" until properly reading, my bad completely! Was also due to the page name saying "1906" - didn't realise you were operating different time periods.

 

On the note of No.1 - he 100% wouldn't be seen in the Elsbridge area until the extension was underway/completed in 1925. From reading the book, you can gather that two of the four coffee pots survived until 1951 - latest being 1956 operating the tramway, No.1 being used on occasion (One of these being the 1951 police incident).

 

It's great to see more people interested in pre-NWR days, always found the 3 companies quite interested - especially how the S&M had lost all their locos by 1901 yet somehow survived till the amalgamation in 1914.

[NeilHB]

Ah! I was reading it wrong - I only thought that the ridge was cut, didn't realise the track was laid too! I didn't notice the "Knapford was now a junction" until properly reading, my bad completely! Was also due to the page name saying "1906" - didn't realise you were operating different time periods.

 

On the note of No.1 - he 100% wouldn't be seen in the Elsbridge area until the extension was underway/completed in 1925. From reading the book, you can gather that two of the four coffee pots survived until 1951 - latest being 1956 operating the tramway, No.1 being used on occasion (One of these being the 1951 police incident).

 

It's great to see more people interested in pre-NWR days, always found the 3 companies quite interested - especially how the S&M had lost all their locos by 1901 yet somehow survived till the amalgamation in 1914.

 

 

Thats ok - think it was about 4-5 pages back where I originally wrote about operating in different time periods. 

 

Yes that is true, which is why he probably won't be seen until nearly the end of the 1923-1925 period, and even then only very occasionally. Yes, though I have a theory that the last two coffeepots survived even longer, and were hired/sold to the FQC for use as a dedicated shunter with the other retained for spares, and lasted in use until the Drewry arrived in 1971. 

 

Thanks - I've always had a soft spot for the pre-NWR railways - ever since reading 'Very Old Engines' - how could I not be interested with an engine called Neil?! I'm sure I've read somewhere about the S&M that the Furness took over operations until the NWR was formed; just can't remember where it was off the top of my head! 

 

There is a plan that's been floating round my head for the last couple of years about producing a model of each of the pre-NWR Sudrian Railways...

Edited August 11, 2016 by NeilHB

[NeilHB]

Little bit more progress today:

 

 

Henrietta has gained a roof, just a temporary roof for the moment, but hopefully it will give me an incentive to get on and finish her off!

 

 

The main project today has been building a new chassis for the North Western Railway Milk Van. This was one of my first ever scratchbuild projects when I moved up to 0 gauge almost 10 years ago! It originally ran on a much abused Triang mineral wagon chassis, but the time has come for a new chassis that looked more appropriate. This is as far as I've got, as I've run out of buffers and I need to buy some suitable brake gear for this and the WSR Composite 1st/3rd. 

 

 

Rule Number 1 applies here...Toby is my favourite Railway Series character, so naturally I had to have a model of him, plus appropriate train. So here it is. Toby, NW Milk Van, Elsie (now complete with couplings and handrails, just needs a repaint), plus Henrietta. There is a further addition to come, but I need to collect it from Telford first...

[Mike Bellamy]

 

I'll scan them tomorrow when I'm at work

 

 

So that's what you get up to when I'm not there . . . . . . . . . . !!

 

I know you are the apprentice but you're not supposed to pick up all my bad habits - although I must admit the scanner and printer do come in handy from time to time.

 

Holiday over and I'll be back in the office tomorrow - looking at your other postings you have been busy whilst I've been away.

 

Mike

 

.

[NeilHB]

So that's what you get up to when I'm not there . . . . . . . . . . !!

 

I know you are the apprentice but you're not supposed to pick up all my bad habits - although I must admit the scanner and printer do come in handy from time to time.

 

Holiday over and I'll be back in the office tomorrow - looking at your other postings you have been busy whilst I've been away.

 

Mike

 

.

 

 

I think it's a bit late for that Mike...I've worked with you long enough now that you've passed on too many bad habits - sorry! 

 

See you in the morning!

[NeilHB]

So once again not much progress to report, other than I spent my money and Telford and bought a fair few bits and pieces, and a couple of nice kits courtesy of Furness Railway Wagon Company for some lovely Furness Railway stock (thanks Marc for relieving me of my money!) and various oddments. 

 

Sometime ago, I snagged a bargain on eBay, a re-gauged Bachmann 0n30 tram, running on some very nice Slaters wagon wheels. The tram body went into the might be useful one day pile, and the chassis has sat on my modelling desk ever since with vague ideas floating around centred on either a small diesel shunter, or an even smaller railcar. 

 

Well the railcar idea won out at the weekend, so I set to with the scalpel (only two scalpel related injuries this time...)

 

The re-gauged tram chassis, and the start of the footplate. The projections on the footplate are there to hold it on the chassis, by simply being a very tight fit around the end sections of the chassis where the screw holes are located. If I can find some suitable bolts I'll use them, but for the moment this arrangement works fine.  

 

Sides from 15thou plasticard, with 40x15thou plastic strip detailing. Detailing strip around the doors is 30x10thou to make it look like the doors are recessed slightly into the bodysides. Drivers cab at each end, with double door entry in a small combined drivers cab/guards area at one end, supposedly for a small amount of parcels traffic etc. 

 

Chassis detailing, not sure who made the axle box castings, they were another eBay find and have been in the bits box waiting for a suitable project. There's another set still in the box, and an idea floating around in my brain for either a small trailer unit, or a natty little goods wagon to go with the railcar like those used on the Selsey tram with the Ford and Shefflex railcars...

Radiator at one end, made from one of the long thin boxes that hold Slaters axles, never throw anything away! Petrol tank at the other is an ex-Slaters MR gas tank from one of their coaches. I still need to add some pipework etc., but not sure if it will actually be visible. 

 

Body assembled and braced internally.  

 

Roof cut and added for show. Seating still to add along with partitions etc. 

 

Last one for good measure...I think the railcar could be described as compact and bijou...it makes the Terrier look big! 

 

Not sure whether to add buffers or not at the moment, I thought about something similar to the AC Railcars, but suggestions would be welcome please. 

Edited September 28, 2016 by NeilHB

[Hesperus]

That looks great,  it reminds me of the smaller Drewery car on the WC&P.

 

Perhaps you could use 00  buffers between this and it's own wagon?

[NeilHB]

That looks great, it reminds me of the smaller Drewery car on the WC&P.

 

Perhaps you could use 00 buffers between this and it's own wagon?

Thanks Hesperus. Yes, will admit there is a bit of inspiration from the WC&P in there.

 

I hadn't thought of using 00 buffers, so thanks! Will have to investigate and see what looks suitable.

[Andrew Young]

Good to see you back modelling Neil. The Railcar looks very suitable, definitely compact and bijou!

 

For inspiration, it's worth looking out the Baguley-Drewry railcars, will see what I can find in my book cases.

 

Also intrigued, because I have two of those chassis' and hadn't thought about converting them to standard gauge...

 

Cheers,

Andrew