Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[Mikkel]

Thanks Don, yes I agree. I am pragmatic and going for the overall impression here. But that too raises questions. Which details matter for the overall appearance, and which ones don't?

 

Speaking of which, below I have scribed the glazing with the Silhouette cutter on Evergreen 10 thou clear styrene. There is no paint infill here, the white appearance is the direct effect of the cut.

 

 

 

Trial fit with the rest of the framing:
 

 

 

In order to accentuate the glazing bars more, I painted them in white acrylic, then wiped it off when almost dry.

 

 

This made a slight difference, but not that much.

 

 

 

Below are three shots for comparison. Scribed glazing bars unpainted (top left); scribed bars painted (top right); the original approach with full styrene bars (bottom left); and the prototype.

 

The ideal is somewhere in between, but both approaches could work. I am leaning towards the original solution, although it requires more cutting and layers. The glazing bars of the prototype are fairly pronounced - even from a distance - and I feel that the scribed solution doesn’t quite reproduce that effect in this case.

 

[Schooner]

Is the cutter precise enough to scribe two lines close enough together that they appear as one from normal viewing distances?

 

Interesting and inspiring stuff!

[kitpw]

As you say, your original approach seems to be closer to the character of the original - but reading back, I may have misunderstood.  This sketch is what I thought you were doing...

two cuts and one add operation...

...or possibly two "adds" if you did both sides of the sash.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by kitpw

[magmouse]

I agree, Mikkel, that the scribed glazing bars are too thin/delicate. If double lines can work, as per Schooner’s suggestion, then good, but otherwise the original method gives the better overall effect, to my eye.

 

Nick.

[ChrisN]

Mikkel,

It is the 'what can you see at normal viewing distance' criteria.  The scribed lines in that window would disappear I think.  The general shape, of the buildings, windows, window frames and roof will give the general appearance and overall impression of the place.  I realised that I have made a mistake on mine that although not fatal to the appearance will detract from it, but generally will still look like the type of station I want it to represent.

[Donw]

In 7mm I made windows by cutting thin strips of white labels and sticking them onto transparent sheet. start with the horizontal glazing add the vertical the add the strips for the sides and tops over the glazing bars worked quite well from normal distance  maybe not up to todays close ups. Labels were cheap and with a sharp blade ai would cut a number of strips and use the best ones the idea came from Graham Overton. 

I wonder if your scoring method would work with using a lining pen to add the white in the grooves. and gently scrape away any blobs that have strayed over the edges.

 

Don

[stevel]

Have you thought of using self adhesive vinyl, cut on the Silhouette cutter. Should be a lot easier for it to cut out and very repeatable.

[Mikkel]

Many thanks all. As always, this forum is a fountain of ideas. I'll have a go at both the double-scribe idea and the self-adhesive labels/vinyl (had forgotten about the latter method). Both methods mean I would avoid the risks of glue smudges on the glazing - a pet hate of mine.

 

Kit: Yes your drawing illustrates the original solution, although I'd rather avoid an inner layer of sashes - again to minimize glue issues. I use Testor's clear parts cement but no glue is 100% transparent in practice (that I've found).

 

 

[kitpw]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

to minimize glue issues

I imagined that you'd dry glaze the sashes - i.e. sash frame/glazing bars on the outside, then glazing, then nothing. The only time I've tried sandwich making, with glazing as the filling, I used actual glass which can be scraped/wiped clean because, like you, I have glue issues, especially the glues that play grandmother's footsteps and create a mist on the glazing sometime later.  

The signal box windows below are single layers of card:  the glazing is cut tight to fit the structural opening and sprung in from the back after securing the frame/glazing bars. 

 

I notice that the windows on Farthing's station are inset a full brick (9") (this is twice what you'd find on an ordinary Victorian house) and the sashes (upper windows) set in from the main framing. Both contribute to the texture of the facade. For timber windows, a lot of a glazing bar is on the outside of the glass - see this set of typical C18th and C19th timber glazing bars - the glass is set with a deep putty line and makes the shadowing which is characteristic of timber windows in contrast with, for instance, steel windows, where the glass is very close to the outside.  On a model (as on the real building) the part of the frame inside the glass is not much seen, if at all, when the light level on the inside is relatively low. The picture you posted above (on this page) shows that, I think - no sign of the glazing bars inside the glass. However, bright lighting inside the building could change that.

All this is ok but, bearing in mind the mass production required for Farthing, well...

 

(Post script - actualy post computer crash although RMweb software seems to have retained most of this!) Going back to the pictures and drawings you posted as the "Fifth Bite", any view other than the head on elevation view tends to show the openings rather than what's in them.  As the views become more oblique, the doors and windows disappear, producing a line of sort of sentry boxes.  It's worth thinking about how much focus there will be on individual elements - the roof (and particularly the gutter line), the string course above the windows, the stone lintols and deep reveals are the strongest elements when viewed from any oblique angle - Google streetview says so!)

Kit PW

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by kitpw

[Mikkel]

Thank you for these thoughts, Kit.  Yes, the prototype photos suggest little interior framing, so I won't be doing that.

 

The inset of the windows is another thing I am working on, and trying out different methods to see what can actually be seen in practice. More on that later.

 

 

[Mikkel]

On 25/02/2023 at 10:49, Schooner said:

Is the cutter precise enough to scribe two lines close enough together that they appear as one from normal viewing distances?

 

Thanks again Schooner. I have now tried this, on the right below. It certainly works and does help makes the glazing bars more prononced. But still not quite enough for my needs in this case, I feel.

 

 

 

 

On 26/02/2023 at 00:17, Donw said:

In 7mm I made windows by cutting thin strips of white labels and sticking them onto transparent sheet.

 

On 26/02/2023 at 04:25, stevel said:

Have you thought of using self adhesive vinyl, cut on the Silhouette cutter. Should be a lot easier for it to cut out and very repeatable.

Thanks gents. I've also now tried this out, using sticky-backed vinyl. Having the glazing “ready-fitted” is a big advantage of this approach.

 

 

But my Silhouette cutter just won’t cut those sub-0.5 mm glazing bars neatly enough in one plane, regardless of the material and despite all the usual Silhouette tricks. Also, I got scaly fingers 🙂

 

 
 

So to quote a recurring question in A Clockwork Orange: “What’s it going to be then, eh?” 

 

 

I've decided to stick with the original plan, and do the horizontal and vertical glazing bars as separate layers, which is easier for the Silhouette to deal with.  I’m using a layered approach to the construction anyway. Here are three layers for the refreshment rooms.

 

  

And here is a dry run.

 

 

Now working on the lower panels and upper timberwork.

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Mikkel

[kitpw]

That looks like a pretty good outcome for a dry run.  Bravo!

[MrWolf]

That looks really good, I particularly like the beading around the door panels.

[Mikkel]

Thanks all, yes the beading and framing is what makes it come alive, I think. I actually wish there was more of this stuff on my chosen prototype. But the decorative limestone will help (and probably drive me mad!). 

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Awesome! Taking notes if you don't mind.

[Dana Ashdown]

Well that's impressive!

[MikeOxon]

11 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Thanks all, yes the beading and framing is what makes it come alive, I think. I actually wish there was more of this stuff on my chosen prototype. But the decorative limestone will help (and probably drive me mad!). 

You are making good use of your Silhouette cutter, Mikkel.  Don't forget that you could also make use of Slaters Plasticard Microstrip, which comes in sizes down to 0.01"x 0.02" (0.25 x 0.5 mm), which can be useful for very fine beading.  If you scribe a groove with the cutter, then it can be used to help keep the strip aligned correctly.  Alternatively, you can also use fine wire, again set into grooves made with the cutter.  Once painted over, the mix of materials becomes irrelevant.

Edited March 11, 2023 by MikeOxon
typo

[ChrisN]

4 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

You are making good use of your Silhouette cutter, Mikkel.  Don't forget that you could also make use of Slaters Plasticard Microstrip, which some in sizes down to 0.01"x 0.02" (0.25 x 0.5 mm), which can be useful for very fine beading.  If you scribe a groove with the cutter, then it can be used to help keep the strip aligned correctly.  Alternatively, you can also use fine wire, again set into grooves made with the cutter.  Once painted over, the mix of materials becomes irrelevant.

 

Yes, what Mike has said is true.  On my MSLR coaches, which are hiding away, the panelling was scribed and 10 thou microstrip rods were glued into them.  (That is not why they were put away, and yes that may be the way to madness, but it does look good.)

[MrWolf]

Actually I can see how that would work rather well, provided you can keep a tight control on the amount of solvent washing about.

Idea pinched for future reference, thanks.

[ChrisN]

I have found that some of my pictures were actually returned, so see this post for an image of what I did.

[Dave John]

I find the liquid solvents too fast for laminating styrene. I still use Revell Contacta which is I think a gel with limonine as the solvent. Allows those seconds to get the alignment right. Then the whole assembly gets weighted flat with plenty of drying time. 

[Mikkel]

Thanks all. I'm using a combination of wire and microstrip, but had not considered that the cutter could be used to mark out/scribe grooves as guidance. That's worth remembering, thanks for the tip.

 

Like Dave I'm using Limonine, the extra adjustment time is a great help. It bonds particularly well with Evergreen styrene, I find, especially if applied twice before sticking things down (the styrene tends to suck up the first layer).

 

Alternatively, use icing sugar! A cake model of the down side building at Newbury, to mark the station's recent upgrade.

 

Source: Railway Heritage Trust on Twitter.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Mikkel

[kitpw]

"Newbury Station? Model it for Farthing? ...piece of cake" said Mikkel...

[magmouse]

I remember reading, many years ago, a Cyril Freezer editorial in which he discussed model building competitions, where some people argued that locos should be entered unpainted, otherwise the judges would be unable to tell how much filler had been used. CJF's view was if the modeller was clever enough to make the whole model from filler, then good for them. I'm not sure what he would have made of a model made from cake, though.

 

Nick.

[Mikkel]

Progress on the refreshment rooms at Farthing, based on those at Newbury.

 

The decorative woodwork at the top and sides was built up from bits of styrene.

 

 

Wire was used for some of the panelling.

 

 

 

Incidentally I’ve started using these foam sanding pads from Green Stuff World (no connection). They are bendy and can be cut to any shape and size which is handy for tricky work. They clean up well under the tap. 

 

 

 

The doors were made from 3x5 thou layers of laminated styrene. As an experiment, I used short handrail knobs for door knobs. By pulling them partly through they don’t protrude too much.

 

 

 

During my 1900s period many GWR stations had chocolate windows and doors. The standard reference works have ignored/overlooked this but see earlier discussion. Thanks to @David Bigcheeseplant for bringing this to light. This photo shows the chocolate windows and doors at Newbury ca. 1910:

 

 

 

An example of the chocolate scheme alongside two-tone timberwork can be seen in this crop of a photo from Stratford on Avon: 

 

 

 

Here it is applied to my refreshment rooms. White bits are for the brick plinth. Glazing to follow.

 

 

 

A little test, featuring the always peckish staff writers of The Railway Magazine. The decorative wotsits at the sides are temporarily stuck on. The rather low door has since been addressed.

 

 

A frame was made from “foamed PVC” (no longer contains PVC) so as to enhance structural integrity when inserted into the walls of the station building.

 

 

I thought this design was unique to Newbury, but then found this photo from Stratford on Avon. That makes good sense: The Island platform at Stratford on Avon was constructed in 1908, the same period as the new station at Newbury was constructed. 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Mikkel