Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[PhilJ W]

6 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

Hi Phil, as I understand it, the Vallejo Model Color and Model Air ranges are water-based (see here and here). I always thin the Vallejo Model Color paints with waters and get good results.

 

However, some other paints in the range do seem to be alcohol-based, which I didn't know -  e.g. some of the metallics, see here.

 

I always use Tamiya paints and they can't be mixed with some water based paints such as Humbrol, or they couldn't be when I first started using them over twenty years ago and I haven't tried to since. Alcohol based acrylic paints dry faster, sometimes too fast.

[MikeOxon]

I always add a little iso-propyl alcohol to water-based acrylics, to act as a surfactant and so improve its flow over surfaces when applied.  I tend to work with artists tubes of pigment which I apply after initially wetting the surface with an alcohol/water mix,  to build up the required depth of colour.

[57xx]

On 12/09/2022 at 09:22, PhilJ W said:

There are two types of acrylic paints. Some are alcohol based (Tamiya, Vallejo) and some are water based (Humbrol, Revell). Isopon alcohol also makes a good thinners. You should not use water to thin out alcohol based acrylics.

 

I personally wouldn't use Isopon P38 as a thinner... ;)

 

I've successfully used a home brew IPA/water/retarder mix as thinners for Vallejo. I got put off using pure water for acrylics years ago when first trying some Railmatch paints. The resulting surface tension made them a nightmare to use. I've not tried pure water with Vallejo, but having seen Mikkel's work using it, it certainly look to work well.

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, 57xx said:

 

I personally wouldn't use Isopon P38 as a thinner... ;)

 

I've successfully used a home brew IPA/water/retarder mix as thinners for Vallejo. I got put off using pure water for acrylics years ago when first trying some Railmatch paints. The resulting surface tension made them a nightmare to use. I've not tried pure water with Vallejo, but having seen Mikkel's work using it, it certainly look to work well.

Oops sorry, I meant to say that IPA is good as a brush cleaner but not on cheaper brushes as it tends to dissolve the glue holding the bristles.

[57xx]

3 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Oops sorry, I meant to say that IPA is good as a brush cleaner but not on cheaper brushes as it tends to dissolve the glue holding the bristles.

 

That's ok, I knew it was a typo (hence the winking smilie) but soon as I saw the word Isopon, car filler came to mind and it made me chuckle.

[Tim Dubya]

18 hours ago, 57xx said:

 

but soon as I saw the word Isopon, car filler came to mind and it made me chuckle.

 

Some if my best woodworking has been done with P38 🤪

[MrWolf]

I've bashed a lot of it out of rusty classic cars that had supposedly been restored. 😀

[Mikkel]

 

Progress on my second Slater’s GWR clerestory build. To recap, this is the E37 non-corridor compo with two lav’s.
 

 

 

Below is the bogie etch folded up. This time I remembered to immediately strengthen the step board brackets with solder, as they otherwise break off very easily.

 

 

 
As previously discussed the bogies in these kits are designed for inside bearings, but I prefer ordinary pinpoint bearings. This requires a bit of freestyling. I used Wizard waisted bearings, with the tip filed down to accommodate the axle boxes (see r/h bearing below). The axles boxes themselves also have to be opened up inside to fit over the bearings. This was done with a round file as shown.

 

 

The brake shoes are a very tight fit against the wheels and tend to jam. I know others have had the same problem. I found that it helps to bend the folded brass tabs that hold the brakes backwards, and then gently bend the brake shoe itself forwards to align with the wheel.

 

 

The E37 uses Dean 6’4 Bogies (right, less queen posts) while the companion C10 kit uses the 8’6 bogies (left). Selecting coaches with different bogies is a nice touch by Slaters.

 

 

 
Back to the E37, the queen posts have to be cut to allow the bogie to swivel. This photo also shows how the top part of the queen posts foul the outer bogie ends. So they must be trimmed quite short. That’s less of a problem on the C10, which has 8´6 bogies with the queen posts positioned centrally.

 

 
That’s the bogies done. Next job will be the underframe fittings.

 

 

 

After a couple of false starts there has also been progress on Newbury station building. More on that later.
 

 

 

PS: A bit of housekeeping: All builds in this thread have been completed and are summarized individually in the blog. For that reason it doesn’t seem worthwhile to replace the lost images in this thread. But if anyone has particular photos they’d like replaced I’m happy to help.

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Mikkel

[magmouse]

Looking good, Mikkel. What livery will this be in - is it part of your c.1919 series?

 

Nick.

[ChrisN]

If I ever get round to building it, one of these should turn up at Traeth Mawr as a through coach.

[Mikkel]

9 hours ago, magmouse said:

Looking good, Mikkel. What livery will this be in - is it part of your c.1919 series?

 

Nick.

 

Thanks Nick, no this is for a 1900-1904 train. I have for some time been focusing on this period on the goods front, so I need passenger trains to match it.

 

The 1919 thing is to expand the options a bit when operating my small layouts. When I tire of knocking the same 5 wagons about with the same 1-2 locos it feels refreshing to have a session with stock from another period.

 

 

9 hours ago, ChrisN said:

If I ever get round to building it, one of these should turn up at Traeth Mawr as a through coach.

 

I'd love to see that! Though no doubt your station master Mr Price will turn his back. 

 

Overall I find them nice kits to build, challenging enough to make it interesting but not so complex that it becomes a pain.

 

There are occasional quirks though. In this particular case one solebar and one lower stepboard were gapped at one end, so had to be joined back up. A production error I assume. The pre-drilled holes in the solebars also do not match the queen posts, perhaps they are re-used from the C10 kit. No big deal but it must have caused some head scratching over the years.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Mikkel

[Northroader]

Very nice looking job. “All the builds on this thread have been completed”, what are you taking??? I want some of it.

[MikeOxon]

14 hours ago, Mikkel said:

To recap, this is the E37 non-corridor compo with two lav’s.

AKA a 'Lautrec'    [colloquial English joke]

[kitpw]

14 hours ago, Mikkel said:

progress on Newbury station building

...you almost had me fooled:  intent on studying the pictures, I neglected to focus properly on the text and wondered why you were cutting coach sides (or corridors?) out of embossed brick sheet.  

 

I look forward to your reports on station building progress - bound to be informative and entertaining.  The Slater's coaches are very nice aren't they but quite hard going to build and paint.

 

[Mikkel]

20 hours ago, Northroader said:

Very nice looking job. “All the builds on this thread have been completed”, what are you taking??? I want some of it.

 

Thanks, I wish I was on something, but sadly not. Just a dull principle to only have 2-3 projects on the go at once. I recently had four and it felt chaotic!  🙂

 

 

20 hours ago, kitpw said:

...you almost had me fooled:  intent on studying the pictures, I neglected to focus properly on the text and wondered why you were cutting coach sides (or corridors?) out of embossed brick sheet.  

 

I look forward to your reports on station building progress - bound to be informative and entertaining.  The Slater's coaches are very nice aren't they but quite hard going to build and paint.

 

 

 

I'm not sure about the entertaining bit, but here are some pictures of broken plastic. 

 

I've been testing Slaters English Bond plastikard for my station building, but  the sheets I got proved highly brittle and were basically useless, simply breaking apart when I pick them up.

 

 

I have heard others comment on this issue recently. Hopefully it is just old stock that has gone bad, rather than a change of formula. The strange thing is that I have some other Slater's sheets of the same type which must be at least 15 years old. They seem just fine, and can even be bent like this without breaking:

 

 

 

So instead I turned to the Southeast Finecast sheets, which I have used in the past. These have recently been taken over by Squires, who now provide the sheets in different colours. I ordered a batch but unfortunately several of the sheets had faults in the brickwork:

 

 

Luckily, the problem areas are in the middle of the sheets, and I found I could squeeze in my station sides above and below them. I hope it's just a glitch, but for those who buy these sheets from a physical shop it might be wise to check each sheet before buying (I can't, as they aren't available in Danish shops).

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

I have  used both SEF and Slaters brick sheets (but not recently) and found that the SEF were rather too deeply moulded with soft edges/curved faces to the bricks, while the Slaters were flatter/cripser and hence will be my preference for the next part of my layout build. 

[phil_sutters]

21 hours ago, kitpw said:

...you almost had me fooled:  intent on studying the pictures, I neglected to focus properly on the text and wondered why you were cutting coach sides (or corridors?) out of embossed brick sheet.  

 

 

why not?

https://vintagenewsdaily.com/vintage-photos-capture-inside-the-jolly-tar-tavern-car-a-real-pub-that-ran-on-rails-in-london-from-the-late-1940s/

[magmouse]

27 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

why not?

https://vintagenewsdaily.com/vintage-photos-capture-inside-the-jolly-tar-tavern-car-a-real-pub-that-ran-on-rails-in-london-from-the-late-1940s/

Thank you for reminding me of the tavern carriages. I was especially tickled by the James Callaghan quote: “nobody likes these tavern cars except for the public”.

 

Nick.

 

[hayfield]

58 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

 

Thanks, I wish I was on something, but sadly not. Just a dull principle to only have 2-3 projects on the go at once. I recently had four and it felt chaotic!  🙂

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure about the entertaining bit, but here are some pictures of broken plastic. 

 

I've been testing Slaters English Bond plastikard for my station building, but  the sheets I got proved highly brittle and were basically useless, simply breaking apart when I pick them up.

 

 

I have heard others comment on this issue recently. Hopefully it is just old stock that has gone bad, rather than a change of formula. The strange thing is that I have some other Slater's sheets of the same type which must be at least 15 years old. They seem just fine, and can even be bent like this without breaking:

 

 

 

 

 

On another thread issues with plastic becoming brittle were discussed and I have spoken with a trader who orders extruded plastic parts, whilst these sheets are not extruded apparently the issue is caused by the items being made when the plastic gets too hot, this fault sometimes shows up immediately of after time and may not affect the whole production, from memory its when the plastic gets too hot. If this happens with new stock just return to the seller with proof of purchase

 

One other thought is to slightly warm up the plastic first if being bent to smallish radii

[Mikkel]

On 27/01/2023 at 09:07, Jol Wilkinson said:

I have  used both SEF and Slaters brick sheets (but not recently) and found that the SEF were rather too deeply moulded with soft edges/curved faces to the bricks, while the Slaters were flatter/cripser and hence will be my preference for the next part of my layout build. 

 

I actually like the slight less sharply defined edes to the SEF sheets, as it gives a worn impression. That was also Jim Smith Wright's reason for using them on his superb New Street: https://p4newstreet.com/lnwrbuilding/

 

You'll note though that he hasn't picked out the mortar courses, and this is where I have had problems with the SEF sheets. I use the wash method to do the mortar, and the results can be less than satisfying with the SEF sheets, as illustrated if you look closely at my weighbridge:

 

 

 

On the subject of pointwork, I was interested to see @GWR57xx's method on his Hinton Road thread. He uses light weight filler as seen here: 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/142457-hinton-road-engine-shed/?do=findComment&comment=4963408

 

See also Steve's video here:

 

 

 

[Mikkel]

On 27/01/2023 at 10:00, hayfield said:

 

 

On another thread issues with plastic becoming brittle were discussed and I have spoken with a trader who orders extruded plastic parts, whilst these sheets are not extruded apparently the issue is caused by the items being made when the plastic gets too hot, this fault sometimes shows up immediately of after time and may not affect the whole production, from memory its when the plastic gets too hot. If this happens with new stock just return to the seller with proof of purchase

 

One other thought is to slightly warm up the plastic first if being bent to smallish radii

 

Thanks, that's good to know. I'll see if I can get a better batch of the Slater's sheets before I decide whether to go with them or continue with the SEF sheets. The Slater's sheets certainly seem easier to paint. I used them for the platform edging in the bay at Farthing (before I learnt about English bond!).

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Mikkel

[Mikkel]

Some progress on the main station building at Farthing. To recap, it’s a copy of the one at Newbury as originally built, as seen in the GWR drawing above.

 

 

 

A drawing does not necessarily show what was actually built, so I’ve been poring over the few Edwardian photos I have of Newbury, and photos of the station as it currently appears. The sketch above shows changes that I have so far found, including various uncertainties. Most of the changes appear to have been made after the station was built, so with a few exceptions I am going with the original GWR drawing.

 

 

 
The drawing was imported and re-drawn in Inkscape, allowing me to cut the brick sheets in my Silhouette cutter. The machine can’t cut styrene deeper than 10 thou, so it basically scribes the outline on the back of the brick sheet and I then cut through with a scalpel.

 

 

I ended up using the Finecast (now Squires) bricksheets, despite the issues discussed above. The sheets work well in my Silhouette and I prefer an appearance that matches my existing buildings. But I do hope Squires will improve their quality control.

 

 

 
The outer brick skin for the building is now done, a first little milestone.

 

 

 

Am now working on the windows. A key feature of Newbury station are the rounded corners of the window frames, and the multiple small glazing panels above the main windows and doors. This presents some challenges.

 

 

 
The narrow grilles (is that really the word?) in the upper window framing are below 0.5 mms and the Silhouette cutter struggles to cut them neatly, even when I make them thicker.

 

 

 

So I cheated. I cut the top horisontal bar in one layer (left) and the verticals in another (center). This gives a neater cut. The raised framing on the right will also be added. 

 

 

 

A dry fit. Some further tweaking and work on the lower frame remains, but I think mass-production of the windows is within reach now. They will eventually be recessed more deeply.

 

 

 

I am now experimenting with the glazing for the restaurant/cafe. Wish me luck.

 

[magmouse]

Wow - this really is an epic project. It will be worth the effort of getting the silhouette cutter to do the windows to a satisfactory standard, given how many you have to do. The total effect will be spectacular!

 

Nick.

[Ian Smith]

Excellent Mikkel.  That window frame looks particularly effective.

Ian

[kitpw]

12 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

The narrow grilles (is that really the word?)

...'glazing bars' or, sometimes, 'astragals' although the latter is really the shape of the moulding but as it was commonplace in Georgian windows, the name of the moulding was applied to the glazing bars. You've taken on quite a challenge with the (Newbury) Farthing station building but results are looking really worthwhile.  The separation of the horizontal and vertical glazing bars is a creative solution! 0.5mm is pretty narrow. 

 

...and I do wish you luck!!