Shapeways Announce Frosted Extreme Detail

[Rods_of_Revolution]

Apparently as of the 15th of April, Shapeways are planning on providing a high resolution Frosted material called Frosted Extreme Detail. FXD will have a layer height of 16 microns vs the 29 microns of Frosted Ultra Detail. Frosted Detail will be discontinued on the 15th of April.

 

Hopefully this unlocks the potential to use FXD parts almost out of the box to produce molds! This of course would be announced just as I ordered a bunch of FUD parts to create molds!

 

All the best,

 

Jack

[bigP]

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[mgbusa]

Sorry to hear bigP but for me it is great news since I do one or two pieces in total.

[Dazzler Fan]

*

 

I think this will bring more detail to N-scale.

 

The Sheave wheels will now be available for 15' diameter

wheels. at 2mm/foot.
 

 

Noel

[billbedford]

That's a real shame I feel.  Whilst the quality wasn't as good as FUD you could get a good 'shell' from FD for molding purposes.

 

 

I don't understand this, are you saying you were using FD to make mould or to make patterns?

 

FXD has a smaller step in the z axis so it should mean that there is less finishing to do whether you are making mould or patterns.

[bigP]

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[Multiple identity account]

Hey everyone,

This really does seem like good news (bigP, I know how you feed though). Before I get too excited, I just wanted to ask a few questions...

 

1) With the layer height dropping down to 16 microns, does this mean that the ribbed effect most models have will virtually disappear?

2) Again with the 16 micron height does this mean surface details lesser than 0.3mm (eg: 0.1mm and 0.2mm) can be printed?

3) What will the cost be like? I've seen other 3D printers who do 16 micron and their charges are literally an arm and a leg.

 

If the charges are too high then I'd have to agree with bigP as FUD already does some nice detail actually... If not then I'm a happy bunny!!

 

Cheers!
J.

PS: Thanking God I didn't order any 3D prints as yet....
PPS: I've got to start re-modelling almost 5 models pretty soon.

[bigP]

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[Multiple identity account]

The only picture of FXD so far from Shapeways....

[billbedford]

Yeah I was experimenting with using a FD print to make a mold from then resin casting.  I felt that the quality and detail of an FD print was good enough for what I was doing (in N) and it was cost effective too.

Shapeways Customer Service have already stated that FUD will remain the same price and FUD is already cost inefficient for what I am doing. 

 

 

Have you tried detailed plastic (acrylic detail)? it's cheaper than FUD though you can't do very fine stuff with it.

[Marbelup]

Having read the discussion on the Shapeways forum, it sounds like Shapeways will be losing some customers. It may be a bonus for i.Materialise!

 

It seems that a lot of people think that Shapeways are the only 3D printing company.

 

I was also interested in the comment about models being broken in transit due to the use of "air bag" packing materials - I call them pillows. I have had a one or two problems with shipments from i.Materialise due to the pillows, but mostly they use the foam peanuts. The obvious problem with the pillows is they expand during air transport and exert considerable pressure on the printed part(s) causing distortion or breakage.

 

It surprises me that the companies that sell the pillows don't educate their customers not to use the pillows for delicate items.

[bigP]

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[Rods_of_Revolution]

I would imagine that FXD will cost around 50% more than FUD with a slightly higher start up cost.

 

I haven't used FD a lot; almost all my models are produced in FUD so I won't really miss FD. To me the time saved during clean up is worth the extra cost.

 

Regards,

 

Jack

[Quarryscapes]

Just ordered my first FD wagon body too to see if it was a more efficient option than FUD. (FUD wagons are stupidly expensive and the finish isn't all that good). 

 

FXD Looks to have a nicer finish but it's certainly not light years ahead of FUD. Will wait and see on the pricing before making up my mind. 

[AJ427]

Seems that the FXD bounding box is 50x50x200mm so only just big enough for most 4mm stock without any sort of sprued parts. Cost is about 70% higher than FUD with the same startup cost so maybe not that useful anyway except for smaller parts.

[Quarryscapes]

Yes that bounding box is going to be awkward. Just sending off some more axleboxes and buffers see what comes back in FXD. I'm already happy with the FUD outcome of them, but the artwork includes the nut and washers drawn correctly on the buffers and the full lettering on the axlebox which would be nice if it did come out that bit clearer. (The writing is just about legible in FUD)

[Wild Boar Fell]

The only picture of FXD so far from Shapeways....

Is it just me or does this look a bit of an unfair comparison between the two prints, as they have been printed in very different orientations?

Wild Boar Fell

[SpoorObjecten]

Some more pictures.

 

[MikeTrice]

Is the chair being painted, as printed, or has it been sanded first?

[Nelson Jackson]

Those pictures actually look really, really good, this is promising for the future of 3D printing as quality gets better and better we will be able to create some fine models with minimum cleanup, although the downside is price we can only hope this goes down after time....

[SpoorObjecten]

Is the chair being painted, as printed, or has it been sanded first?

 

I just checked with the person painting the model for pictures.

He soaked it in acetone for an hour before painting, no sanding was applied

 

Here ya go I personally dont recommend to use acetone for an hour on models that are thin and fragile as the acetone makes the material more brittle,, thus thin models break easier

[Pete Harvey]

So what do you recommend is the best way to clean the printed models?

[lyneux]

It's nice to see the new material but disappointed that Shapeways still don't allow you to specify the print orientation which is essential to get the best result from FUD (and likely FXD).

[SpoorObjecten]

Some extra info on orientation concerns:

 

Orientation
We get that defining print orientation of your models is important, especially in like FUD where the support material changes the surface texture and detail. Unfortunately, it's also extremely tricky for us to offer because part orientation radically change the production cost of a part. 

FUD has three main cost components, all of which depend largely on part orientation:

 

Build Material and Support Material:
Orientation can change this component of pricing by 2-3X in common orientations, and much more in extreme cases. The way we orient today, support material material accounts for around 1/3rd of the total cost of a FUD part. If, however, a train car is printed filled with support material instead of as a "bathtub" then support material cost can increase several fold and become the majority of part cost. If parts are printed at odd angles, this can get much worse a huge block of support material is needed to support the part at that angle.
 

Machine Time: 
Certain orientations but can increase the machine cost of a single part by 10-20X. As an example, when a train lying flat, it's printed alongside many other parts of similar heights, and the print time is shared between all of these parts. However, if that same model is oriented vertically, then that entire tray will take much longer to build - the machines take only a little bit less time to build a layer that's almost empty. That single part is responsible for all of that additional build time and therefore the all of that machine cost, making that one part incredibly expensive. It also can make the tray take many days to print, making it so the other parts in the tray can't be shipped quickly. We could, of course, print a tray of only very tall parts, but that we'd need to have very long lead times to give us the chance to collect enough very tall parts.
 

Labor: 
A significant amount of labor is spent on cleaning support material, and therefore depends on the amount of support material used and on orientation. Too much support material is why FD was so tricky and expensive, and certain FUD models are almost as bad in certain orientations.

 

 

Pricing a material where costs vary so much based on the specific shape and orientation of the part is extremely hard. There are three approaches we've thought about: 1) price all parts based on the worst case orientation, making them extremely expensive, 2) price all parts based on a distribution of orientation and part cost, making all parts much more expensive than today and making individual part pricing extremely unfair, 3) developing a way to estimate costs in real time as the part is oriented by the customer by simulating material usage, build time, and the average characteristics of the other parts in the tray. This last option is the only one that we think would give you a price you'd be happy with, and the only one that lives up to our standards of fair, transparent and consistent pricing. Unfortunately, it's also extremely technically difficult.

What does all this mean? We're concerned about orientation and thinking a lot about it, but orientation in FUD is very hard and won't happen for quite some time.

[Rods_of_Revolution]

Orientation doesn't necessarily mean greater cost. Shapeways could have an option which basically says you can choose orientation at no extra cost but you have to wait until your model will pack efficiently in your chosen orientation with other items being printed. I'm sure most people would wait a few more days for their models if they could chose orientation.

 

All the best,

 

Jack