mikemeg Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 In one of the other build threads I think I mentioned that the only one of Arthur Kimber's North Eastern kits, which I haven't built, was the Q5/1. As Arthur has very nearly sold out of these kits, I ordered one with a view to building this after I complete the J24, which is another of Arthur's earlier kits. When the Q5/1 kit arrived, all neatly boxed up, taped to the box were two further sheets of etched brass and some brief instructions. This set of etches is for the body of the ex-NER Class T3, LNER Class Q7. As this kit has been under development for a little while, it seems sensible to crack on with it a.s.a.p. so leaving the Q5/1 for later, after the J24 is completed. Fifteen of these locos were built from 1919 and, unlike the earlier T, T1 and T2 classes (LNER Q5 and Q6), these locos were three cylinder 0-8-0's. Also, unlike the earlier North Eastern 0-8-0's, these locos had raised footplates to clear the driving wheels, with lowered portions at the front and rear. These locos were also coupled to the North Eastern 4125 gallon tender; the other Q's used the 3940 gallon tender. I'm not sure where these locos were initially based, though Hull did have some during the 1920's, however for much of their lives they were all based at Tyne Dock. Certainly in the 1950 stock list all fifteen were based there and they were all withdrawn from that shed in late 1962. I can still remember seeing fourteen of them on a Sunday 'shed bash' of Tyne Dock in early 1962. I don't have a prototype photo of a Q7, so if anyone does have such a photo, which can be shown in the public domain, then I would be very grateful for an electronic copy to post on this thread. So to the build :- As with Arthur's B15 kit, the footplate of the Q7 has multiple levels, with lower portions at the front and rear. To allow this footplate to be built and to remain rigid, through the build, Arthur has included a cradle as an integral part of the footplate. This cradle is designed to be split off, once the body is assembled, with the footplate valances then being dressed off level. The footplate, as with all of Arthur's models, uses two layers of etch; the lower layer being full thickness and the upper layer being half etched. So, the lower layer has been separated, the drag beam and buffer beam folded down and the two valances, with their cradle sides have also been folded down. The front and rear portions of the lower layer of the footplate use half etched sections, which overlap and are soldered up to form the the relevant footplate sections. The centre portion of the footplate overlay has been soldered to the lower layer and the bracing fitted to reinforce the cradle, after which the valve cover supports have been folded and fitted. The next job, which must be done very carefully, is to form the various radii for the front footplate overlay, including the valve cover, and then solder that in place at the front end. Anyway, that's the stage I'm at with this build. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 The front footplate overlay has now been soldered to the lower footplate layer, using the lamp irons as a guide for location. All of the various radii seem to line up. The upper frames are then soldered to the footplate after having had the line of bolts added at the front end. It is possible to just push these half etched marks out to simulate 'large rivets' but I drill the half etched holes through to around .020", then insert and solder pieces of .5 mm wire, which are then all dressed off to protrude around 20 to 25 thou on the outside of the frame and filed flush at the rear. These look much more like the bolts which were present on the prototype. Now to tackle the rear footplate and tighten up the upper frame on the left of the picture. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Not hanging about, then! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 Not hanging about, then! Nope; never do; though being retired helps!! But I normally put in no more than about six hours a day on the models and that'll get one built to completion in three to six weeks, depending on the complexity!! Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 History here http://www.lner.info/locos/Q/q7.shtml Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Having fitted the rear footplate overlays, now time to tackle the cab. The cab on the Q7 was quite unusual in that the cab front sheet was set some distance in from the front of the cab side sheets; somewhere around 9". This resulted in a very small working space in the cab between the fall plate and the firebox backhead. The cab front has been assembled from the two layers of etch and the extension boxes at the bottom of each side of the cab front have also been assembled. The cab sides have been cut out and the beading added to the rear of these sides. They are just sat in their slots in the footplate, up against the cab front, just to check that everything will sit square when the cab sides are completed and the cab is assembled. Apparent from this check and from this photograph is that the front handrail stanchion, on each side of the cab, will actually show on the inside of the cab side sheeting, so will have to be soldered in and then dressed flush with the rear of the cab side. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted May 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 7, 2015 The cab front is set back by exactly 9". ArthurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Marshall Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I haven't got the best of pictures of Q7 (apart from a few under copyright), but these might be some help. The first is from the photo-forums.net site - I was pointed at this site by Chris Davies, a well respected photographer, who was a source of much helpful information on railways in the North East, in particular and is sadly missed. Many of his pictures are on this web site. The others I have are close-ups of the preserved example - these might be of use for some details, even though they aren't great photography (I've never claimed to be a photographer!), but at present they seem to bee too big to upload. I'll try a follow up with just one attachment, if I can shrink it. Regards, Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 That photo makes me wonder if the Q7 might have become a 2-8-0 design... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Naah why carry an extra wheel and framing around when you need all the traction you can get... I guess one thing that could have happened is the boiler get longer again..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Marshall Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 It's actually showing the similarity to the B16/1s - remove the leading coupled wheelset and insert a bogie..... Should have said that this is on a railtour - passenger work was unusual. 5 of these engines were fitted with twin Westinghouse air pumps for operating the bottom doors on the bogie iron ore wagons used on Tyne Dock to Consett trains. Still no luck shrinking those pictures. In BR days, the class was mainly allocated to Tyne Dock, with brief periods away for some at Blaydon and Sunderland between 1956 and 1959. Regards, Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 .....Still no luck shrinking those pictures..... Open them up in Microsoft Paint, then use the "Stretch / Skew" function to reduce the percentage to 50% or lower, then save them as ".jpeg" files if they are in a different format. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Many thanks to the posters who have posted or referenced photos of these locos. On the model, the cab sides are now fully assembled with their beading and beaded window surrounds and with the retainers for the internal sliding windows. Most of the handrail stanchions, for the cab sides, have also been added. The cab sides have then been soldered to the cab front, now clearly showing that 9" setback. The front handrail stanchion, on each side of the cab, has been filed flush with the inside of the cabside platework before each of the cab sides was soldered into the footplate and to the cab front. One of the advantages of digital photography; allowing the taking of 'proving' photos, which can then be thrown away (or posted on here!) once they have done their job. Now on to roll the cab roof and detail it, without yet soldering it to the cab sides until the backhead and cab glazing is completed. Once this has a boiler, then it will begin to resemble a locomotive. Once again it is worth mentioning that for an early set of etches, these are really not half bad; in fact they're very, very good. The proof of that will be whether this early set of etches will allow the build of a complete and working model - so far Arthur hasn't failed to provide that!! Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Open them up in Microsoft Paint, then use the "Stretch / Skew" function to reduce the percentage to 50% or lower, then save them as ".jpeg" files if they are in a different format. Or use the Image editor on here open file reduce size to 1280 wide and save. Then post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Open them up in Microsoft Paint, then use the "Stretch / Skew" function to reduce the percentage to 50% or lower, then save them as ".jpeg" files if they are in a different format.Or use Photoshop Image/Resize and set the 'x' to 800. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted May 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2015 Does anyone out there have a close-up of the sandboxes as fitted to the rear of preserved Q7? Many thanks ArthurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Marshall Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Not a very detailed shot (cropped from a scan of a photo in a book), but you can see the rear sandbox - looks a lot like those fitted beneath the bunker on the BR batch of J72s - I'll add one here for comparison (my own picture cropped). Hope this helps. Regards, Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Marshall Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Here's my attempt at shrinking a couple of other shots - they may only be of limited use - the position of the engine in the museum didn't allow better angles (well that's my excuse!). Regards, Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 After selecting the appropriate boiler wrapper - two are provided, the earlier NER boiler and the later LNER/BR boiler; each has different dome location - the half etched holes for the Ross pop safety valves are drilled out and then the whole thing rolled. After rolling, the firebx sides are then teased back to straight and then bent at the appropriate place so that the firebox lower sides now revert to the vertical. The boiler is then seam soldered to form a tube, prior to adding the front circular formers and the front firebox former. A quick sit of the boiler, on the footplate, just to check the various fits and clearances. Now to move on to the detailing of this boiler/firebox and finalising the fit against the cab front and the smokebox saddle. Looks a little more like a locomotive now. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 After selecting the appropriate boiler wrapper - two are provided, the earlier NER boiler and the later LNER/BR boiler; each has different dome location - the half etched holes for the Ross pop safety valves are drilled out and then the whole thing rolled. After rolling, the firebx sides are then teased back to straight and then bent at the appropriate place so that the firebox lower sides now revert to the vertical. The boiler is then seam soldered to form a tube, prior to adding the front circular formers and the front firebox former. A quick sit of the boiler, on the footplate, just to check the various fits and clearances. Now to move on to the detailing of this boiler/firebox and finalising the fit against the cab front and the smokebox saddle. Looks a little more like a locomotive now. Cheers Mike Unmistakably a Q7 already -nice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 After a bit of reworking on the boiler, just a quick check of the setup on the chimney and dome. Nothing is yet fixed, so there may be the odd gap, where there shouldn't be a gap, but these photos do indicate how much adjustment needs to be done to the chimney and dome seating. Next job is the detailing of the smokebox/boiler/firebox and the fitting of weight into the boiler barrel. The cab roof has also been rolled and is just sitting astride the cab sides, awaiting detailing. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 A little more progress on the Q7, while I await the arrival of a new chimney and some nickel silver boiler bands. The detailing of the firebox is almost complete with the various washout plugs and, lower down, the rims around the washout plug cut-outs. The smokebox saddle has also been completed and is fixed to the footplate. The cab roof has also been detailed though not yet fixed to the cab sides. Soldering those rims to the washout plug cut outs proved to be a challenge, eventually I pushed them onto cocktail sticks to do the positioning while doing the soldering. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 The last thing to add to the smokebox/boiler/firebox sub assembly is the boiler bands. I confess that I never like adding these and have always had to fight with the brass ones to get them to solder to the boiler barrel. Arthur now does his boiler bands in nickel silver and much thinner than the earlier brass ones. These solder up very much more easily than the brass ones. What I normally do is tin one side of the band, very lightly and then solder one end under the boiler. The band is then pulled tight against the boiler barrel and gradually soldered around the full circumference. On this loco I did mark the positions of the boiler bands right around the full circumference of the wrapper, obviously before the wrapper was rolled, as a means of trying to keep the bands straight and evenly spaced, though the wrapper does have witness marks, at its edges, indicating the position of these bands. It's advisable to proceed with this soldering in one direction only, to minimise any effects of the boiler band expanding and thus rising off the surface of the boiler wrapper. Once each boiler band has been fully soldered around its full circumference then I clean the band up with a very fine file and the trusty glass fibre brush, so that no solder is visible on or around the boiler band. I'm aiming for a thickness of around 2 - 3 thou, which, even then, is slightly overscale and which should be around .00166" (one and two thirds thou or a scale 1/8"). Finally a photo - where's all this sunshine suddenly come from? - with the loco superstructure largely complete and now ready for the major sub-assemblies to be fixed. Then it can be taken off its cradle and the footplate valances dressed off level before the 'dangly bits' off the footplate are added - steps, frames, wheels, etc.. Perhaps its starting to look like a Q7? Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 And just by way of a change, 69798 (as yet anonymous) on her running in trials at Hessle Haven. After an initial touch of binding, she now runs as she should and can go into the paintshop. This is the trial build of Arthur's A6 and it does build into a lovely model. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Marshall Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Ah the A6s (well most NER classes, I admit!) are a favourite of mine - these two look good. Love one of these in N. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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