A Pennsylvanian Shortline

[bertiedog]

For the Mantua Camelback detailing, a pack from Ebay that will suit, apart from the tender frames, which I already have. It has crossheads etc, which can replace the plastic Mantua parts, and apart from the pipework and assorted cylinders, there are brake shoes and hangers. Should be able to detail to a decent standard.

 

The brass crosshead can be tinned with lead free solder, wiped away hot to give it a steel finish rather than brass.

[alastairq]

The brass crosshead can be tinned with lead free solder, wiped away hot to give it a steel finish rather than brass.

 

thanks for that one,

 

 

I have the remains of a Mantua switcher with outside cranks.... probably scaled more for S scale than HO, body-wise....ran very spectacularly, as I recall...until the outside cranks suddenly lost quartering...they were simply riveted onto the axle ends...... a pity as I quite like outside cranks......they were plated as I recall [i have the bits somewhere] so wouldn't solder.....the loco was a fiver....[it's on the box, which houses something entirely different....]

[bertiedog]

Actually using solder on lost wax brass castings works very well to give a good silver steel finish. The trick is even better with modern lead free solder, which is near pure tin, and barely tarnishes, unlike older lead/tin solder.

 

 

Clean the lost wax cast brass item in acid, citric or acetic will do, hot, (not boiling), if possible, in a glass jar or tray, pop in and stir till bright clean, pull out, rinse and fit to a pin chuck or suitable clamp to hold it.

 

Warm up the lost wax brass casting in a gentle gas torch flame, and plunge into Bakers flux when hot, but not red hot!!! This fluxes the surface, and then plunge into molten lead free solder, after re-heating. (Do a small metal tin on the stove to pre melt the solder).(Bakers flux is best for this, but any acid water based flux will work, Carr's etc.)

 

Then re-heat the casting, and re-plunge into Bakers, and again re warm, and the solder will have run all over the surfaces of the casting.

 

Take a fine wire suede shoe brush, and warm the item to melt the solder, and brush away the excess solder, shaking or banging the item on the bench also shifts excess. This may have to be repeated several times on intricate castings.

 

To remove the final excess and finish, get a damp kitchen cloth, and heating the item as needed, wipe away the surplus, and it should leave just a fine film of tin, not covering details etc.

 

It can help to re-dip in Bakers at this point and re-heat, to get out the final excess from nooks and crannies. Wash in cloudy ammonia to neutralise any acid and rinse well.

 

A final wipe at heat with a just damp cloth, imparts a steel like sheen to the brass, which is extremely durable, better than plating as it has alloyed the tin with the brass. Lead free solder will even work with brass tyred wheels and lasts well.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

New lathe turned stainless steel front wheels for the Mantua Camelback, with more scale NMRA RP-25 wheel tyres and width, quite why Mantua thought the plastic version was RP-25 is beyond me..... The rest of the bogie is fine, with a coil spring to provide some down force, and centering, as well. The bogie picks up power on one side, so only one wheel insulated.

 

[bertiedog]

A solution for the Mantua Camelback tender wheels, which are crude brass and plastic mixed, they run true and little else, again with no standard flanges, made all the odder by the locomotive wheels being exact RP-25 profile.

 

A box of nearly 40 year old un-machined nickel silver tyred Hamblings bogie wheels, just the right size with reduced flange. Un-machined they were samples at the time when brass was used. One is even older, a 1950's BFB moulding. that has got mixed in.

 

 

 

They are spoked, but that can be filled with epoxy putty, the brass boss drilled to suit a metric axle, all insulated so one side will need shorting to the axles, with a phosphor bronze shim washer soldered on after assembly. The filled spokes can be profiled to the right shaped surface for cast US wheels, with a black finished face.

 

The Mantua is all run in now, and runs extremely well, nice and quiet, and lots of power. The gear set is the plastic version, surprisingly accurate.

 

Stephen.

[highpeak]

Your work with these old models is very interesting. It's inspired me to dig out an old Hobbytown RS-3 that I bought in the 70s. I made a bit of a mess of it because I was a bit too enthusiastic with a file on one of the bearing slots, so there was too much play in the gear train and it never ran well. But your writings persuaded me to give it a looking over. I shimmed out the loose bearing and right now I'm running in one truck. It sounded very noisy at first but it's running quite nicely now. I love the smell of the big Pittmann motor!

 

Given my track record of never finishing anything if I can avoid it, I'm not sure where this will go, but it's fun looking at this heavy metal technology. I remember visiting a model shop in Bar Mills, ME. The owner had a large layout in his basement, part of which was his model shop. The layout ran through the shop and disappeared back into the basement. He had made up a Canadian Pacific passenger train. There were about fourteen or so cars, which if you looked at them closely were actually rather crude. But that wasn't really the point. When this long train passed through the scene in the store, you instinctively stepped back a bit, because it had a real presence about it. You could almost feel the breeze, and the noise as it ran through the interlocking was amazing. All hauled by one Hobbytown Alco.

 

He also had a LaBelle gas-electric car that my friend assured me he had watched being built. The shop owner was unfortunately an alcoholic, and he had been three sheets to the wind when assembling the kit, and LaBelle wooden kits take some building. It was exquisite.

[bertiedog]

A well set up Hobbytown mechanism will run as good as any, better than any RTR, and coast a bit as well, as the power is shut down. Spares are available on EBAY occasionally, but most bits and pieces will not wear out anyway.

 

They always have a bit of gear noise at speed, but Labelle silicon grease cures that. The Pittman might need the commutator wiped with acetone to clean a bit, oil has got on it! The bogies gearbox can be stuffed with Labelle grease.

 

 

If both bogies are powered on a RS-3 it should haul over a hundred delrin bogied or decent Kadee or CV bogied stock, and with ease. There were some without the flywheel, some with as standard. Worth sorting a flywheel out if not there.

 

As you have found it is set up that has to be done, all play removed, de-burring parts, and long running in to get the design to work at best. The motor is near indestructible, with lots of power, makes sure it's bearings are lubed occasionally with a thick oil that will not creep on to the commutator.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

The Lionel 040 from Ebay, which is complete, the "missing buffers" are usually missing on US loco! No couplers fitted, but standard draft boxes should take Kadee.

Motor runs, but no drive belts fitted, and so looking for some fine O rings or drive bands from recorders. Nigel Lawton's belts are too small, but a lay shaft could be added for extension and double reduction as well.

 

 

 

 

The wheels need the flanges reduced, and better side rods and crosshead fitted. I have an old set of Kemtron Docksider Bakers valve gear in lost wax castings that might fit,

 

 

 

As usual with Lionel very well made, but not scale equipment by any means, but can be detailed up to standard.

 

[shortliner]

Stephen, I don't know if they are still in use - but dentists (orthodontists?) used to use small bands which may help - worth asking - I never even knew that Lionel made a dockside tank in HO - after detailing it should look good - the chassis is obviously a metal casting - is the body die-cast or plastic?

[bertiedog]

Body is very tough styrene or ABS, die cast chassis, and metal wheels with plastic axles, and gears.

 

The drive goes to both axles, it would run without the rods on. Built in headlight, which shines through the number plate!!!, not the lamp, what were Lionel thinking of?

 

 

There is a layshaft with integral worm gears made in hard Nylon, and the belt drive from the three pole motors shaft via a pulley to the layshaft,

 

The body is quite good, as is the chassis and cylinders, but and it's big but, the drive is odd, due to crude design and bad moulding of the gears, with flash on the worm gears. I cleared the problems and fitted an O ring as drive and it works as most Lionels do, at high speeds only, ...... low speeds are simply not on.

 

 

So a major re-build, the wheels are usable, perhaps, but I have I mind a set of smaller Gibson wheels or similar, conventional gear box and motor, and new pickups, (the original are over engineered), with Kemtron valve gear for the Varney Docksider, plus the usual replacement handrails, pipes and brake cylinders etc.

 

It's a pity the Lionel motor can't be used, it fills the cab and can't be coupled to a gearbox, so a replacement would be easier. It runs fine though, and might be of use in another chassis. It is only a three pole, but has skewed magnetic jaw poles, a unique Lionel design, smoothing the 3 pole design in the same way as the armature poles being skewed.

 

Being toy designs they are made to last, but crude in modelling terms, but the Lionel 040 was noted to be scale size unlike Varney and Rivarrossi,..... both way over scale size for no reason.

 

Only Kemtron, and Lionel made scale versions, with Lionel doing a proper smokebox type with the saddletank, it seems from Baldwin drawings for industrial switchers.

 

Because of it's narrow more scale width, at a glance I had assumed it was over height, but it is lower than usual, and would benefit from even smaller wheels to lower further for an even better appearance.

 

With a modern motor the cab would be open for full crew backhead and detailing, better than the Varney Docksider.

 

It might even be worth changing it to an 060, quite feasible for such a saddletank.............

 

Stephen.

 

 

 

 

 

[shortliner]

Thanks for that - It'll be interesting to see results.

[bertiedog]

The Varney version of the B&O 040

 

The 040 Lionel

[bertiedog]

I need a new controller for the layout and from another posting came this reference by Shortliner,which is a suitable PWM controller, max control at low speed, and cheap to build.

 

 

http://www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/851.HTM

 

They are available built up as well, but I had all the parts to hand, or equivalents etc., and have bread boarded the design and tried it, works fine, and now going to transfer to PC pad board for adding LEDs and variable rates to momentum and lower pulse option.

 

I have a suitable 16 VAC supply transformer, the unit will not have the transformer in the controller but remote.

 

Stephen.

[shortliner]

Stephen - glad to see that I'm not the only one impressed with that controller - mine works very well with the UE powered boxcabs as well as the original version

[bertiedog]

Stephen - glad to see that I'm not the only one impressed with that controller - mine works very well with the UE powered boxcabs as well as the original version

 

Just transferred the circuit to a PC pad board 2x2 size, with heat sink 2x1 so quite compact, tested it on the scope and all works fine on the track as well.

 

Total cost about £4 or so, at discount prices, (I always buy in bulk, ebay is good source), may be up to double that at Maplins high street shops buying just what's needed, still very inexpensive though.

 

 

The only expensive bit would be the transformer, I have lots to hand, for railway generally ex CB radio 5 Amp or more 12 volt power supplies! Mind you to run an railway you really only need one big transformer. You can use Computer switched power supplies, but only if you know the issues like loading.

 

If available a toroidal coreless transformer is best, they run cooler and do not hum.

 

Capacitors across the output of this PWM controller damp any noise with some mechanisms, experiment to find the right values.

 

With traditional motors and that includes Mashima, it does not cause overheating, but would if the motor is under full load at lower speeds, so keep this in mind. It will not affect smaller layouts.

 

I would not by the way try Pittman motors on a Pentroller, they are 1amp or lower rating, unless modified especially by the producer, Stuart Hine.

 

He designed it for low current 2mm motors and finescale OO mechanisms, like Portescap, or coreless motors, not the current hungry Pittman. It would be all right to test a Pittman on it without load, but in use would take the controller over the limit.

 

This PWM circuit is good for about 3 amps at 12 volts, before the IC regulator shuts down, pretty bulletproof. This assumes the 3 amp regulator is fitted!!

[thnksno]

I'm not big on steam, but do have one steam locomotive... A cheap Model Power 0-4-0 Shifter. I'm suggesting it as an alternative chassis to those you've been working on, it seems you've run into some challenges with the Lionel.

 

The one I have is a bit longer than those shown, but it appears MP makes a short one as well. I've never been a fan of MP stuff, this shifter was acquired as part of another deal, but considering the extra jewelry and bits you plan on adding maybe one would make a good base?

 

[bertiedog]

I'm not big on steam, but do have one steam locomotive... A cheap Model Power 0-4-0 Shifter. I'm suggesting it as an alternative chassis to those you've been working on, it seems you've run into some challenges with the Lionel.

 

The one I have is a bit longer than those shown, but it appears MP makes a short one as well. I've never been a fan of MP stuff, this shifter was acquired as part of another deal, but considering the extra jewelry and bits you plan on adding maybe one would make a good base?

 

 

 

I think I'll stick to the Lionel bits, the chassis remains metal etc., and can have better and smaller wheels fitted. No fan of the MP or equivalent modern ones I'm afraid.

[JWB]

US outline 0-4-0Ts are sort of a conundrum. The ones on Class Is were almost all used at shops and roundhouses for almost the sole purpose of hauling much larger dead steam locos from place to place -- they were short, and they could fit on the turntable with, say, a 2-10-2. Smaller ones were used by industrials for roughly the same purpose as a more modern Trackmobile, shifting individual cars around. The B&O docksider prototype was pretty unusual and not typical, but the 1940s manufacturers loved it for being an 0-4-0T big enough to put a motor of that era in.

 

Among the few railroads that actually used an 0-4-0T in line haul service was the Edgemoor & Manetta. This lasted quite late, into the late 1960s at least. Photo at http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=10071 but, though the outline is roughly similar to a docksider, in size it's actually closer to the old HOe Minitrains Baldwin. This is the major issue with using an HO 0-4-0T, most models are way too big.

[thnksno]

I think I'll stick to the Lionel bits, the chassis remains metal etc., and can have better and smaller wheels fitted. No fan of the MP or equivalent modern ones I'm afraid.

 

Lol! The kids get a kick out of it, especially when it's going 239MPH! There's another loco I have they like too, it shoots 3" sparks from the wheels!

[bertiedog]

A small additon to the Scenic side of the Pennsylvanian Shortline, a Woodland Scenics Donkey engine, a vertical boiler and single cylinder non compound steam engine and a rolling mill, with the engine and boiler on a portable wood based sledge base. The cast metal kits were on offer under £5, less than US list. It is very small, 30mm high 20mm long, 10mm wide for the engine on the sledge.

 

 

The engine and boiler are cast in pewter, lead free, and very finely detailed indeed, more so than some UK produced items.

 

 

The mill is connected via a belt drive,(not fitted as yet), and appears to be a crushing roller for animal food stuffs etc, with a cylone tank and delivery chutes to sacks. The belt drive is made from paper strip glued on to the pulleys

 

 

Its built on a wood strip to be recessed into the baseboard, with a small shed position behind it, with an open cover for the mill

 

 

There is spare space on the layout between the station and the road with the engine house, this is going to have a workshop building and a feed store by it and this can go in the feedstore yard. I now needs some sacks and a coal box to go with the engine, and a couple of figures.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/14930-identification-on-manufacturer-of-building-kit/page__pid__137331__st__0entry137331

 

Please refer to this posting to identify a kit building, thanks

[JWB]

You might try posting about this here http://kitforums.com/ But if what you mean is you want to use the photos to build a model for yourself, there should be no need for permission. In fact, there's sort of a sub-hobby of guys who look at photos of Fine Scale Miniatures kits and reverse-engineer them to build their own versions (without, presumably, spending US$300). So far, I don't believe anyone's been sued! If you want to produce your own kit, that would be a different matter, but even there, this is a pretty simple thing, and as long as you just make something sorta-kinda with a different name, there shouldn't be a problem there, either.

 

Bar Mills Models offers a number of kits that are fairly similar to this, too, though I don't believe this is a Bar Mills kit.

[shortliner]

Looks like Woodland Scenics do what you want http://www.ehobbies.com/wood203.html

This page might be useful http://www.rustystum...ducts.asp?id=32

Right down the bottom of this page http://www.bethlehem...k/ho_scale.html

and Dave at Ten Commandments might have them - also see Harburn Hobbies catalogue

But it may be easiest to make a sausage of Fimo or Milliput, cut short (about 1 cm) lengths and flatten them slightly

[bertiedog]

The building has been identified and I have arranged with the designer Carl Cornish of Cedar hill Designs to make an HO copy of the O scale structure "Mr Manns". The O scale is a craftsman kit, and very detailed, it should scale to H0 nicely, and fit the space next to the station, a bus storage garage plot these days in Stewartstown.

[bertiedog]

These are the shots of the O scale version of Mr Manns workshop by Carl Cornish of Cedar Hill Designs. The H0 scratchbuilt version will be similar in design and footprint to the main structure. It can fit the layout as shown on the plan, marked works yard. The yard water tower may be dropped to allow the Station to have railway water tower alongside the workshop rather than behind.

 

It may be moved to the other Yard position, but still looking for ideas for there at present

 

 

All photos above Copyright Carl Cornish Cedar Hill Designs, used with Permission.