RMweb Gold chriswright03 Posted June 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2015 From what I understand the three companies that have been providing technical support will do so no longer (for whatever reason) hence she will not be able to continue in the air. Engines are a problem because of the two they lunched a couple of years ago. They have to have two spare all the time and one of them is almost out of hours. Whilst she was over Scampton playing practicing last Friday some clever sole managed to snap this. https://www.polaroidblipfoto.com/entry/2053527825587113084 It is expected that as the year nears it's end the displays will become more exciting (radical) as they will not have to nurse her as much. Hope to see her at some stage again. Tomorrow I shall go to Waddington (currently closed) to watch the practice flight for the Royal flypast. Obviously the Lancaster will not be there and it seems a shame that the Vulcan has not been invited to take part. Huge shame and a massive trick missed to my mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted June 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2015 That is an awesome snap Chris thanks for sharing Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted June 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 8, 2015 Seeing that lovely photo made me look up on youtube to see if there is any footage of the display at Scampton. There certainly is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk9RCrAKCDY and it is well worth watching right to the end where there is a truly spectacular wingover/loop/roll. It is hard to tell which it is from the camera angle but it has bits of all three in there somewhere. There is probably a proper name for that move that somebody who knows more than I do can tell us...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It is going to be one of those sad moments in history when this 'giant bat' is silenced forever, never again to feel that vibration inside your chest as she passes overhead and hear the 'howl' as she climbs away.....I recall being ' a caddy' for a friend on the golf course at St Ouen's, when at very low the Vulcan came sweeping in from the west and passed scalping height overhead to land at Jersey Airport for the airshow back in the 1990's, the vortex wake, engine noise and huge 'V' shape will stay with me forever.....I know it is only an aircraft, and one must keep all things in context, but it is all too sad to contemplate it is to be retired.....will engine runs along the runway, keep at least her spirit alive, or as with Concorde, is she be to be 'dead'? Some of us that have reached a certain age.....must count ourselves fortunate to live through a tremendous transport history during the 1950's through to 1990's,,,,, with the seemingly bland and 'samey' range of trains, aircraft, ships and cars that are on view today, we have been able to view, catalogue and photography through a great age of shipping, vehicles, locomotives and aircraft, just think of what we have seen compared to today! That is one reason why I would urge and encourage all of us of whatever age, photograph and catalogue, but above all please enjoy moment while it is about! Regards guys Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffy Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Whilst living in Malta in the early 60's I attended Verdala Royal Naval School, and was blessed with seeing and hearing these taking off daily from Luqa airport. Luqa was about five miles away, but the site of that enormous white delta climbing almost vertically, the bright sun highlighting them, accompanied by a roar which was clearly audible even at that distance - some memories last forever. Also lucky enough to see a pair of Lightnings taking off at dusk under full reheat from Akrotiri during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974 - in response to an incursion from a couple of Turkish Phantoms over Nicosia. Once seen and heard/felt, never forgotten and I consider myself incredibly lucky to have witnessed both of these aviation masterpieces. Regards, Tiffy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chriswright03 Posted June 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2015 That is an awesome snap Chris thanks for sharing Phil Yes it is Phil but sadly not mine hence the link and not in post. In fact it could well end up om my desktop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted June 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2015 Many of us on here admire impressive railway engineering Our heritage is not confined to railways of course - we have a strong history in many other fields including aviation. A link to one of those comes to a close this year with the last flying season of Avro Vulcan XH558. Whatever you might think about the reasons for the building of the V bomber force the Vulcan is the last flying link to some impressive engineering heritage - get out and see her while you can! http://www.vulcantothesky.org/ I followed my own advice and took SWMBO to Throckmorton Air Show today. She wasn't impressed with the 3 and 3/4 hours to do the 25 miles to get there - traffic chaos - but it was worth it.... The legendary Vulcan howl at the end is certainly something else... Phil We were out for a drive around and saw it fly over Pershore, my wife recognised it. I live in Worcester and I didn't realise it was on, if I had, I know enough routes to avoid the traffic, worst case I would have taken the lanes from the north, then go via White Ladies Aston, then Peopleton and dropped onto tarmaced roads just north of Pinvin. Or dropped via Flyford and Bishampton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted June 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2015 I will have to go to RIAT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted June 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2015 Another problem is that only ex RAF engineers with Vulcan experience are allowed to do many of the technical jobs. The current team do not have the necessary certification to train up and approve new recruits and so they have to rely on people working on it are well beyond retirement age. Apparently, climbing up inside the nether regions of a Vulcan gets a bit tricky as you get older. That, plus the absence of spare engines and the airframe lifespan and the level of continuous funding that is needed to keep her flying have combined to make them say that enough is enough. Good job there are none of those restrictions on the Lancaster and the rest of the Memorial Flight. Would it make any difference if the Vulcan was transferred to the care of the RAF instead of the current ownership group ? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted June 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2015 Good job there are none of those restrictions on the Lancaster and the rest of the Memorial Flight. Would it make any difference if the Vulcan was transferred to the care of the RAF instead of the current ownership group ? I guess the different materials and more complex technology make a great deal of difference. Perhaps this is a bad analogy (I'm not technically proficient enough to know) but does it compare, in a little way, with keeping steam vs. diesel locomotives working, when (most) parts on the former can be (relatively) easily recreated if needs be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted June 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2015 The engineering problem is really simple to understand. In the good ol' days, aircraft were built as a frame of parts over which they placed a skin. In many cases during WW2 there is photographic evidence of large areas of this skin being forcibly removed, and yet the aircraft still continued to fly. So taking the BBMF Lancaster as an example: It was quite feasible a few years back to dismantle the aircraft and replace the main wing spar. Then rebuild the aircraft around it. After WW2, there was a jump to technology whereby the skin became a structural part of the aircraft, so it becomes much more difficult to inspect and repair, as you cannot just remove inspection panels, you have to 'de-skin' large parts of the aircraft so that you may very well lose structural integrity. Perhaps the best example is the attempted re winging of the Nimrod fleet. unbolted the wings, and couldn't get the hew ones to fit! This was probably the main reason the fleet was scrapped rather prematurely. You also have to look at the fact that the Vulcan airframe has now flown far more hours than it was ever envisaged. According to an ex RAF pilot I know, they would have probably got another season out of her if it hadn't been for all the taxiing she has done over the years! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted June 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2015 I guess the different materials and more complex technology make a great deal of difference. Perhaps this is a bad analogy (I'm not technically proficient enough to know) but does it compare, in a little way, with keeping steam vs. diesel locomotives working, when (most) parts on the former can be (relatively) easily recreated if needs be? That's not a bad analogy at all - but perhaps a Peak - built on a strong chassis with a robust body frame - vs a Western - Stressed skin construction on a lightweight tubular based base - would be a tad more accurate. Steam in flying probably equates to Leonardo Da Vinci! Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted June 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2015 We were out for a drive around and saw it fly over Pershore, my wife recognised it. I live in Worcester and I didn't realise it was on, if I had, I know enough routes to avoid the traffic, worst case I would have taken the lanes from the north, then go via White Ladies Aston, then Peopleton and dropped onto tarmaced roads just north of Pinvin. Or dropped via Flyford and Bishampton. Ah local knowledge is very useful - I managed to shorten the jam by an hour with a diversion via Charlton and Fladbury but that was the best I could do coming from Churchdown and not knowing how bad the traffic was until we hit the jams. Phil Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brack Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 A shame its going to retire, wonder if there's any chance of getting xm655 or xl426 flying again (they're both taxiable/ground operable)? 655 is the 3rd last Vulcan built and has much fewer flying hours than xm558. I know that the manufacturers won't zero hour the engines any more, are there any more spares or did 558 use them up? (I know they wrote off 2 by accident). Just wondering if you could take all the best bits off 558 and swap them into one of the other two? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Perhaps the best example is the attempted re winging of the Nimrod fleet. unbolted the wings, and couldn't get the hew ones to fit! This was probably the main reason the fleet was scrapped rather prematurely. Sorry but that's a flawed example as the problem fitting the new wings was nothing to do with the structural integrity. AIUI the problem was that despite being built on jigs each airframe was at a completely different standard so one wing design wouldn't fit all. However that wasn't an insurmountable problem and all the airframes were basically complete at the time of scrapping and the prototype aircraft had logged numerous flight hours. The main reason for cancellation was a lot more complex than that and was probably a mix of politics and inter-service horse trading so fortunately off-limits for this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 On present basis, I'd say transferring them to the RAF was not feasible. Considering what was done to those Nimrods, it's probably just as well.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted June 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10, 2015 On the subject of Great British Aircraft Of Our Time, are there any operating Harriers or Sea Harriers in the UK? After the GR9 withdrawal in 2011 (even now a suspect decision) the best were sold to the USN. There are statics left here, any which can operate? Dava Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The Harrier was a truly brilliant concept. I remember seeing the demonstration, landing in the coal yard North of Kings Cross (?). That said, it was a notoriously difficult aircraft to fly and maintain for any length of time. A colleague who had worked on them hated them, reckoning one Harrier the equivalent of three large helicopters in maintenance terms. It's also instructive that it long outlived its Soviet rival (the Yak-38) and the French and German versions were not progressed. So for me, it has a touch of Concorde about it; a highly specialised design, well suited to its intended role (carrier based support) but not really much use beyond that because simpler alternatives were available or the role was just too narrowly defined Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted June 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 10, 2015 Wasnt the initial design brief to operate from wooded clearings on main land Europe in a mobile battlefield role? Bsed on Falklands it would have acquiited itself well had the need arisenIIRC carrier role was afterthought but totally logical. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted June 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10, 2015 Ah local knowledge is very useful - I managed to shorten the jam by an hour with a diversion via Charlton and Fladbury but that was the best I could do coming from Churchdown and not knowing how bad the traffic was until we hit the jams. Phil Phil Even better when there are nearby green lanes and you have an off roader Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Wasnt the initial design brief to operate from wooded clearings on main land Europe in a mobile battlefield role? Bsed on Falklands it would have acquiited itself well had the need arisen IIRC carrier role was afterthought but totally logical. Phil If so then it would explain why no one else persevered with a comparable design - the advances in helicopter gunships meant there were cheaper ways of providing battlefield support, and the A10 had far more punch as a tank-buster. The carrier-borne role utilised the one thing the choppers couldn't do - speed - because the Harrier had to mix it with conventional jets. Rather like Concorde - no one ever built a faster transatlantic jet, but the internet plus improvements in civil flights changed the market and rendered it obsolete, it had ceased carrying commercial traffic (as opposed to expensive jollies) long before its final flight. One thing I DID find was a seriously scary video of a C130 landing on a U.S. carrier .... a long way into "clucking bell" territory... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brack Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The first harriers were in service 10 years before the first sea harriers. I had a book as a child, written by some retired general which explained the idea behind the need for a harrier - the thought was that in a conflict with the USSR in w Germany most conventional runways would be bombed and cratered, with landing strips an obvious target. The harrier squadrons would be dispersed to clearings or garages/supermarkets etc as makeshift hangars and able to continue operation in a ground attack role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseagull Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 It's typical that, for the second time, the Vulcan will be at Eastbourne Airbourne, and for the second time, it's FA Cup Extra Preliminary Round day, meaning I will be needed on Football Club duties. Kind of hope we get Eastbourne United away again to enable me to see both! - I missed it last time as we went to Molesey (and lost 8-1 ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 On the subject of Great British Aircraft Of Our Time, are there any operating Harriers or Sea Harriers in the UK? After the GR9 withdrawal in 2011 (even now a suspect decision) the best were sold to the USN. There are statics left here, any which can operate? Dava Some were in use earlier this year, at Culdrose. These had engine limiters to prevent them becoming airborne, and were part of a naval ground crew training exercise, to maintain their skills until the F-35 (which isn't winning over its critics in the USA) arrives. The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The Harrier was a truly brilliant concept. I remember seeing the demonstration, landing in the coal yard North of Kings Cross (?). Wasn't that the end of a transatlantic air race, possibly promoted by a newspaper? The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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