S&DJR 7F

[Ian J.]

I thought, as there has been a little consternation regarding the domination of the thread here by the 7F, that I'd start a thread for it

 

Now, I don't have any of these yet, but hopefully I'll have day job work in the new year that will provide funds to get at least one, if not two, into my locomotive roster. They are fine looking models indeed. I hope that Bachmann have designed their tooling to allow for the majority of the variations, particularly the original small boilered variants and also the large boiler versions of the later build. It would be a bit daft if they hadn't.

[Andy Y]

I've closed the other topic off for now.

[barrowroad]

Just to start things off then here are some photos from my blog

 

Barrow Roads 7f 53809

 

 

 

 

I thought, as there has been a little consternation regarding the domination of the thread here by the 7F, that I'd start a thread for it

 

Now, I don't have any of these yet, but hopefully I'll have day job work in the new year that will provide funds to get at least one, if not two, into my locomotive roster. They are fine looking models indeed. I hope that Bachmann have designed their tooling to allow for the majority of the variations, particularly the original small boilered variants and also the large boiler versions of the later build. It would be a bit daft if they hadn't.

[Jim49]

Re the question in the other thread about the size of Templecombe's turntable, my source for the information

is just something that I have read more than once that said it could not accept a 7F or larger.

Even if the table was 50 feet in diameter, with the wheelbase of the 7F being only a proverbial follicle's width

less, it would be a slow process getting the loco parked accurately on the deck without having a wheel flange

projecting over the rail end and fouling the approach rail. You would not need a shoe horn to get it right, more

like a set of feeler gauges,

 

If it is important to you Buffalo, I will have a dig through my S&D books & videos to find the source (I've had

worse jobs on a day like today) but it may take me a while.

 

Jim

[Kempenfelt]

Thanks chaps, It was about time the 7f had it's own thread!

 

Just to confirm the situation with 53806 and the early crest, 53806 was sent to the scrapyard (Cashmore's I think) in 1964 still sporting it's early crest, so definitely a good choice by Bachmann to cover both the earlyish BR period (once 86 had been reboilered) and the late up to 64.

 

I know we should count ourselfs lucky just to get the first 3 7f's but can anyone tell if the model has been designed to do any of the earlier/large boilered versions? If the boiler is designed as designed as a separate component then we maybe in luck! :-)

 

 

[Brinkly]

I had a good look at one through the window of the cabinet in a shop in Bristol this morning. It really is a cracking model the detail is wonderful. Does anyone know if there a suitable sound chip out there? The thought of a couple of dozen 4-wheeler wagons and a Jinty banking does sound very appealing! (I could be tempted with a 00 roundy-round now having seen Brian's Collaford layout on Wednesday!)

 

Sorry I digress!

 

Regards,

 

Nick

[buffalo]

...If it is important to you Buffalo, I will have a dig through my S&D books & videos to find the source (I've had

worse jobs on a day like today) but it may take me a while.

 

No problem, Jim. I was just trying to get to the bottom of the conflicting information. Having found the other measurements, like you, I doubt if it would fit unless the table was a bit longer than 50'. It might have been possible with the shorter tender but, as I understand it, the early batch all had the longer one, so the information I quoted from the D&D Files is almost certainly wrong. As you said, the Evercreech table, at 56', would have been fine.

 

Nick

[bike2steam]

No problem, Jim. I was just trying to get to the bottom of the conflicting information. Having found the other measurements, like you, I doubt if it would fit unless the table was a bit longer than 50'. It might have been possible with the shorter tender but, as I understand it, the early batch all had the longer one, so the information I quoted from the D&D Files is almost certainly wrong. As you said, the Evercreech table, at 56', would have been fine.

 

Nick

 

Many sheds with smaller turntables had a set of extension rails so as to accomodated locos with wheelbases a few feet bigger than the table diameter.

[Guest Belgian]

Following on from the question about the 7Fs not being able to use the Templecombe turntable I have often wondered about the flow of the coal traffic which was their principal work.

 

I appreciate that there were a number of collieries in the Radstock area which provided the traffic, but why was it worked southwards to the marshalling yards at Evercreech Junction, a station in the middle of nowhere? It must have been tripped or worked on from there. Did most of it go on to Templecombe and thus get disseminated via the Southern or did most go northwards to the Midland and beyond? The Southern wasn't renowned for its mineral traffic (an understatement) and I have seen no evidence of coal traffic from the S&DJR swelling Southern freights from Templecombe.

 

I would assume that the traffic mainly went northbound, but then there would be little originating traffic at Evercreech Junction, trains picking up wagons from the collieries as they went northwards, or actually originating from those collieries. Or again, was the traffic tripped south to Evercreech Junction and then worked back north as complete trains?

 

Therefore my overall query is: what was the main freight working traffic pattern for the 7Fs? (Also, we know they ran south from Templecombe on passenger trains, but did they ever work freight south from there as well?)

 

JE

[buffalo]

Many sheds with smaller turntables had a set of extension rails so as to accomodated locos with wheelbases a few feet bigger than the table diameter.

 

Yes, indeed, but none are visible in the photos of a 7F on the Templecombe table that I referred to earlier.

[JZ]

Picked one on Thursday. What happened to I will not buy one.

Fitted a decoder straight away and on Friday set about weathering it. Finished today. Must get around to giving it a proper run sometime, all it's had is a quick up and down on the programming track. Here it is sitting in the yard at Somercombe next to her semi-fictional* sister 53806. (i am aware the tender is off the rails in the second. Why do we never notice until later )

 

 

* semi-fictional in the sense that it is a large boiler loco with late crest and coal railed tender.

[buffalo]

Following on from the question about the 7Fs not being able to use the Templecombe turntable I have often wondered about the flow of the coal traffic which was their principal work.

 

Was it? There are plenty of photos of 7Fs on coal trains, but my impression is that most photos show very mixed trains, often with some coal, but interspersed with large numbers of vans or containers and not a few sheeted opens. Whether there was a tendency for photographers to capture the 'more interesting' mixed trains, I don't know. Certainly, there was coal from the Radstock area, mostly from Norton Hill and Writhlington in later years, and this appears to have gone both north and south with corresponding returning empties. Also noticeable on several pre-war photos are coal wagons from more northern sources, including the well-known and numerous Bolsover wagons.

 

In BR days there was northward coal traffic that went to Portishead power station, Stapleton Road gas works, and other destinations. This was sometimes taken from Bath to Westerleigh yard by 7Fs.

 

I hesitate to quote from The Somerset and Dorset Files again after the turntable issue, but there is an article sppended to that on the 7Fs by R.C. Riley (originally published in Railway World, Dec 1962) describing a footplate ride on 53810 in June 1962. This lists the load from Radstock to Bath as follows:

2 wagons peat, Ashcott-Bristol

1 container, Glastonbury-Bristol

5 vans empty, ex-Radstock repair works

1 wagon coal, Radstock Colliery to Radstock West (via Bath, Bristol and Wells!)

2 wagons coal, Writhlington Colliery -CEGB Portishead

14 wagons coal, Norton Hill Colliery-CEGB Portishead

 

As to coal travelling south of Evercreech, there were presumably some domestic and light industry supplies. Whether any went to Southampton for ship bunkering, again I don't know, but my impression is that most of this was supplied by other routes.

 

Nick

[Charlie]

Maybe I missed it in the Mammoth other thread, but have their been any rumblings of plans to release the 7f in either GWR or the original S&DJR colours? Or is that looking like being a special comission job again a la the NRM O4?

[Guest 47107]

Maybe I missed it in the Mammoth other thread, but have their been any rumblings of plans to release the 7f in either GWR or the original S&DJR colours? Or is that looking like being a special comission job again a la the NRM O4?

 

I suspect the S&DJR livery will appear as a Bachmann Collectors Club model next year. I doubt we will ever see a GWR version. I think the GWR loco you are thinking of is the 04. http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/pr1.php?id=272

[phil-b259]

Maybe I missed it in the Mammoth other thread, but have their been any rumblings of plans to release the 7f in either GWR or the original S&DJR colours? Or is that looking like being a special comission job again a la the NRM O4?

 

IIRC the current tooling needs to be altered slightly before anything other than BR liveries can be producded as the origional boilers were slightly smaller. Thus as it stands if a S&DJR liveried loco were to be producded it could only be marketed as a preservation era machine (i.e. no. 88), which carries a non authentic livery anyway - Freight engines were black not prussan blue.

 

That said I'm sure there would be demand for an 'as built' SDJR or LMS liveried machine, especially given the interest in the Great Central 04. One can only hope that Bachmann consider it for their 2011 programme.

[buffalo]

We must have used a lot of invisible ink in the other thread

[bike2steam]

Yes, indeed, but none are visible in the photos of a 7F on the Templecombe table that I referred to earlier.

 

That does indeed seem to be the case, as per the comment in the Wild Swan series on LMS engine sheds.

As 'phil-b259' sez it'd be nice to see in original S&D livery, it may look good - but please not blue.

And as far as 'Dorset Central' area is concerned, most pics of 7F's are on mixed freights.

[buffalo]

...* semi-fictional in the sense that it is a large boiler loco with late crest and coal railed tender.

 

What's the origin of that one, JZ? Is it a Gibson kit? I managed to avoid the temptation to order one when Colin re-introduced them, but never got around to finding out which boiler type they had.

[JZ]

What's the origin of that one, JZ? Is it a Gibson kit? I managed to avoid the temptation to order one when Colin re-introduced them, but never got around to finding out which boiler type they had.

Golden Arrow resin body on a Hornby 8F chassis. The tender is a Comet, originally destined for a loco drive 4F conversion which I have yet to do. Apart from the smokebox door being the wrong pattern, I have a correct one on the way from Alan Gibson, it stands up pretty well against the Bachmann version.

[Poor Old Bruce]

IIRC the current tooling needs to be altered slightly before anything other than BR liveries can be producded as the origional boilers were slightly smaller. Thus as it stands if a S&DJR liveried loco were to be producded it could only be marketed as a preservation era machine (i.e. no. 88), which carries a non authentic livery anyway - Freight engines were black not prussan blue.

 

That said I'm sure there would be demand for an 'as built' SDJR or LMS liveried machine, especially given the interest in the Great Central 04. One can only hope that Bachmann consider it for their 2011 programme.

There is scope for locos in LMS livery. The then 9679 and 9680 (later 13809/10) carried this livery with small boilers from 1930 so LMS is OK but SDJR looks doubtful unless you want to convert to right-hand drive and build a Deeley tender.

 

In your parallel universe, of course, there is nothing to stop your LMS building more locos for Midland line working instead of building all those Austin 7s. Certainly my 2-8-0 will find itself well employed around my Derbyshire mineral branch line.

[bike2steam]

There is scope for locos in LMS livery. The then 9679 and 9680 (later 13809/10) carried this livery with small boilers from 1930 so LMS is OK but SDJR looks doubtful unless you want to convert to right-hand drive and build a Deeley tender.

 

In your parallel universe, of course, there is nothing to stop your LMS building more locos for Midland line working instead of building all those Austin 7s. Certainly my 2-8-0 will find itself well employed around my Derbyshire mineral branch line.

 

A Deeley tender ??? Surely Fowler with tender cab. R/h drive, no problem. Modeller's licence, locos had to be run in after all that work at Derby, especially as it was a good journey home.

[Captain Kernow]

A Deeley tender ??? Surely Fowler with tender cab.

Didn't/doesn't 53808 currently have a partial Deeley tender (or have I got that wrong - I've just decided to type this without getting up to check in books.... ).

 

I've not got one yet to accompany 53804 (Gibson), but I have one on order with Dave in the Exeter shop, only last time I went in, they hadn't arrived, but I can see that it may yet be possible for one to turn up at Kernow Towers prior to Christmas, snow permitting....

 

I have seen a photo of a 7F in the sidings at Templecombe station, having worked a freight to the Upper Yard, and I doubt that they would have seen much use to and from Templecombe on a regular basis, if wasn't possible to turn them there.

 

Most of the coal from the Radstock coalfield latterly seems to have gone to Portishead Power station, although I believe they also served Bath Gas works (and Stapleton Road gas works has also been mentioned). Coal traffic to the south coast would probably have been for gas works in that area.

 

As a slight aside, something I've seen in the latest Jeffrey Grayer book Sabotaged & Defeated Revisited, is that the last year or so of Writhlington Colliery operation featured modern HAA hopper type wagons, rather than the traditional 16t minerals. It was fascinating to see rakes of those being hauled away from the colliery by the inevitable 08....

[coachmann]

.....there is nothing to stop your LMS building more locos for Midland line working instead of building all those Austin 7s. Certainly my 2-8-0 will find itself well employed around my Derbyshire mineral branch line.

Indeed. And S&DJR stands for Stockport & Diggle Junction Railway...

[bike2steam]

Didn't/doesn't 53808 currently have a partial Deeley tender (or have I got that wrong - I've just decided to type this without getting up to check in books.... ).

 

 

Apologies, yes, I was thinking Johnson, not Deeley, the tender is referred to as 'adapted Deeley', after checking in the 'library'.

[Captain Kernow]

OK, now that this wonderful model is out, how many of you feel inspired to build a Somerset & Dorset layout? There's virtually no main-stream S&D motive power that you can't get R-T-R now, so let's hope that this brings on some more layout ideas, much like the recent run of Hornby R-T-R Southern locos have inspired more Southern layouts...