HST cad/cam up now

[steam-driven boy]

Hi again,

i wonder how many carriages they'll do to go with them - hopefully all of them, though i don't know if any of them have been modified in any way externally oweing to their use by network rail?

 

havn't they still got to bring out EWS livery MK3's for their corporate train to go with the DVT and 67029?

Or maybe that's not happening now

While you'd think Dapol would want to sell their own Mk3's I don't recall seeing a commitment to produce the related coaches for the EWS Company Train, both Amsies and Electra Railway Graphics produce vinyls for the BachFarish Mk3's - a route I'd actively considered for the whole Network Rail train, and I am embarrassed to admit being no further along with my EWS vinyls yet I'm also awaiting an announcement on the remaining Pretendolino Mk3's.

 

Gosh, the NR version will be irresistable! Oh well, Dapol, you have got another purchase out of me despite my previous experiences, better make sure its good!

You do seem to have been inflicted unfairly with all my usual bad luck David (no, I don't want it back ), tempting fate I know with saying this but I've yet to experience problems with my Dapol purchases and I certainly wish better fortune for you

Indeed, think I'll having a bit of that! Hope they fit the correct type light clusters though (2 lights, not 3 - the CAD shows it fitted with the MML style revised clusters)

 

Unfortunately they quite a bit removed from standard RTR coaches, including plated windows and fitting a pantograph, though there is enough variation in shade that resprayed coaches could be mixed in ok

I would have been happy enough with the afore-mention vinyls, but their own modified Mk3's would make me happier

 

Regards, Gerry.

[woodenhead]

I was beginning to wonder if I'd pre-ordered an APT not a HST as I thought like the real thing it was never going to be produced .

 

I wonder how long 'soon' is, hopefully not a Farish one as I've got Dapol MKIII coaches sat around awaiting traction.

[n-gauge]

I don't know whether this posting should be here or in the DCC sound section, but as this model is not yet out and it is specifically about the HST i've added it here.

 

Having just converted a Dapol 156 to DCC sound (Loksound micro) I have been looking round to see which other N gauge locos / units offer easy conversion to sound. The HST pages on the Dapol website says that "The non powered unit will be DCC Ready for the working lights, but provision is being made for a DCC sound speaker in the chassis for those that would require this feature." from comments made by Nigel Cliffe and now from my own experience of putting the Loksound in the non-powered 156 unit, the decoder gets confused as there isn't a load across the motor output, so the sound gets out of sync with starting and stopping.

 

So, to get to the point, is it a good idea to have the dummy unit (which will be a long way from the driven one) having space for the speaker? Or an I missing something here (sensible replies only!)

[Steven B]

from my own experience of putting the Loksound in the non-powered 156 unit, the decoder gets confused as there isn't a load across the motor output, so the sound gets out of sync with starting and stopping.

 

So, to get to the point, is it a good idea to have the dummy unit (which will be a long way from the driven one) having space for the speaker? Or an I missing something here (sensible replies only!)

 

Surely it's better to have space for a decoder and speaker and have to worry about sound getting out of sync than having to hack a model about to make space and still have to worry about the sound getting out of sync.

 

Would putting a suitably resistor inplace of the motor on the dummy unit reduce the chances of the sound in the dummy power car going out of sync?

 

It could also be that there will be space for a sound decoder and speaker in the motorised HST power car. Having sound at both ends would be a fun, if expensive project!

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

[Revolution Ben]

Painted samples of the HST bodies on show today at the N Gauge International Show.

 

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[woodenhead]

Getting closer, out for Christmas??

[TomE]

Looks like Dapol have pretty much nailed this one! Looks fantastic. Slight reservations about the join around the front valance but I guess this is a pre-production shot so will reserve judgement for the finished models.

 

EMT please though Dapol!!

 

Thanks again Ben.

 

Tom.

[Dr Al]

Slight reservations about the join around the front valance but I guess this is a pre-production shot so will reserve judgement for the finished models.

 

It's pretty horrid actually - I find my eye drawn straight to it on the blue one, the red is not so bad.

 

Think my Farish ones shall soldier on until I see a production one in the flesh and see if there's a need for that to be unclippable (or whether it could be fillered and part resprayed to hide it).

 

Cheers,

Alan

[43179]

It's pretty horrid actually - I find my eye drawn straight to it on the blue one, the red is not so bad.

 

 

 

 

that join on the nose is a bit of a shocker... but what stands out in the photo more to me is the drivers side window appears the wrong shape - the angled bit of said window doesnt follow the slope of the nose - whatever angle you look at it - it should always run parallel to the edge of the windscreen. its either not steep enough (most likely)- or the whole nose isnt pitched correctly (surely not!? ) If this window isn't the right shape then it could cause a problem in applying Intercity swallow livery - as the yellow warning panel registers with a black triangle projecting from the cabside window- Have a feeling when we see bodyshells appear it may be beyond the point of no return:unsure:

 

TFN

 

Jon

[lucazone]

Am I right to assume the paint scheme and nose style combination are purely for testing purposes? The enclosed headlight clusters are a modern modification. Certainly haven't seen any reference placing those two details together.

[frobisher]

Certainly haven't seen any reference placing those two details together.

 

Given the guard's window is in original condition as well it's even more unlikely.

[lucazone]

Given the guard's window is in original condition as well it's even more unlikely.

So hang on, the Guards window is correct for the paint scheme used? but the nose isnt? That sounds bad now.

 

Looking at the Dapol post HERE"]http://www.Dapol.co....&Itemid=65]HERE[/url] Dapol seem to have a configuration where they can swap out the Guards window panel, and the Cab module to provide for various combinations and arrangements. Am I right therefore in concluding they have used the wrong cab module and colour scheme combination?

 

Do Dapol know this?

 

Regards

[Steadfast]

The cooler group is the type fitted during the FGW MTU refurbs too - some did have this previously, but certainly none in BR blue.

The impression I got from chatting to the guy on the stand is that it was an early test shot, and the combination of details isn't neccesarily representative of the finished item

I did hear word of price from a couple of traders though - somewhere in the region of £170 was mooted for power car, dummy and 2 mk3s

cheers

 

jo

[PaulCheffus]

So hang on, the Guards window is correct for the paint scheme used? but the nose isnt? That sounds bad now.

 

Looking at the Dapol post HERE"]http://www.Dapol.co....&Itemid=65]HERE[/url] Dapol seem to have a configuration where they can swap out the Guards window panel, and the Cab module to provide for various combinations and arrangements. Am I right therefore in concluding they have used the wrong cab module and colour scheme combination?

 

Do Dapol know this?

 

Regards

 

Hi

 

Now might be a good time to mention the issues you see with the HST before its too late. Dapol have been very good in the past correcting errors when they have been pointed out.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[TomE]

What we could be seeing are just test samples for the printing process, but maybe DapolDave could confirm this?

 

Jon, I hadn't noticed that before you mentioned it, but it may just be the camera angle. The yellow on the Virgin sample on display looked to be parallel to both the edge of the windscreen and the angled edge of the cabside window without being misshapen in anyway.

 

Tom.

[43179]

Hi

 

Now might be a good time to mention the issues you see with the HST before its too late. Dapol have been very good in the past correcting errors when they have been pointed out.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

I did mention and sent several emails to Dapol about errors with the shape of the class 67 cab roof , before and after pre production models had been shown - but didnt get any feedback.

 

In the case of the HST ........ having looked at the picture long and hard - and having spent an unhealthy amount of time looking at the real things B) - plus all the cad drawings Dapol have published - I'm almost certain the bigest issue with the model , aside from the combination of detail differences displayed on the sample bodyshells is that the cab/nose section appears to be too long - as though its been streached - as a result and the angle of the nose/windscreen is not steep enough - It looks very wierd to me.

If so - id imagine a new bodyshell tooling would be required (unless the tooling separates around the cab).

 

tfn

 

jon

[43179]

Hope Ben doesnt mine me butchering his photo -

 

ive just projected a line from the cabside window - this line should run parallel to the slope of the nose - the angle at which the photo is taken will not affect this relationship. If you follow this line down towards the light clusters - it creates the boundary of the warning panel on the 'Swallow' Livery.... However - as stated in my previous post I think theres a greater error in the whole cabfront profile itself. There appears to be a very shallow curve in the windscreen - judging by the lower edge - which isnt on the real things.

Afraid I cant help nit picking when it comes to power cars - sad isn't it!

 

HTH

 

 

 

Jon

[DapolDave]

Hi Jon,

 

i might be able to help with the queries regarding the HST power cars, windows, noses etc.

 

i'll list them here with my asnwers, and hope you dont think i'm throwing my toys out of my pram, merely explaining and trying to clarify.

 

1) The Nose. Looking at the cad/cam and the plans of the real thing, ours seems fine. I thought it looked a trifle long but it seems about right when in the hand.

 

2) The ugly seam along the valance. Will NOT appear on the production models

 

3) The cab side window. This is parallel to the slope of the front as per the prototype.

 

4) The Cab front window curve. This is in real life straight and on our pre-production doesnt look it, but trust me here it will be straight.

 

5) Lights. These will be prototypical to each livery variant we do. some 3 begine glass, some 3 separate, some 2.

 

6) Guards compartment window. This will be there on some models and some will not have it.

 

Please remember that the models shown were only pre-production ones and not indicative of the real thing, finer detail needs adding , the paint job on the models shown was far from accurate. They were just for show.

 

Not ideal going into a show with models in this format i'm afraid, but i felt it better to have something rather than nothing at all. Ironically ModelRail should have handed back our DVT fitted version on the modrning of the show, plus 2 normal ones but forgot until the end of play sunday, or else you could have picked them up and handled them

 

I'm surprised no one noticed the lack of exhaust deflector on one or that there are 2 different types of radiator shoulder grille:P lol

 

so anyway, please bear with us, pre-production and all that.

 

I'm off to lie down in a dark room.

cheers

Dave

 

Dapol Ltd

[TomE]

Hi Dave.

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond to the questions raised in this thread. It's good to hear that the concerns raised here will be addressed before release.

 

From what I saw at the N gauge show, it's certainly looking like a great model and I think I may have to pick up a Virgin example!

 

Tom

[Dr Al]

2) The ugly seam along the valance. Will NOT appear on the production models

 

Excellent! You've just regained a sale there from me!

 

As an aside, if it runs as well as your excellent little 86s I'll be very happy and willing to swap my Farish HSTs!

 

Cheers,

Alan

[lucazone]

Please remember that the models shown were only pre-production ones and not indicative of the real thing, finer detail needs adding , the paint job on the models shown was far from accurate. They were just for show.

Hi Dave,

 

Thanks for the official input. Its good to know that assumptions were correct on the combinations of variable components. Congratulations of the development of such an interchangeable and thus versatile model.

 

Regards

Adam

 

 

 

[PaulCheffus]

 

I'm surprised no one noticed the lack of exhaust deflector on one or that there are 2 different types of radiator shoulder grille:P lol

 

Hi

 

I was hoping that you were going to do the earlier version without the exhaust deflectors.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Dave,

 

Let me apologise on behalf of Model Rail. Editor Ben Jones - who had planned to be there both days - suffered torn ligaments on the Thursday before the show, and was unable to attend. Chris Leigh manned the Model Rail sponsor's stand on Saturday (with some very brief help from me and my daughter!) but I guess Ben J had been unable to get the models to Chris in time.

 

A pity though.

 

Incidentally, I thought the underframe and bogies on the Virgin powercar looked sensational!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[TomE]

There is a good pic showing an unpainted, buffered example on its chassis on Model Rail's Facebook page:

 

 

Tom

[Revolution Mike]

 

Hmmm, that picture does appear to highlight the problem with the cab window not being parallel with the slope.