tractor_37260 Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Apparently some have had issues with Rail Tech Transfers when over coated with enamel/spirit varnishes, they can shrivel up/distort/disappear................. My plan is to either pre-coat the transfer area with 2 coats Klear - or make use of the polished area left after using T-Cut to remove the factory details. After applying the Rail Tech numbers etc, 1 or 2 coats of Klear over them to seal. Question is, can I then use enamel varnish over the whole model without it affecting the transfer area ? I'm aware acrylic varnish would go on fine, but prefer using enamel if possible. TIA Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Dyson (onslaught832) Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I have tried ename/thinned enamel & now more rexently with Testors Dulcote all with dodgy results .....I have never had any problems with Fox, Model Master, HMRS or any other transfers! What does actually work with Railtec please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I'm alarmed to here your news Phill. I have just sprayed two coats of Railmatch enamel gloss over Railtec transfers, both coats were kept quite light so I don't know whether I have been lucky or that this has helped. I shall be keeping a keen eye on here as I have a class 40 with Railtec transfers that I intend to gloss spray next week. ... thinking as I type, I know that Brian Daniels has used Railtec and then gloss coated with (I believe) Ronseal varnish!!! Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted April 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 22, 2016 Apparently some have had issues with Rail Tech Transfers when over coated with enamel/spirit varnishes, they can shrivel up/distort/disappear................. My plan is to either pre-coat the transfer area with 2 coats Klear - or make use of the polished area left after using T-Cut to remove the factory details. After applying the Rail Tech numbers etc, 1 or 2 coats of Klear over them to seal. Question is, can I then use enamel varnish over the whole model without it affecting the transfer area ? I'm aware acrylic varnish would go on fine, but prefer using enamel if possible. TIA Ken I've never had any issues with Klear. Either it reacting to the base coat or to any other coating over the Klear. Cheers Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I've never had any issues with Klear. Either it reacting to the base coat or to any other coating over the Klear. Cheers Mick Hi Mick, Can you spray gloss enamel over the top of Klear though?? Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railtec-models Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 The recommendation will always be to build up light coats via spray form as opposed to flooding the transfer with a large dollop via a brush. We've done a lot of testing with various forms of varnish over the years (as have our customers!) to come to this somewhat logical conclusion. Acrylics tend to be safest though as a number of modellers on the forum can vouch for, there are a number of enamels which work equally well. It seems that much of the result comes down to perhaps more how the individual chooses to apply the varnish as much as the flavour of varnish itself. Add in to the mix the paint and anything else on the model plus any other foreign variables involving the vessel and tool used to apply the varnish, and the plot begins to thicken further and more tricky to cater for. As such, it would be plain negligent to guarantee that every combination produces the same result. Just the same as if you gave the exact same car to 100 people and asked them to drive the same A to B: few would turn out the same journey. It's really odd to hear that there would be any adverse results with Testors Dullcote. It was a good couple of years ago now that we were sat with Waterman who was using exactly this on our transfers on his own models (and does so to this day) - and it went on a treat, to the extent that it's what we ourselves now use exclusively. Flattens everything down to a nice matte finish too, so there really must be a corner case of something odd going on there if anyone has had an issue with this method. In 7+ years of trading now I can count on one hand the number of reports we've had where anything has gone wrong, and I think in every instance it hasn't been reproducible in-house. Furthermore, reports are that since we changed transfer medium a few months ago (or rather, it was changed on us as the paper manufacturer also happens to produce the medium for all UK stamps etc so it's not like we have a great deal of say), not only does it make the white print easier to see but makes them even more resilient. As we always go to lengths to publicise, in the unlikely event that anyone has any issues then we maintain an open communication channel for them to reach out to us and let us know. It's that simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Andy7 Posted April 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 22, 2016 Never had any issues with any transfers. Only thing worth mentioning is an issue my brother had which was down to the transfer not being adhered properly to the loco body. I would say this is the issue most people have with transfers peeling/shrivelling etc. On this note ensure that the surface you are applying to is very shiny (ie gloss varnished). Hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted April 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 22, 2016 Hi Mick, Can you spray gloss enamel over the top of Klear though?? Cheers Lee I've sprayed enamel varnish over Klear without any problems. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Furthermore, reports are that since we changed transfer medium a few months ago (or rather, it was changed on us as the paper manufacturer also happens to produce the medium for all UK stamps etc so it's not like we have a great deal of say), not only does it make the white print easier to see but makes them even more resilient. As we always go to lengths to publicise, in the unlikely event that anyone has any issues then we maintain an open communication channel for them to reach out to us and let us know. It's that simple. Hi Steve, Nice to see you chipping in here!! I wonder if my transfers (being ordered only a month or so ago) are of this variety and hence no problems???? Everything went so well with them and I have had no issues at all. Applying your decals was soooooooo easy!!!! Spraying Railmatch gloss varnish did not cause any issues with two light coatings. I've sprayed enamel varnish over Klear without any problems. Cheers, Mick Hi Mick, Thanks for that... very helpful to know and I shall perhaps try this method one day Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railtec-models Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Hi Steve, Nice to see you chipping in here!! I wonder if my transfers (being ordered only a month or so ago) are of this variety and hence no problems???? Everything went so well with them and I have had no issues at all. Applying your decals was soooooooo easy!!!! Spraying Railmatch gloss varnish did not cause any issues with two light coatings. Hi Lee, we try to keep a tight eye on all comms as not all feedback comes directly to us even though every effort is made to invite candid feedback so we can continue to be the best we can be. Like many small businesses, we started out as modellers like everyone here, with a passion and an idea which grew out of thin air, and literally started Railtec way back when from a dining room table (needless to say it's grown since then!). So, every bit of feedback is important for such a niche service as this. I've just personally checked the batch of your transfers and that was on the earlier paper. Not that it makes any difference - the only difference as mentioned is that the paper is slightly darker and therefore makes the white print easier to see. Let's face it, anything which helps our eyes no matter what our age is only going to be a good thing. (The glue is arguably that bit stronger and therefore takes slightly longer to separate but it's a negligible price to pay). I think what it simply comes down to is the method that you've used - like 99%+ of modellers it gets you the results you're looking for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Like many small businesses, we started out as modellers like everyone here, with a passion and an idea which grew out of thin air, and literally started Railtec way back when from a dining room table (needless to say it's grown since then!). So, every bit of feedback is important for such a niche service as this. Hi Steve, Thanks for that input it is valued by many I am sure and certainly backs up my experience with Railtec transfers..... right would you now go back to your dining room table and design those AWS receiver decals for me, I'm getting desperate Many thanks for your help and info here I'm sure many will appreciate it. Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Dyson (onslaught832) Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I will try using Johnsons Klear on the surface beforehand with my remaining Railtech transfers if it will make any difference? The last time I tried brush painted enamel thinned & un- thinned it destroyed some of the Railtech transfers......is brush painting over transfers an issue with Railtech? (it has never been a problem with other waterslides or for that matter any other types though) This time with custom made Railtech I sprayed Testors Dullcote (aerosol) but on handling one of my Motorail Flats part of a transfer came away in my hand. Maybe it's just me? , but I have used lots of other makes in Waterslide Pressfix & Methfix & never had an issue with any other type. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I will try using Johnsons Klear on the surface beforehand with my remaining Railtech transfers if it will make any difference? The last time I tried brush painted enamel thinned & un- thinned it destroyed some of the Railtech transfers......is brush painting over transfers an issue with Railtech? (it has never been a problem with other waterslides or for that matter any other types though) This time with custom made Railtech I sprayed Testors Dullcote (aerosol) but on handling one of my Motorail Flats part of a transfer came away in my hand. Maybe it's just me? , but I have used lots of other makes in Waterslide Pressfix & Methfix & never had an issue with any other type. Hi Phill, I've never brush painted varnish on top of decals... so sorry I cannot help with that. I have sprayed and that was ok. I wish I could provide a comparison with the other decals too but as I have only used Railtec I'm not able to I'm afraid. I have a dummy loco body arriving this week to try different stuff like this so I will give Testors a go and let you know how I get on (week after next ) Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Pike Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 I use Precision's pre thinned enamel varnish's and have had no issues at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railtec-models Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Hi Steve, Thanks for that input it is valued by many I am sure and certainly backs up my experience with Railtec transfers..... right would you now go back to your dining room table and design those AWS receiver decals for me, I'm getting desperate Many thanks for your help and info here I'm sure many will appreciate it. Cheers Lee That dining room table has long since gone Lee! The office is now a technological fortress complete with a valium lick on the wall for those exasperating moments. AWS etc, like a plethora of other projects, are in design. They will come . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted April 23, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2016 Hi For any custom transfers I have had printed and the RailTec ones I've always brush painted klear over them first before applying Testors Dullcote or Humbrol enamel and not had a problem. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 My second attempt at spraying Railmatch enamel over Railtech transfers was again successful. No distorting or damaging the decals at all and to be honest I probably put quite a heavy spray on the loco too to say that I had just applied decals. I'm midway through re-spraying a loco body from scratch that will act as my test bed for weathering. As soon as I have put a few unwanted decals on it I shall spray one lot with Testors, brush coat one lot with Klear and another will be gloss sprayed. As soon as I have any results to show I shall post here but I can honestly say that so far I have had no problems with the Railtech transfers. Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Here you go, I finally got my spare loco body sprayed and decals added. Decals are from Railtech that are just surplus to requirements. The method: The loco has had a coat of Railmatch primer, two coats of yellow/ blue and one coat of Railmatch gloss varnish before the decals were applied. Not the best spray job so no laughing or sniggering there at the back!! The decals were allowed to dry for 24hours after an application of Micro Sol. Pic 1: decals over painted in Klear with a brush Pic 2: decals over painted in Railmatch Gloss varnish with a brush Pic 3: decals sprayed over with Testors Dullcote Pic 4: no paint or varnish as these will just be over sprayed with Railmatch Gloss varnish (unless anyone here has a test they would like) The results: 1. Klear Brushed 2. Railmatch Gloss Varnish Brushed 3. Testors Dullcote sprayed(from aerosol can) 4. No top Coat None of the pictures show any damage, flaking or peeling of the decals and to be honest I was quite brutal with the application of the covering medium to try to provoke a response once I had an initial coating on. But, nothing at all, no damage. The last photo where there is no 'top coat' I intend to spray a couple of coats of Railmatch gloss vanish..... so far on my builds I have not had any problems with spraying (heavy coats or otherwise) directly on top of the Railtech decals. The Conclusion: I'll let you make your own minds up. Having looked at the photos now I need to re-think my base coat of varnish to which I add the decals as it would seem I am not getting a nice smooth coat for the decal application.... hence the silvering. I'm not sponsored or connected in anyway to Railtech and this little experiment was really in response to a couple of problems that fellow colleagues experienced with their builds. It also helped me learn a little about masking locos for future projects I hope this is of use to some here that may be wondering what to apply over the Railtech decals. Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railtec-models Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Thanks Lee for taking the time to share your expertise with such descriptive and close-up detail of the series of tests. The account really scrutinises the different techniques and products, and will hopefully help be an example to the wider community of the results that can be achieved. I would say the tests you've made cover some of the more typical processes that so many of our customers use with the same excellent results despite being under harsh lighting. Logic should tell us that the same or very similar results should be achievable by everyone if using any of those same processes. PS the bits you're waiting for are in design! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenc Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Hi I use Railmatch acrylics gloss varnish and brush painted with no problems to railtec transfers. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I had a minor problem when using some Res 47 number sets and they reacted badly to thinned Humbrol matt varnish with Humbrol thinners. Second go I used Vallejo acrylic matt varnish and their thinners and they sealed the numbers in nicely and no further problems. I think the first go I just tried to use the shiny patch left behind from the removal of the original Bachmann numbers and the second time I laid a fresh patch of Vallejo gloss varnish down first left 24 hours then tried again with the numbers successfully. Otherwise a satisfied Railtec customer. HTH Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 When using Railtec I have applied them over Klear and then sealed them with another coat of Klear. I then give the whole lot a blast of Testors Dullcote. Touch-wood I have never had any problems so far. Below are a couple of coaches I have done using Railtec transfers for the branding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railtec-models Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Heya Lee, I'm wondering if the last time that was tried was on the earlier grade paper. HealeyMills Lee sprayed (and I think as part of his tests, even brushed) Railmatch enamel gloss without any issues, whilst Richard uses pre-thinned Precision enamels also without issue. We did change paper quite a while ago (or rather, it was changed on us as the paper manufacturer also happens to produce the medium for all UK stamps etc so it's not like we have a great deal of say), not only does it make the white print easier to see but makes them even more resilient. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Evening Steve. I'll give the next batch another test to see what happens. Hi Lee, I have sprayed (heavy coats of) Railmatch Gloss over Railtech decals on two locos now... you've seen the results and there has been no deformation whatsoever. I conducted a bit of a test with a loco body (see earlier in this thread) and I have to admit I was quite very brutal when I brushed several media over the decals to even try to get them to deform, with no result. I did this in response to Ken and Phils queries regarding these decals... not because I'm in anyway connected to Railtech, but because I want a 100% reliable way of covering the decals without issue myself. It's good people are sharing their modelling problems with decals etc, but to date, in my limited experience, I've had none. Cheers Lee PS... while you're replying to this Lee, could you tell me how to get the black background to headcodes with white marker dots on a central heacode and/ or splitbox please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeighties Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Hi Lee, I have sprayed (heavy coats of) Railmatch Gloss over Railtech decals on two locos now... you've seen the results and there has been no deformation whatsoever. I conducted a bit of a test with a loco body (see earlier in this thread) and I have to admit I was quite very brutal when I brushed several media over the decals to even try to get them to deform, with no result. I did this in response to Ken and Phils queries regarding these decals... not because I'm in anyway connected to Railtech, but because I want a 100% reliable way of covering the decals without issue myself. It's good people are sharing their modelling problems with decals etc, but to date, in my limited experience, I've had none. Cheers Lee PS... while you're replying to this Lee, could you tell me how to get the black background to headcodes with white marker dots on a central heacode and/ or splitbox please? Hi Lee. I apply a round marker dot transfer to the rear of the headcode panel, and then carefully paint around it, and the rest of the panel black. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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