Peco Electrofrog Code 100 Small Radius point Wiring

[BG John]

I've just bought a new Peco SL-E97 Small Radius Y Turnout. The instructions on the back for switching the frog independently are the standard ones about cutting the two wires, but the point doesn't have them, or the insulated break on the switch rails that longer turnouts have.

 

I've also got an old one I bought damaged on eBay that I've fixed up, and that's almost the same. I'm inclined to not bother using a separate switch on the new one, but I need to on the repaired one, as it doesn't have any decent contacts, or the locking mechanism.

 

How are they supposed to be wired?

[Grovenor]

Try a search, this exact issue was discussed at length about a month ago.

Regards

[michaelp]

In the search box select Google search and type in 'electrofrog y point wiring'

 

 

 

Michael

[amdaley]

I've just bought a new Peco SL-E97 Small Radius Y Turnout. The instructions on the back for switching the frog independently are the standard ones about cutting the two wires, but the point doesn't have them, or the insulated break on the switch rails that longer turnouts have.

 

I've also got an old one I bought damaged on eBay that I've fixed up, and that's almost the same. I'm inclined to not bother using a separate switch on the new one, but I need to on the repaired one, as it doesn't have any decent contacts, or the locking mechanism.

 

How are they supposed to be wired?

 

Hi John.

Here's a couple of photos which may explain what's needed. One photo of the point front & one of the point back.

Hope it helps.

 

 

[edcayton]

Are we seriously saying that the only way to wire a Peco point is to start cutting rails? Has anybody asked Peco?

 

Ed

[BG John]

Accor

 

Are we seriously saying that the only way to wire a Peco point is to start cutting rails? Has anybody asked Peco?

 

Ed

According to the other topics I was sent off to look for, Peco have admitted that they included the wrong instructions, but have no plans to change them. They also said that all you need to do is add a wire to the frog and connect it to the common on an external switch, and add a wire from each stock rail. However, that seems to risk shorting when one switch rail is the opposite polarity to the adjoining stock rail, and also if the switch doesn't change over in the centre position rather than before or after the point has switched.

 

I think I'm going to leave the new one as it is. I doubt if it will fail considering the amount of use it will have. The other points are operated by wire in tube connected to a slide switch, and I'm not sure at what point the switch changes over.

 

I'm not sure what to do with the old one yet. Maybe I'll have to cut it.

[BG John]

Thanks for the help. Having thought about it, I've decided to leave the new one as it is. I doubt if it will fail with the amount of use it's likely to get, and if it does it won't be a major problem to lift it and make alterations to fix it. It will save a bit of wiring too. I also decided to forget the old one I repaired, and persuade the moths in my wallet to let me buy another new one, so that will be laid as it is too. Thanks to the lightening delivery service from Track Shack, the second one arrived this morning, so I can get on with the layout, rather than mess about cutting rails etc.

[Free At Last]

On the back of my latest Peco turnout it says "There is no need to modify any PECO turnout for DCC use"

It shows you how to wire the turnout using insulated rail joiners, where to place the feeds and does not require the frog to be independently switched.

There is a member on this forum who has an exhibition layout that does not use modified points and never has any problems.

 

I do prefer to modify them and switch the frog independently.

[BG John]

On the back of my latest Peco turnout it says "There is no need to modify any PECO turnout for DCC use"

It shows you how to wire the turnout using insulated rail joiners, where to place the feeds and does not require the frog to be independently switched.

There is a member on this forum who has an exhibition layout that does not use modified points and never has any problems.

 

I do prefer to modify them and switch the frog independently.

I'm not using DCC. I just like to use more reliable switches!

[Jeff Smith]

As has been mentioned this problem was discussed a while ago and the solution posted above by amdaley.

 

Also as stated, Peco electrofrog points can be used without modification. However frog switching relies on contact between the point rail and the stock rail. This also means that the open point rail is opposite polarity to the adjacent stock rail; gaps are fairly wide but there is the slight risk that a wheel will short across the two. The safest and most reliable is to carry out the mods above and add separate frog switching.

[BG John]

As has been mentioned this problem was discussed a while ago and the solution posted above by amdaley.

 

Also as stated, Peco electrofrog points can be used without modification. However frog switching relies on contact between the point rail and the stock rail. This also means that the open point rail is opposite polarity to the adjacent stock rail; gaps are fairly wide but there is the slight risk that a wheel will short across the two. The safest and most reliable is to carry out the mods above and add separate frog switching.

I'll see how they work, and if there's a problem I can cut the rails and rewire them on the layout. One will be buried under printed paper paving, and the other under deep ballast to hide the fact that it's not narrow gauge, so above surface wiring can be hidden.

[BR60103]

You might do a quick check of your stock vs the points. Compare the check gauge of the axles (back to back plus one flange width) against the similar measurement through the points.

[Crewlisle]

As I have stated on many forums on the subject of wiring up Peco Code 100 points,  THERE IS NO NEED TO DO ANYTHING.  By many on these forums who advocate polarity changing point  motors or switches I am considered to be a heretic & should be burnt at the stake!

 

1.  The point springs are strong enough for positive electrical contact providing the inner faces of the movable blades are kept clean.  The number of polarity failures I have had over the  last 30 years can be counted on one hand.  The only polarity switch on my layout is for the live diamond.

 

2.  To prove it I have a total of 30 Code 100 points ranging from small radius Y points up to large radius curved points on my 'Crewlisle' DCC exhibition layout.   I only started having to renew them about 5 years ago as they had ‘worn out!

 

Peter

[woodenhead]

Question. Why does an insulfrog code 100 point need isolators after the frog on DCC.

 

I thought the whole point of insulfrog was the frog was isolated

[BG John]

I've just stuck the first one down without modifying it, so it's too late to do it now!

[DCB]

Question. Why does an insulfrog code 100 point need isolators after the frog on DCC.

 

I thought the whole point of insulfrog was the frog was isolated

Because you will get a momentary short at the frog on some  insulfrog peco points when a train passes if you add feeds to "De Isolate" the rails leading from the frog to run DCC sounds and lights.  If you don't want tp run trains up and down with points against them or use lights or colonel bogey air horns on the locos there is little need.

 

Cutting the rails sounds like a great way to ruin a point. 

[298]

Because you will get a momentary short at the frog on some insulfrog peco points when a train passes if you add feeds to "De Isolate" the rails leading from the frog to run DCC sounds and lights. If you don't want tp run trains up and down with points against them or use lights or colonel bogey air horns on the locos there is little need.

I can understand why Peco make products that work "out of the box", but what ever happened to the principle of having the left rail connected to the left feed, the right rail connected to the right feed, and anything that had to be shared is switched accordingly with proper contacts. My Engineering Manager would have kittens if he undertook a root cause analysis exercise using the average failed exhibition layout.

 

Cutting the rails sounds like a great way to ruin a point.

 

I'll bear that in mind after I've soldered, painted, weathered and ballasted mine then.

[BG John]

Cutting the rails sounds like a great way to ruin a point. 

I think Peco points, and track, are eminently ruinable. Have you seen what I've done to them on Cheapside Yard? It's been a real shock to me to buy two new ones, and then lay them unruined!

[amdaley]

Of course Peco points can be used directly from the packet but remember the Op said in his post " the repaired one doesn't have any decent contacts, or the locking mechanism"

So he has no choice but to modify (ruin) it.

[BG John]

Of course Peco points can be used directly from the packet but remember the Op said in his post " the repaired one doesn't have any decent contacts, or the locking mechanism"

So he has no choice but to modify (ruin) it.

Or buy a new one, which is what I did! I'll "ruin" the other one when I find another use for it .

[DCB]

Hopefully a reply to the original post.

 

If you don't have the locking mechanism you can get a replacement from Peco.

 

If it is broken I would bin it or use a point lever.

 

Wiring  The Y is absolutely fine. If you are using DCC fit a separate switch/ microswitch to switch the polarity to take the load off the point blade contact see pic.

 

If you are feeding the tracks from a bus bar so everything is permanently live you need double isolators at the frog,

If pat of a loop or continuous run you may need at least one isolator at the frog, but not in every case.

 

If you are using early Trix or worn out Triang you should consider scrapping them, otherwise cutting rails and bonding stock rails to point blades is completely un necessary with code 100 short Ys. Shorts can arise with very tight back to back measurements and the curved point is marginal but the Ys and straight turnouts should be fine in code 100.   Even Triang will run Ok if you reset the back to back to 14.2mm sliding fit.

 

Rail cutting, bonding comes in with finer rail sections and closer gaps between rails at opposite polarities. Most "handbuilt" points have frog assemblies containing live checkrails which Peco simply dont have.

 

Hopefully my pics are helpful but I have 40 year old code 100 peco points still in front line use so there is little wrong with them

 

 

[NickC]

One slight difference to the previous comment. On the current electro-frog SL-E97 points the check rails at the frog are live, not isolated. I'm guessing they are isolated on the insu-frog version though.