No Decorum Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Mike and Tony have done wonderful jobs on their locos and have every right to feel smug – with all the griping there is about prices it goes to show that great satisfaction can be had without major expenditure. I have done very little to mine but when Hornby S&DJR Jinties were cheap, I bought a handful and put the chassis under various old Hornby 0-6-0Ts, including this one. I’ve added a crew and coal and left it at that. For all its shortcomings, it’s a nice little loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 20, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2017 Great satisfaction without major expenditure is spot on, Decorum, and while I had mine for a song, the loco is not expensive. I am properly enjoying the modelling she is giving me (now there's a phrase that could be taken out of context), and while I would not at the start of the process have regarded her as a lily to gild, gilded she is gradually becoming, and the emergence of a credible model from a loco I have for years regarded as a toy is a joyous thing to behold. As I do it, as the work progresses, she seems to take on more of what I think might have been the character and personality of the original 2761 at Tondu in the early BR period, an unloved workhorse at the end of her life that should have been put out of her misery 20 years before, but unable to hide the late Victorian grace and style beneath the filth and neglect, almost an icon of overworked and neglected post-war steam at the rough end of the game. I keep seeing more things to do to her; the splasher edges are a bit 'blobby' and might be improved with Milliput sculpted into a proper angle, and Mike's and Tony's engines both have brass spectacle plates picked out; I must do these even if Caerphilly painted them over. The reversing rod is not moulded but needs to be added if only to show the Caerphilly trademark of it being painted red, only to be covered in weathering of course!. I suppose one could replace a lot of the backhead detail with separate items, and she also needs a handbrake standard in that open cab, and then of course the cutout in the bunker's cab sheet to enable it to turn. The coal door into the bunker is a bit crude and very visible, and it needs at least the slides it moved up and down in. What else will I notice to be done by this time tormorrow? Not unreasonable to compare her to my Baccy 64xx, a loco of similar size but a very good RTR model indeed that needed nothing doing to her (mine is lightly weathered but otherwise as OOTB). The Baccy is a much better slow runner, and a pure delight to operate, but I haven't finished with 2761 in that regard yet, and when I've ballasted her bunker properly there may not be that much in it. I love both models, but in different ways and for different reasons; I regard myself as an operator first and a modeller second, but am not immune to the satisfaction of the relationship built between myself and a model I am putting thought, time, and energy into; she is 'mine' in a way that 6410 ( when I get around to ordering plates for her) cannot be, but not as much as the kit-built 6439 once was. I may not do all of those improvements, or do them piecemeal over a period, but I would thoroughly suggest a loco of this sort, 'railroady' RTR, that responds to a bit of fettling up, to anyone about to take the plunge away from straight OOTB modelling; it is easy and satisfying. I am by no means a skilled or particularly good modeller, but nothing I have done to 2761 is beyond the capacity of anyone who, for instance, has ever build an Airfix Spitfire.. I have been lucky in having a dead donor loco for some items (the death of the loco in question was another sort of luck but ended with my buying a new Baccy 64xx with which I am very happy even if I couldn't really afford it, and it's nice that some parts of 6439 are living on), and have not had the faff of sourcing bits or waiting for the next show to hope to pick them up, but something like this would be a good transition into 'improved RTR' modelling and not expensive enough to be a major disaster if you were to mess it up! There a several Hornby Railroad 0-6-0s in this category, and you may need to get a wiggle on before they are replaced by expensive versions with the J50 chassis... I hope I haven't come over as nitpicky in this thread; the model is not perfect but there is little about it that cannot be either lived with or easily replaced/improved. It's just that I am keen to recreate a particular loco at a particular time in a particular geographical area, which demands less generalised approach than might be normal. I was actually quite happy with the standard of the Hornby livery and printing, and even now have no immediate plans to replace the numberplate, not a comment I would be making if I had just bought a Hattons 14xx.. The buffer beam numbers are as good as I've seen anywhere. The biggest problem so far is sourcing or commissioning transfers for the 'Grotesque' initiials; once they are on, I will regard the loco as 'complete but capable of more work'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 The spectacle plates are brass etchings originally from, I think, Mainly Trains. They, and the perspex windows, are held in place by 'Klear'. Cutting the windows was a little fiddley but well worth the effort ultimately and I'd certainly recommend it. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 20, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2017 The spectacle plates are brass etchings originally from, I think, Mainly Trains. They, and the perspex windows, are held in place by 'Klear'. Cutting the windows was a little fiddley but well worth the effort ultimately and I'd certainly recommend it. Tony 2761's windows are currently bits of plastic packaging off a set of Baccy passengers glued behind the cab front sheet, and are not going to ultimately cut the mustard; apart from anything else they are too far back, too deeply set. I will have to eventually replace them with something along these lines. The brass spectacles would have been painted over at Caerphilly at her last overhaul, but the relief of them still needs to be there. This, or rather a dirty neglected version of it, is the look I am going for; thank you for the picture and the advice, Prometheus. You've got the pipework beneath the tanks by the cab front about right to my eyes as well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 '....I would thoroughly suggest a loco of this sort, 'railroady' RTR, that responds to a bit of fettling up, to anyone about to take the plunge away from straight OOTB modelling; it is easy and satisfying. I am by no means a skilled or particularly good modeller, but nothing I have done to 2761 is beyond the capacity of anyone who, for instance, has ever build an Airfix Spitfire....'. Absolutely spot-on Johnster. You only need the tools, a moderately steady hand and a photo or two. It is hugely satisfying to move beyond the Sow's Ear. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 My rather tame revamp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 21, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2017 My rather tame revamp Nowt tame about that; looks pretty good to me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted March 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2017 I dug mine out of it's hiding hole today and found I only got as far as replacing the chimney. One day I'll get round to finishing it.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I have just dug my second one out and replaced the Hornby chassis with a Bachmann.Took less than an hour. After removing bunker section and cab roof, using a cheap ex Aldi small drill with sanding cylinder, shave away the inside until daylight appears where it should Remove some of the running plate ribs at the back, a section of the cab backhead controls and the Bachmann chassis will push fit. Remove section of Cab floor to fit around Bachmann chassis. You can fit chunks of plasticard under the front and rear floor aand drill out for fixing screws. Replace bunker. One challenge. Check which version of the 'modern' non pancake chassis your pannier has. The first one I did was a much later one with only the worm cutting into the cab. This is the first of the improved chassis with a much larger weight block. I will have to put an overall can roof on this one as well. Sods law, the first one I did with only the end of the worm in view, I put a full cab on. So there you are. If you are not satisfied with the Hornby/Scalextric chassis then a Bachmann can be fitted n place, with the benefit of brake rods and daylight under the tanks. Have fun Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted March 22, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2017 Very nice work Mike. Jonster, I hope we're not hijacking your thread but I just wanted to add to Mike's post that the current versions of Bachmann's 57xx/8750 chassis are different. The photo below shows the one with the chunky chassis block that Mike used on his modification (mine came from the old Bachmann 57xx ref 31-900). Since then a new version has been introduced, seen on the right (mine came from an 8750 ref 32-200). This newer one is lower and doesn't protrude so far into the cab. So it might be even better for the conversion. Note that the newer version also has variants by the way, although the differences seem to be minor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 All credit to those well represented models. Mine is just tatty, needs a new handrail and knobs , but it does have TTS sound installed.... http://myweb.cytanet.com.cy/honnor/article1.html Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 22, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2017 Hijack away, Mikkel, given the very generous assistance I've had from you with this project I could hardly complain! I think I will stick with the Hornby chassis, as the Baccy one, while an excellent runner (I have versions of it under a 64xx and 57xx) has fishbelly coupling rods, and 2761's were parallel plain ones. I investigated turning the fluted Hornby generic ones around, but they are not plain on the other side; nonetheless I can 'plainerise' them by filling in the fluting. Another issue is that some motor would protrude into the cab whatever version of the Baccy chassis is used, and I cannot accept this with such an open cab, even if I ultimately model it with the canvas weather sheet over it. It might at some future date be worth looking into how the Baccy Johnson 1F half-cab chassis might sit under 2721; I suspect it'll run better out of the box than anything I can improve the Hornby offering to. This is a recent Hornby, by the way, not the Rovex derived generic Jinty or the awful Scalextric pocket rocket, which was never AFAIK fitted under a 2721 and was the generic 0-4-0 from, originally, Nellie. The chassis under the loco now is not a bad one, and as I say the motor is a very sweet running little thing, and should give acceptable slow running and smooth starting and stopping enough for passenger work once I have got to grips with the weight distribution and the pickup. A lead or similar weight in the bunker, as far back as I can get it, is needed to ensure good pickup on the rear drivers to hole the loco firmly down to the rails against the sprung rear axle, which lifts the loco into the air slightly at present; I have already stuffed a good bit of blu tack into the smokebox and panniers and have a suitable weight out of an old ML pannier bunker, but it needs sawing and filing to fit. Life has interrupted modelling a little over the last week, but normal service will be resumed shortly. I may even manage a session later this evening! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 22, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2017 All credit to those well represented models. Mine is just tatty, needs a new handrail and knobs , but it does have TTS sound installed.... http://myweb.cytanet.com.cy/honnor/article1.html Rob Yours has a much better safety valve cover then mine did, with at least a nod to the fact that there are safety valves in there. I may have made some unfair comments about Hornby's interpretation of this item, as mine showed evidence of having been glued on and might not have been the original; my apologies to Hornby if this is the case. The current one on 2761 is a whitemetal casting off a Westward 64xx, and is probably what I would have put on the loco anyway. Why anyone would deliberately and consciously put the abomination that my model had on it there is beyond me. TTS is not a thing I have to worry about, I just make chuff chuff and woowoo noises... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted March 22, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2017 Have you considered fitting a whitemetal footplate crew, to add weight behind the rear drivers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 22, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2017 Have you considered fitting a whitemetal footplate crew, to add weight behind the rear drivers? Actually, no, not a bad idea! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted March 26, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2017 Yours has a much better safety valve cover then mine did, with at least a nod to the fact that there are safety valves in there. I may have made some unfair comments about Hornby's interpretation of this item, as mine showed evidence of having been glued on and might not have been the original; my apologies to Hornby if this is the case. The current one on 2761 is a whitemetal casting off a Westward 64xx, and is probably what I would have put on the loco anyway. Why anyone would deliberately and consciously put the abomination that my model had on it there is beyond me. Hornby put it there It sounds like you have a very early version, like mine (bought new 35yrs ago). The top of the safety valve cover is plain with a slight dimple in it, no little pips to hint towards it's true purpose. You'll probably have moulded bunker and cab handrails too, unlike the later versions that Hornby now fit wire handrails? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I have been having a play with my second 2721 conversion. Because I only had the first version of the upgraded Bachmann Pannier chassis to use, I needed a all over cab again. I did not really want two the same so I hit the books and found the first all over cabs had the pre Collett style bunkers. Using scrap brass left over from a David Geen coach kit I cut and folded up a new bunker to the old style. Then I made up a new cab floor, rear spectacle plate from plasticard and finally a new roof. I originally made a plasticard roof but it was too thick and lost all its' strength when I reduced the thickness so I cut a brass one, original Hornby whistles reused.. I just need to finish off small details now prior to a repaint. These are really cheap conversions. This body came as a complete loco and I sold the chassis on for the price I paid for the whole loco. Parts are from the scrap bin and the Bachmann Pannier has been at the back of a drawer, unused for at least 10 years if not more. I had considered purchasing a SEF 1854, but with wheels and motor would have resulted in costs of over £100, and then I would have to spend the extra time required to build it( I probably will still buy the SEF when I have more time). This one cheaper and quicker, and as work is demanding 10-12 hour days, at the moment, it is a nice project to spend an hour a night on, without too much effort, before bed. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 That's an absolute delight Mike. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Excellent work there Mr CB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Hi. Doing a model of 2761 myself and just stumbled across this thread. I was under the impression that 2761 finished her career at Taunton, not Tondu. I'll post some pics of my efforts when I can. hats off to all who have posted pics of their own models above. superb work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Just rechecked and you are right about 2761 being at Tondu. Don't know how I convinced myself it was a Taunton loco. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted April 3, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2017 Hornby put it there It sounds like you have a very early version, like mine (bought new 35yrs ago). The top of the safety valve cover is plain with a slight dimple in it, no little pips to hint towards it's true purpose. You'll probably have moulded bunker and cab handrails too, unlike the later versions that Hornby now fit wire handrails? Well, 57xx, the safety valve cover that was originally on mine, by which I mean originally when I originally acquired the model, is exactly as you describe, but I do not think 2761 is a 35 year old early version. It has wire handrails bunker and cab, around the tanks, and the grab rails on the tops of the tanks at the front, and a 'modern' (design clever?) chassis with sprung rear axle. IIRC the original had a one-piece stamping for the coupling rod, held in by a bloody great screw with the slot head visible for all to see and wonder at; mine has proper tapped crankpins with hex heads and separate pieces for the fore and aft coupling rods. In short, it's a much better piece of work than the old one, and I've got it running reasonably well now, though I think more weight in the bunker might improve pick-up and put the loco in the 'suitable for shunting' category. But that safety valve cover suggests that my engine might have a more interesting provenance than an elderly lady trying to carry off a bit of Edwardian dignity should have. The Westward one is a major improvement! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted April 3, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2017 Sometimes it's worth reading the instructions properly. My current 'problems' with 2761 are (a) sourcing GWR 'Grotesque' transfers for the wartime austerity livery I want to use, and (b) ballasting the bunker to enable the body to sit properly on the chassis, hopefully improving the pickup and hence the slow running and stop/starting performance in general. Proper reading of the 0-6-0 Hornby chassis service sheet shows that the springs which bear down on the rear axle, which I think are too powerful and are lifting the rear of the loco off the axle rather than allowing the weight of the loco to pressure the wheels onto the track firmly, can be adjusted for strength; one can weaken them, which I intend to do, by cutting a single coil from the top of each of them, or alternatively strengthen them by putting pieces of card into their locating holes in the chassis block. A balance has to be achieved here; too hard and the spring lifts the engine in the manner described, and too soft will give the axle too much play in it's rather loose fitting square channel groove; too much play will result in the rear of the wheel treads moving off the pickups, which will do nobody any good at all. So I will cut half a coil at a time until the loco sits right, which will be when the body sits on the chassis without lifting at the rear, at which point the running should be at the best possible achievable for this model. Might be a week or so before I can get around to experimenting with it, as I. have some other stuff distracting me from the serious business of modelling at the moment, but will report back with results. They may be of interest to anyone who is trying to fettle up a Hornby 0-6-0 chassis of this sort, and I may have to ballast the bunker as well to achieve the result I want... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted April 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 4, 2017 This is what happened to mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted April 4, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2017 This is what happened to mine. Clever. A crane to lift the dome off... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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