First D-Trains ready for sale

[D854_Tiger]

For delivery in Q1 2018.

 

http://vivarail.co.uk/first-d-trains-ready-sale-delivery-q1-2018/

 

Rumour has it they already have a customer as well, but no one is saying.

 

But then this is also breaking news.

 

http://www.okehampton-today.co.uk/article.cfm?id=420560&headline=Okehampton%20to%20Exeter%20commuter%20train%20trials%20planned&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2017

 

A commuter service trial for Okehampton planned for 2018.

 

Then where might they get the stock for that and note the word trial.

 

So, I've decided to add two and two together to make five.

[Zomboid]

How marginal is the Okehampton constituency? Just when these things get announced during an election campaign, the more cynical of us might go for a 2+2=230...

 

Of course, they'll be infinitely better than the current service on that particular route.

[D854_Tiger]

How marginal is the Okehampton constituency? Just when these things get announced during an election campaign, the more cynical of us might go for a 2+2=230...

 

Of course, they'll be infinitely better than the current service on that particular route.

 

I suspect that might be the whole point.

 

No one is going to claim they're getting someone else's cast offs (always politically sensitive) for a service that currently doesn't exist.

[JohnR]

Okehampton and Crediton are both in the Central Devon constituency, which has a 21,000 Tory majority. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Should not be too difficult, by 2018, to provide some stock for Okehampton which would be interchangeable with other units in the Exeter area.

 

I wish the Vivarail project well but I can't really see many obvious locations in the UK for them.

[Glorious NSE]

Should not be too difficult, by 2018, to provide some stock for Okehampton which would be interchangeable with other units in the Exeter area.

 

I wish the Vivarail project well but I can't really see many obvious locations in the UK for them.

I'd agree that finding an odd extra unit compatible with the existing fleet for Okehampton ought to be doable (but things like Tram Train show how a logical answer isn't always the one that gets chosen!)

 

Welsh valleys are the only one that really jumps out as a quantity replacement - pacers were supposed to be replaced by electrification before the end-2019 date for disability upgrades, and to my knowledge nothing has been done on valleys electrification or creating an upgrade program to life extend them. We're now out of time on the former I suspect, and I don't think the latter is really viable.

 

Kicking that issue 10 years into the future with a short term pacer replacement could be a real option there.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Glorious NSE

[D854_Tiger]

Should not be too difficult, by 2018, to provide some stock for Okehampton which would be interchangeable with other units in the Exeter area.

 

I wish the Vivarail project well but I can't really see many obvious locations in the UK for them.

 

 

Will it be the case that enough surplus DMUs will become available thanks to electrification projects.

 

Given that many existing DMU services elsewhere already suffer from overcrowding, will need urgent strengthening and many surplus DMUs will be needed to replace Pacers.

 

Then Okehampton is a relatively isolated part of the network and ideal for a trial. 

 

Long term should that service be successful then maybe something more compatible for the local operation could be drafted in.

 

But those Pacers still need replacing and could the cost of new diesel trains be justified for that, when such a cheap (and none nasty) solution is available.

[Glorious NSE]

Will it be the case that enough surplus DMUs will become available thanks to electrification projects

 

 

It should be the case, but so many schemes have been delayed or paused I'm not convinced they will be.

 

There are other wild-cards, like engines under 319s though.

 

But those Pacers still need replacing and could the cost of new diesel trains be justified for that, when such a cheap (and none nasty) solution is available.

 

Nobody is going to want to buy new diesel trains for routes that are going to cease to be DMU operated...

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

I'd agree that finding an odd extra unit compatible with the existing fleet for Okehampton ought to be doable (but things like Tram Train show how a logical answer isn't always the one that gets chosen!)

 

Welsh valleys are the only one that really jumps out as a quantity replacement - pacers were supposed to be replaced by electrification before the end-2019 date for disability upgrades, and to my knowledge nothing has been done on valleys electrification or creating an upgrade program to life extend them. We're now out of time on the former I suspect, and I don't think the latter is really viable.

 

Kicking that issue 10 years into the future with a short term pacer replacement could be a real option there.

 

 

Yes, the Welsh Valleys could be an option if the political embarrassment factor of not delivering electrification can be overcome. Some of the journey times perhaps a bit long for units such as these.

[Glorious NSE]

Yes, the Welsh Valleys could be an option if the political embarrassment factor of not delivering electrification can be overcome. Some of the journey times perhaps a bit long for units such as these.

It's an embarrassment that somebody will need to face up to at some point either way.

 

Would have thought that a nicely specced out one of these could beat an existing 142 in every way other than build date - would give a potentially better environment than a warmed over 315 as well.

 

 

 

[Chris116]

Yes, the Welsh Valleys could be an option if the political embarrassment factor of not delivering electrification can be overcome. Some of the journey times perhaps a bit long for units such as these.

Having ridden on Pacers in Wales, the South West and North West and having lived in London riding on the D Stock, I know which I would prefer to do an hour long journey in. Wimbledon to Upminster by D Stock was fine but I was less keen on Barry to Aberdare in a Pacer.

 

Like most of us I would prefer that the Valley lines and others were electrified but a D Train is a good step up from a Pacer in my view.

[John_Miles]

So Wales gets fobbed off with rubbish again. We, along with lots of places up north, have had to endure Pacers and now we are potentially going to get these.

[Nearholmer]

Yes, D stock is a very good train; good car body and good, newish, bogies.

 

I think that suitably "upcycled" it will actually be very popular with customers.

 

It came out of service for all sorts of reasons relating to capacity, and acceleration capability, which have no bearing its usefulness elsewhere.

 

Kevin

Edited May 25, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Joseph_Pestell]

Yes, D stock is a very good train; good car body and good, newish, bogies.

 

I think that suitably "upcycled" it will actually be very popular with customers.

 

It came out of service for all sorts of reasons relating to capacity, and acceleration capability, which have no bearing its usefulness elsewhere.

 

Kevin

To give it its full title, D78 stock. There is a clue there as to why some people are not that keen.

[Glorious NSE]

To give it its full title, D78 stock. There is a clue there as to why some people are not that keen.

Trouble is folk get wound up about age and ignore relative quality - by the same argument we should keep all the Pacers and scrap the Mk3s.

 

The only way it's "worse" than a 142 is the age of the body structure. Nothing else is relevant to the argument, the interiors will be new, the drive will be new, the running gear is only a decade or so old....

 

 

 

 

 

[Titan]

So Wales gets fobbed off with rubbish again. We, along with lots of places up north, have had to endure Pacers and now we are potentially going to get these.

 

 

To give it its full title, D78 stock. There is a clue there as to why some people are not that keen.

 

Cos age is all that matters! Seems that some people would much rather have a worse new train than a better old one because the only thing that matters is age.

[jim.snowdon]

So Wales gets fobbed off with rubbish again. We, along with lots of places up north, have had to endure Pacers and now we are potentially going to get these.

So what's wrong with an up-cycled D78. Structurally, it's got more life left in it yet, and once it has been re-fitted internally, do the passengers really worry about the structure? They're inside a train, and so long as it does the job of getting them from A to B in reasonable comfort, do they really care about whether its body was built in Birmingham c.1980.

 

Jim

[Ramblin Rich]

Of course if the D78s were to be used in the Valleys, when the wires finally go up the Ford engines could be swapped for 25kV transformers....

 

I'll get my coat; and tin hat....

[johnd]

Well we know what will happen in the North West don't we.everybody else's cast off will be sent here till it's life expired ! Well it's what usually happens .

[D854_Tiger]

The spec of the interior will be everything.

 

How many generations of EMU and DMU were based on the mk3 body shell and how many of those trains had interiors that were pretty awful, with 2 + 3 seating that never lined up with the windows.

 

Yet a mk3 first class coach is arguably as good as train travel got in this country.

 

A Vivarail with 2+2 seating, nice tables a decent view out of the window, well give me one of those over a class 153 on the HoW line anyday.

[HillsideDepot]

Well we know what will happen in the North West don't we.everybody else's cast off will be sent here till it's life expired ! Well it's what usually happens .

 

Whilst they are not new by any stretch of the imagination, at least the North West is getting trains. Here on the GWR we're losing Sprinters and HSTs with nothing immediately to fill the gap. Yes, I know the IEPs will be brand new, and the 387 EMUs too, but local lines further west already struggle to cover the full service and once the cascade out starts in September there is nothing coming in until 2018, and then it will be cast off Turbos, and refurbished (yet again) HST GTi sets. 

Short formed sets are already a serious problem and passengers are being left behind at various points on the network. I know a manager who has to regularly go out to services at Temple Meads and ask passengers to leave trains so that the Guard can physically get on board, and I am aware of trains leaving behind dozens of people at Yeovil Pen Mill, not on summer Saturdays, but overcast spring weekdays when they are short formed. And that's with the current fleet strength. 

Cast offs are not ideal, but they are better than nothing, which is what we'll have in the South West. If you don't want our Sprinters, that suits us as I know GWR is desperate to keep them here.

[JohnR]

The spec of the interior will be everything.

 

How many generations of EMU and DMU were based on the mk3 body shell and how many of those trains had interiors that were pretty awful, with 2 + 3 seating that never lined up with the windows.

 

Yet a mk3 first class coach is arguably as good as train travel got in this country.

 

A Vivarail with 2+2 seating, nice tables a decent view out of the window, well give me one of those over a class 153 on the HoW line anyday.

Interior spec is whatever the end user requests. Vivarail will display a number of options, but if a TOC wants to stick in First Class full leather seating, thats up to them. Its not the manufacturer who decides. 

[black and decker boy]

Should not be too difficult, by 2018, to provide some stock for Okehampton which would be interchangeable with other units in the Exeter area.

 

I wish the Vivarail project well but I can't really see many obvious locations in the UK for them.

With what exactly.

 

I'm not sure there are any surplus DMU until late 2019 and more likely 2020 when TPE and Anglia release their fleets and even then, Cardiff valleys need something to replace pacers

 

In 2017/18 all DMU are accounted for, principally going to Northern

[wombatofludham]

I do wonder if the Valleys are being lined up for a fleet as capacity growth given the recent BBC coverage.  A small captive fleet of D trains, keeping the three doors per carriage and with a mix of side facing and facing pair seating, would probably be better suited to the Valleys commuter runs which are some of the fastest growing in the country, better than the current Railbuses with three doors per side per train and all uni-directional 2+2 seating.  If they can be delivered quickly I'm sure Cardiff Bay could spin out the "London cast offs" jibes from certain quarters with "Well, do you prefer overcrowding on the existing fleet or do you want extra capacity now?  If so this is the quickest way to do it".

 

I expect most people in the Valleys would vote for the latter.

[D854_Tiger]

Suitable, fobbed off and cast offs are, for me, all terms that rather miss the point.

 

The point here surely is that some rather good trains (much better than many others still in service), with plenty of years of life left in them are going begging all for the want of a refurbishment and new diesels.

 

Call me old fashioned and whatever the politics of the situation or relative wealth of the nation, you just don't scrap trains like that wasting perfectly good resources.

 

Someone has to have them, someone should have them, it's just a question of where.

 

All too often in the past, on our railways, we have seen perfectly good stock go to waste in favour of an obsession with new build that has been more often than not compromised.