Pint of Adnams Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Photographs of the LNER 20T Concrete-bodied Brake Van Toad C, body designed by K Holst consulting engineers and built (cast) at Stratford Temple Mills on a standard Toad B underframe. Note standard Toad B type wooden ducket, door and frame, window frames and end stanchions, also standard handrails, lamp irons etc. fixed to the concrete. The N E Lettering, running number and weight were cast in the concrete, formed by thin wooden templates attached to the internal face of the shuttering. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium it's-er Posted January 11, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2018 Bet that - the concrete version in Pint of Adnams's photos above - was cold in winter and hot in summer. And probably magnified noise and vibration. The normal wooden body would be warmer to the feel, and would absorb sound to some extent. I suspect the concrete version was disliked intensely by guards - does anyone know? John Storey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) Bet that - the concrete version in Pint of Adnams's photos above - was cold in winter and hot in summer. And probably magnified noise and vibration. The normal wooden body would be warmer to the feel, and would absorb sound to some extent. I suspect the concrete version was disliked intensely by guards - does anyone know? John Storey Yes - and you are correct in your assumptions. The interior of the body was lined with cork to reduce condensation. From the 1929 Annual Report of the LNER Central Wagon Control Office: 'The 20-ton concrete brake van has been constructed as an experiment. The entire body of this vehicle with the exception of the window frames, doors, side duckets and interior fittings is of ferro-concrete. The running of the van is excellent but the following objections have been raised by guards who have used the van: 1) It is damp, cold and draughty. 2) The use of concrete is injurious to health and tends to cause rheumatism and if such vans were in general use a good deal of time would be lost by guards through illness. 3) In case of accident the danger and risk to life would be increased as the reinforced concrete could not be cut away with an axe and saw and if the guard got fastened in or underneath the van, extrication would be much more difficult than in the case of a wooden van. The points made in connection with draughts and are having the attention of the Chief Mechanical Engineer.' Edited January 11, 2018 by Pint of Adnams 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 There's a thread on this on the LNER Forum here. Towards the end is a piece I posted by one of the employees of Holst who was involved in the construction. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaymzHatstand Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Hornby have shared an imagevof their stereo samples of the Toads via their Farcebook and Chitter accounts, presumably Instagran as well, but I'm not on that! Hopefully the link below should work for those who don't use any of the above! https://twitter.com/Hornby/status/954028276724445185?s=09 I've not posted the image directly as I'm not sure if it's a copywrite issue. I dare say that as they've shared them publicly it wouldn't be the end of the world, but you never know! Cheers J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium it's-er Posted January 26, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2018 Bawdsey of the Albion Yard blog wa at London Toy Fair this week, and got some very good photos of Hornby's forthcoming LNER Toad van, including the first we have seen of the undercarriage. Here is the link to his photos: https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2018/01/25/Hornby-london-toy-fair-2018/ John S 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted January 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2018 Bawdsey of the Albion Yard blog wa at London Toy Fair this week, and got some very good photos of Hornby's forthcoming LNER Toad van, including the first we have seen of the undercarriage. Here is the link to his photos: https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2018/01/25/Hornby-london-toy-fair-2018/ John S Thanks, I've read that and the shots of the brake van do look really good! As an aside, I'm not sure what the 'single large circular roof vent' is that he refers to as I think I've only ever seen pictures and drawings with two torpedo vents as per the model; anyway since Hornby aren't doing that it needn't really bother us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Thanks, I've read that and the shots of the brake van do look really good! As an aside, I'm not sure what the 'single large circular roof vent' is that he refers to as I think I've only ever seen pictures and drawings with two torpedo vents as per the model; anyway since Hornby aren't doing that it needn't really bother us. I'm not sure about the single large circular roof vent unless there were some hitherto undocumented with gas lighting? What I have noted is that the rainstrips above the verandas are the arc shape, as per the old Airfix kit, and not often seen as such on the real thing. Absent, a much flatter curve, straight and angled downwards to the outer corners of the roof or angled downwards to the inboard side of the opening are more common. Unfortunately many views of the vans are side views and the rainstrips are lost in the lighter roof or slightly out of the angle of vision, especially if taken from ground level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted February 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2018 I'm not sure about the single large circular roof vent unless there were some hitherto undocumented with gas lighting? . Ahh, my cock up I’m afraid! A misunderstanding of mine from viewing a few images and a conversation with Richard from Parkside prior to the sale to Peco. I understood incorrectly that the roof vents were single larger vents rather than the pairs that they are. Apologies for any confusion I’ve caused Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) Ahh, my cock up I’m afraid! A misunderstanding of mine from viewing a few images and a conversation with Richard from Parkside prior to the sale to Peco. I understood incorrectly that the roof vents were single larger vents rather than the pairs that they are. Apologies for any confusion I’ve caused Perhaps a mix-up over the shapes rather than the numbers? The LNER Goods Brake Van torpedo vents were circular in side profile whilst those fitted to the Fruit Vans from 1928 were of the same flattened oval side profile as fitted to coaching stock. The LNER only changed to the flattened oval side profile type for Goods Brake Vans sometime during WW2, possibly with the introduction of the revised Diagram 158 express Brake Van having some additional underframe trussing. No wonder people can be confused, as I was until re-checking in Peter Tatlow's LNER Wagons series, hence the edit. Best as always to refer to photographs, if you can find any that show the roof fittings clearly. Edited February 12, 2018 by Pint of Adnams Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinTrucks Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) Photos of engineering samples are contained in today's Engine Shed blog: https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/sounding-off-with-the-tts-vent-van-and-much-more?utm_campaign=2080873_Hornby%20-%20Engine%20Shed%20-%20Week%203%202018&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Hornby%20PLC&_%24ja=tsid%3A71284&dm_i=2DJZ,18LM1,6J794O,3XXU3,1 Edited April 20, 2018 by MartinTrucks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
autocoach Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Is this somewhat similar to an LSWR Diagram 1543 brake van? With the Cambrian promised version long delayed due to the sale of the range, I am thinking of a foobie substitution.....Were not the LNER versions used on the Wenford Bridge branch at some point? (What's a foobie? A term common in North American model railroading used to describe the product of an RTR manufacturer/importer putting the paint scheme of a different railroad on a car knowing the great unwashed wouldn't know the difference. A Southern Pacific paint scheme on an obviously Pennsylvania RR boxcar. A shoddy way to make extra bucks with little investment.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Is this somewhat similar to an LSWR Diagram 1543 brake van? ... Much as one human being is similar to any other. Item: one enclosed guard's accomodation Item: one underframe: Item: one overall roof Item: two verandahs Item: four wheels. But in just about every detail, discernably different. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted April 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2018 Oh dear, all those different versions - I could end up with a few of these! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted April 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2018 Is this somewhat similar to an LSWR Diagram 1543 brake van? With the Cambrian promised version long delayed due to the sale of the range, I am thinking of a foobie substitution.....Were not the LNER versions used on the Wenford Bridge branch at some point? (What's a foobie? A term common in North American model railroading used to describe the product of an RTR manufacturer/importer putting the paint scheme of a different railroad on a car knowing the great unwashed wouldn't know the difference. A Southern Pacific paint scheme on an obviously Pennsylvania RR boxcar. A shoddy way to make extra bucks with little investment.) Not very much like it at all, though I think they both might have a 10'6" wheelbase....... Hornby are getting fairly fastidious about fictional liveries/markings these days but if you wanted one for a home-brewed "foobie" Bachmann used to make a less accurate model of the LNER van and they can be had for a quarter of what the Hornby ones will cost. There's nothing to stop you repainting/rebranding one as Southern Railway (UK or US version ) if the fancy takes you. The "Wenford" option is better though. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Photos of engineering samples are contained in today's Engine Shed blog: https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/sounding-off-with-the-tts-vent-van-and-much-more?utm_campaign=2080873_Hornby%20-%20Engine%20Shed%20-%20Week%203%202018&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Hornby%20PLC&_%24ja=tsid%3A71284&dm_i=2DJZ,18LM1,6J794O,3XXU3,1 The Hornby team say they have noted various details that require attending too, but unhelpfully do not mention what they are. The most glaring omission are the vertical planking lines on the inside of the veranda ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Is this somewhat similar to an LSWR Diagram 1543 brake van? With the Cambrian promised version long delayed due to the sale of the range, I am thinking of a foobie substitution.....Were not the LNER versions used on the Wenford Bridge branch at some point? (What's a foobie? A term common in North American model railroading used to describe the product of an RTR manufacturer/importer putting the paint scheme of a different railroad on a car knowing the great unwashed wouldn't know the difference. A Southern Pacific paint scheme on an obviously Pennsylvania RR boxcar. A shoddy way to make extra bucks with little investment.) No. However the LNER Toad D brake van with the extended underframe and wheelbase became the basis of the BR standard design which was seen just about everywhere. Bachmann produce an RTR model of this in LNER and BR guises. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted June 14, 2018 Author Share Posted June 14, 2018 Release date of the LNER versions has been moved to November 2018. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Decorated samples in latest “Engine Shed”: https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/hop-onboard-with-the-toad-brake-vans?utm_campaign=2146732_Hornby%20-%20Engine%20Shed%20-%20Week%2016%202018&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Hornby%20PLC&_%24ja=tsid%3A71284&dm_i=2DJZ,1A0FG,77PC37,4402H,1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted July 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) Is this somewhat similar to an LSWR Diagram 1543 brake van? With the Cambrian promised version long delayed due to the sale of the range, I am thinking of a foobie substitution.....Were not the LNER versions used on the Wenford Bridge branch at some point? (What's a foobie? A term common in North American model railroading used to describe the product of an RTR manufacturer/importer putting the paint scheme of a different railroad on a car knowing the great unwashed wouldn't know the difference. A Southern Pacific paint scheme on an obviously Pennsylvania RR boxcar. A shoddy way to make extra bucks with little investment.) Also known in the manufacturing world as 'badge engineering'. People from the world of Hornby, Bachmann, Oxford, etc, put spurious liveries onto the humble 7 plank wagon, and pass this off as 'the real thing'. The running company, era, etc being a work of fiction. Cheers, Ian. Edit: That NE brakevan looks rather nice. I wonder if they made it to South Wales? Edited July 22, 2018 by tomparryharry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Livery samples for LNER and BR are now on Hornby's website... these are looking really good 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted July 31, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2018 Those vans look really nice. I'm sure that the price will rise, but I'll maintain that most people will pay that little extra for a quality product, and it'll sell well also. Cheers, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 It does look very nice, some may question whether the bodyside lamps were still fitted in BR days though, easy to remove by the looks of it. May have one for the tanker trains from the North East on Wharfeside. Dave. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted July 31, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2018 I think I may pick up a BR one as well although I suspect they were rare on the Southern Region. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) It does look very nice, some may question whether the bodyside lamps were still fitted in BR days though, easy to remove by the looks of it. Dave. Why? questioning without knowledge is not a good trait but happens too often on here! Certainly on the one they have used as a prototype https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e3f0437d9 as are the absurd ventilators Paul Edited July 31, 2018 by hmrspaul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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