How good is this Gaugemaster controller?

[Captain Kernow]

Greetings,

 

Here's another DC-related question.

 

I bought this Gaugemaster UF panel-mounted controller secondhand a while ago, with no particular purpose in mind, other than the fact that it might come in useful 'one day'.

 

 

I've decided that, in addition to my usual hand-held controller, I'd like to have a panel-mounted controller on the control panel for Bethesda Sidings, to give a bit of variety and back-up.

 

Having looked at the spec on the Gaugemaster website, however, it says that it's a 'feedback' controller and isn't suitable for Portescap and other coreless motor types.

 

So, in my complete ignorance of the practical effects of a 'feedback' controller on a non-coreless motor such as a Mashima, what exactly would this controller do and is it an improvement on the usual type of 'non-feedback' controller?

 

And just how bad is the effect on coreless motors? Will it ruin them permanently or just give poor running when they are in use? If I was to use this controller on Bethesda Sidings, most of the locos in use won't have coreless motors, but there are one or two that do, and for those I could switch to the non-feedback hand-held unit, but how much of a problem would it be if I forgot to do so?

 

Many thanks.

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Captain Kernow

[New Haven Neil]

It'll ruin coreless motors, CK.

[Captain Kernow]

It'll ruin coreless motors, CK.

So that's on a permanent basis then, by the sound of it?

[ROSSPOP]

Hi There,

 

Well, when it comes to controllers I`ve studied and tried  many  to search for the finest of loco control.........

 

 

Your Gaugemaster is/was one of my favourites ( but not on coreless) because it`s feedback provision gives better fine control with the older Japanese open frame type motors (DS10, KTM  etc)

 

Strangely enough it will control Bachmann and Hornby three and five pole motors but at a price ( some motors will be noisier than others but all will become HOT ).  You get differing performances with each and every motor which I guess is down to the quality of RTR manufacturing tolerances.

 

Unfortunately, you dont get fine control with pure DC controllers ( I`m not an electrician so cant tell you why, and unfortunately in my opinion the very best 12volt controllers are no longer made............

 

But you can be patient and snap them up on EBAY..............

 

MY ALL TIME FAVOURITE made in the 1970`s and come up regularly on ebay..... will not over heat motors and has enertia control so you drive your loco just like a real steam regulator

 

 

MY OTHER ALL TIME FAVOURITES....... ECM compspeed ( which can be fine tuned to individual motors) and  ECM Rambler 

.

 

 

 

OF COURSE NOWADAYS YOU CAN GET ALL THIS PERFECTION WITH ......... ZIMO DECODERS AND AN NCE CONTROLLER !!.................................................... who said that ?  

 

 

Johnny Rosspop

Edited July 27, 2018 by ROSSPOP

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Tim

 

I use to sell these when Gaugemaster employed me in the mid 80s and at the time they were great. They are still good. 

 

They will damage a Portescap but they love Lima motors. As noted above they were designed to give better running with the motors then in production but the downside was coreless motors. Neil Collins who designed them did try to explain how they worked using the back EMF and if my memory is correct there is no or very little back EMF from a coreless motor. The combination of a feedback controller and a coreless motor is like having a small electric fire inside your loco. 

 

I haven't noticed the ones I have making modern Bachmann and Hornby motors hot as John has reported, but I cannot say I have checked if they are hot. I have noticed that my traditional Gaugemaster controllers are equal to the feed back ones with the newer designs of motor. 

[phil gollin]

.

 

So if one wanted a modern controller for DC ONLY, suitable for all types of motor, what would peoples' favourites be ?

 

.

[Captain Kernow]

I think I shall flog that Gaugemaster off and find something else, probably the non-feedback Gaugemaster equivilent, as they are relatively easy to come by and I will need it fairly soon.

 

What about Morley Controllers - does anyone have any experience of these?

[Michael Edge]

I'm not sure what these are supposed to do to Portescap motors, I don't have many of them but they have worked happily with Gaugemaster feedback controllers for years.

[Dunsignalling]

BlueRailways are worth checking out. The basic (analogue) controller that mounts on the panel also acts as a base station for wireless walkabout control via Bluetooth, either using your smartphone or a dedicated handset.

 

John

Edited July 27, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[New Haven Neil]

AIUI, they heat coreless motors as the motor has so little internal mass (flywheel effect) it tries to follow he wave form of the controller too closely and thus creates too much internal current.  Or something. Kind of thing.  Morley controllers get a good name, as do Gaugemaster - no bias there as we don't sell Morley! Non-feedback Gaugemaster are pretty good really, plus lifetime warranty.

 

I use DCC…….#ducks.

[PatB]

I always thought it was PWM rather than feedback that coreless motors didn't like. Or is it both?

[Nearholmer]

Isn’t a feedback controller usually a pwm controller that senses back emf during the spaces between pulses?

[JohnGi]

Isn’t a feedback controller usually a pwm controller that senses back emf during the spaces between pulses?

 

Yes. The confusion which sometimes arises with model railways is because the pulse frequency of the first feedback controllers was quite low (mains frequency I think) which led to problems with coreless motors. Feedback/pwm control of coreless motors is possible at higher frequencies - that is how DCC decoders do it.

[57xx]

It'll ruin coreless motors, CK.

 

It also makes them sound like a bag of nails. 

[Tim V]

Because of the current DCC generation of controller, there has been little/no development of ordinary DC controllers. This is why modellers hark back to the 'golden age' of Portescaps, Pentrollers, because DC has not moved on from those days.

 

I saw the writing on the wall many years ago, flogged all the coreless motors and Pentrollers - never looked back.

[DCB]

I think I shall flog that Gaugemaster off and find something else, probably the non-feedback Gaugemaster equivilent, as they are relatively easy to come by and I will need it fairly soon.

 

What about Morley Controllers - does anyone have any experience of these?

 

The Morley and OnTrack are pretty much the opposite end of the spectrum to Guagemaster and the PWM /Feedback controllers.  Instead of banging away with square blocks of  full voltage, maybe 21 volts and varying the pulse width to average out the voltage and thus motor speed, Morley alter the voltage, pretty much irrespective of load.  Off load you can run the voltmeter right down below 1 volt on a Morley,   It means you get excellent speed control but at the expense of slow running.  Two reasons, the Morley control knob only goes 170 degrees from off to  full speed compared to some 300 degrees on a Gaugemaster, and the PWM feature rattles armatures giving that horrible buzzing, which helps starting and wrecks the motors.  That said the low speed juddering of a PWM looks very off compared to the smooth gliding action of a Morley.   

 

Best feature of Morley is beautifully light add on hand held unit which can have its lead extended with Din Plugs up to at least 20 yards, maybe far more, mine has an even smaller palm size  single handed home made hand held, absolutely great for shunting, it never gets hot.

 

For us the way the Morley (and On Track) lets us double head dis similar locos. last evening a Triang Hornby Hall from 1975 double headed a Heljan 1366 quite successfully (if distinctly oddly with the difference n wheel size) with no slipping, and you can't get much more different than that.

[Captain Kernow]

Thanks for the useful feedback re the Morley product in particular, David.

 

It's a shame that they don't seem to produce a panel-mounted option, nor do they do the hand-held unit separately.

[The Johnster]

I use a Gaugemaster HH with RTR, a mix of modern Bachmann and Hornby, an early Bachmann Replica type 57xx chassis, and an antediluvian Airfix large prairie.  It is excellent, to the extent that I am able to control my locos by apparent thought, being unaware of operating the controller at all so natural and ergonomic is the feel of it in my hand.  I cannot imagine higher praise for a controller; I need not add that it seems indestructibly reliable and is powered by a GM power controller even more antediluvian than the Airfix large prairie, which is in perfect working order and has never missed a beat.

 

I am very happy with my HH, and recommend it to any DC operator who wants a simple but very highly effective wire it up and forget about it unit.  But I agree that the advent of DCC has sadly put a stop to development of DC controllers, and it is probable that improvements could still be made to them.

[westerner]

Having used a Morley controller on Salmon Pastures the big snag on a layout with plenty of backwards and forwards movement ( a shed layout) there was no positive off position between forward and reverse. Twist the knob one for forward and the other way for reverse, hence the170 degree movement, but there is no positive click in between. After a few exhibitions it was relegated to bring a spare a switch was made to Gaugemaster non feedback hand held controllers

[modfather]

I've been using a gaugemaster combi with a HH as a wander controller.

 

Nothing special but it copes with 2mm, 4mm and 7mm locos pretty well.

[DCB]

Thanks for the useful feedback re the Morley product in particular, David.

 

It's a shame that they don't seem to produce a panel-mounted option, nor do they do the hand-held unit separately.

 

Having used a Morley controller on Salmon Pastures the big snag on a layout with plenty of backwards and forwards movement ( a shed layout) there was no positive off position between forward and reverse. Twist the knob one for forward and the other way for reverse, hence the170 degree movement, but there is no positive click in between. After a few exhibitions it was relegated to bring a spare a switch was made to Gaugemaster non feedback hand held controllers

There should be a click between forward and reverse, maybe the Morley was worn or faulty.  The Potentiometer used is unusual in having the mid point click, maybe a standard pot was used . The Gaugemaster has the edge for shunting, you can leave the speed control set and just use the forward / reverse switch like I have seen many exhibition operators do....

 

Thanks for the useful feedback re the Morley product in particular, David.

 

It's a shame that they don't seem to produce a panel-mounted option, nor do they do the hand-held unit separately.

The hand held is just three wires to a potentiometer in an otherwise empty plastic box so its a bit impractical for Morley to do that option but dead easy for anyone to mount a potentiometer on a panel to operate the Morley.    I stuck one under a removable shack to operate the electrically similar OnTrack using the wander lead Din Plug

[Clive Mortimore]

I use a combination of Gaugemaster ordinary and feedback controllers with a range of motors from early Tri-ang to very modern ones, but no coreless motors. No problems with motors or controllers, one controller has now seen 30 years service and many of the locos similar usage.

 

The biggest problem is a combination of me and the directional centre off switch. I open up the controller, no movement, push the loco, check the points and section switches, all OK. Push the loco, still nothing. Take the loco off the track and replace it with one that was working earlier on. Nothing, push the replacement loco.  Shount "Oh not an RMweb word", still no movement. Check centre off switch. Call myself "another word that is not used on RMweb".

[Captain Kernow]

There should be a click between forward and reverse, maybe the Morley was worn or faulty.  The Potentiometer used is unusual in having the mid point click, maybe a standard pot was used . The Gaugemaster has the edge for shunting, you can leave the speed control set and just use the forward / reverse switch like I have seen many exhibition operators do....

 

The hand held is just three wires to a potentiometer in an otherwise empty plastic box so its a bit impractical for Morley to do that option but dead easy for anyone to mount a potentiometer on a panel to operate the Morley.    I stuck one under a removable shack to operate the electrically similar OnTrack using the wander lead Din Plug

Thanks, David, but unfortunately, I don't know what a Potentiometer is or what one does. I shall look it up.

[Captain Kernow]

I use a Gaugemaster HH

 

I am very happy with my HH, and recommend it to any DC operator who wants a simple but very highly effective wire it up and forget about it unit.  

I would just add that I always use a hand-held controller as my first choice and all my layouts have been/are/will be wired to use them. The panel-mounted or traditional controller is also provided on each layout as a back-up and this is what this thread is about.

 

My original preferred hand-held controller was a Tasma, with a sliding control, which was incredibly ergonomic and gave excellent control. I had two of them and they both expired at around the same time and it was unfortunately not possible to repair them.

 

My current preference for fine/slow-speed control is an AMR hand-held, which is the default method of controlling everything on my layouts. There is a Gaugemaster as a back-up as well, which is also fine.

[Enterprisingwestern]

ISTR the H & M walkabout was a pretty good all round controller back in the day.

 

Mike.