darren01 Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 HI All I want to get away from using Peco track for my next layout, as I want Bullhead rail. I am looking at building my next layout with hand built track, oo gauge. Having looked at C+L track, points kits over £20.00, when I came across SMP track, and hell of a lot cheaper, from blacksmith models EM36 Point kit (copper clad) 36" radius LH/RH. NS or PB rail. £4.99 Has any on ever use this track and what is it like to build? All the best Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 Darren, SMP may be cheaper but you gets what you pays for and C&L will give you chairs for your bullhead rail to sit on in their kit whereas SMP does not. AFAIK the SMP kit gives rail, sleepers and instructions but the rest is up to you whereas C&L includes formed frogs and filed points. There is a third way and that is to make up your own frogs and points and save your money there and use C&L chairs. There were a couple of articles by Norman Solomon in MRJ 143 & 144 on building track in 00 to a high standard. Iain Rice also does a fine job in "An Approach to Building Finescale Track in 4mm", Wild Swan, ISBN 1 874103 003. This is aimed at trackwork in P4 but much of what is said can be applied to 00. HTH David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 Quite agree with Davknigh - C&L points look very good. I also endorse the articles and books. Cost aside, if you have not built a point before, I would recommend starting with copperclad. I don't know SMP but I have built many points with Copperclad. Even though they are not up to C&L in appearance they still look pretty good. Another useful product is Trax2 by Jeff Geary and John Shaw. "http://www.kestrelrailwaybooks.co.uk/trax2.htm" This is a good manual that comes with software that produces point templates, is quite crude compared to Templot but relatively easy to use. I have used it with great success whereas I haven't figured out Templot yet. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 Darren, I echo the comments already made. The crunch question to think about is how much track length do I have, and within that paprameter how realistic do I want my points to be. A B6 (B switch with 1:6 crossing angle 42" radius) is a good 10" long, so a crossover is approaching 2 feet of track length. To the best of my knowledge the B6 was the smallest point the western region used on their passenger lines. I use C&L thick sleepers in preference to the thin. The P4 track company is also worth a look at. A lot of their components can be used for 00. I would always reccomend building your first couple of points in copperclad to get used to using the track gauges. You can also play around tightening some of the OO clearances in to improve running, but it depends how good the wheels are on your stock. Ian Rices book gives suggested clearnces and dimensions for 00"fine scale" in the back of his book Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoshed Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 I`d recommend Right track 10 which goes through making points, copperclad and C&L, makes it look a bit too easy though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 After having made the last few layouts from SMP/C&L, I have now reverted back to Peco code 75,unfortunately just not enough hours in the day, I've even cut back on kit building - thank god for the improvements in rtr. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 A B6 (B switch with 1:6 crossing angle 42" radius) is a good 10" long, so a crossover is approaching 2 feet of track length. To the best of my knowledge the B6 was the smallest point the western region used on their passenger lines. Gordon A Bristol The B6 would only be the shortest fitted with flexible switches, the loose-heel switches are generally shorter in comparison so produce a shorted piece of P+C. They weren't used on much outside of branch lines by late BR though. The WR didn't have an A switch so always used loose heel to the end in these tight situations. SMP/C+L = chalk n cheese.. The major cost in the C+L kits is the pre assembled crossing assembly and the switch blades, SMP just give you some rail. The Portsdown models jigs though for making the crossings and switches easier by hand is now is short supply however with the death of the maker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 14, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 14, 2010 [quote name='locoshed' date='14 May 2010 - 07:45 ' timestamp='1273819542' post='139885'] I`d recommend Right track 10 which goes through making points, copperclad and C&L, makes it look a bit too easy though If you are not exhibiting and want quite a big layout then I'd go for C & L plain track (ready made, realistic but a little fragile compared to Peco) and use Peco C75 pointwork. However, if you fancy building points I agree that the Right Track DVD is excellent as a guide and well worth the dosh. I would also use a C & L kit for the first one as it gives you the 'feel' of how points go together and you have some flexibility (apologies for pun) and time to adjust in case of error. Next, I would recommend using timber sleepers with C & L parts on a C & L template; takes time but looks the business. This latter option is great for the 'smaller' layout! If you want more complex pointwork etc. than Peco can provide and you feel you can't do the job or don't have time, get someone to build for you. This is a little expensive but just look at Marcway prices (OK so they are copperclad I believe) and there is someone on Ebay that offers a building service (is it Hayfield?) As you probably know most folk use fine-scale and fully chaired stuff in the 'viewing' sections and very basic copperclad with reduced sleeperage and cheaper track 'around the back'. All point and Xing building is very theraputic and immenseley satisfying BUT can be tedious (sorry - e.g. getting the chairs facing the right way round etc.) There have been threads on here if you do a search. Good luck, 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClikC Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 In my experience it goes like this. SMP < C&L < Exactoscale. For first starting out some C&L flexi, a couple of their Point kits in a bag and a bottle of butanone will give you everything you need to get started. Once you have a basic understanding of how to put everything together, you'll be able to pick and choose prefered components. I personally prefer to use Exactoscale components with C&L HiNi nickel silver rail. Regards Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 Its worth pointing out that some wheelsets in 00 can hit the C+L/Exactoscale chairs. I think Bachmann driving wheels can sometimes have an issue, Captain K has mentioned it before amongst others. SMP flexi chairs are underscale to compensate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 Wheels shouldn't hit the exactoscale chairs unless they really are old pizza cutters the odd Lima or Triang. Also I've mentioned on the other track thread for 00, there is exactscale's Fasttrack bases which are great you can get them for BH rail with chairs on wooden sleepers or concrete sleepers for FB rail. Thats the track I'd use in 00 if I weren't to build from individual components. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 I am in the same place. Have had Peco S/L on last couple of layouts and want to go one better for my new layout with more realistic looking track. At one of the exhibitions I picked up a C&L points kit which includes everything you need to get started including track gauges, and gave it a go. It was surprisingly straightforward to build (a lot of the hard work is done for you including the V and the switch rails) and I think it looks great when complete. Have not actually laid it in position as yet (too many things on at the moment) but did have some issues with wagons hitting the guard rails which was simply due to incorrect siting of these. I am now at a juncture as to whether to continue with these kits or try something harder... I wish somebody did flatbottom point kits... Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 I wish somebody did flatbottom point kits... Matt Templates can be had http://colincraig4mm.co.uk/#/templates/4532603468 and he has done some properly cut crossings and guards before but I don't see them listed for sale on the site. Possibly worth a mail though to check.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 I think its good you are looking for something a little different from the main RTR types that are available, and as said you can make turnouts for not very much if you do all the work or spend lots on kits where the V's and switch rails have been prepared. Building turnouts is quite simple but as with everything you will get better with practice. I would start with a copperclad kit as they will allowbe easier to adjust during/after building. And they can always be used in the fiddle yard. Well build chaired track looks fantastic, and there are many fine examples to be found within this site, equally I have seen many fine layouts which used the copperclad method, after ballasting painting etc and viewed from a normal distance are not blighted by the fact that they have no chairs on the turnouts (there are many fine layouts using RTR track). You could buy a pack of rail, a pack of PCB strip and a couple of plans (might evenget a set of roller gauges)from C&L or Marcway for the price of a kit, and have a go. If you do not get along with building turnouts the rail will come in handy by threading off cuts of flexi track sleepers on to them to form into longer lengths (use the off cuts for scenic efects and wagon loads). The great thing about this hobby is that its great fun having a go, and you might even enjoy doing it. There is nothing like seeing a loco go through a turnout you have built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 EM36 Point kit (copper clad) 36" radius LH/RH. NS or PB rail. £4.99 Has any on ever use this track and what is it like to build? All the best Darren Darren Sorry I did not answer all of your questions. Yes they are easy to build (I think most of us cut our teeth on SMP), buying the parts is even cheaper, you will need a full set of EM gauges (not just roller gauges) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted May 14, 2010 Author Share Posted May 14, 2010 HI All First of all i would like to thank you all for getting back to me . Well it looks like i will be going for C+L track,but i have read on here that some rolling stock can bounce on the chairs? All my rolling stock is new ,the oldest locos i have are Bachmann Ivatt 2-6-2 tanks ,all the rest of my stuff is new . The next thing i would like to ask is this; as i do not want to have to rewheel my stock ,would thier track be ok with my locos? All the best Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 HI All First of all i would like to thank you all for getting back to me . Well it looks like i will be going for C+L track,but i have read on here that some rolling stock can bounce on the chairs? All my rolling stock is new ,the oldest locos i have are Bachmann Ivatt 2-6-2 tanks ,all the rest of my stuff is new . The next thing i would like to ask is this; as i do not want to have to rewheel my stock ,would thier track be ok with my locos? All the best Darren In a word -yes. Good luck Darren. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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