Gas Works

[Windjabbers]

I have a corner of a layout which I can fit something in. I am thinking of putting a gas works. I just need to get a feel for the volume of traffic that it would requres assuming that it is a gas works for a mediume size town?

 

Best Wishes

 

David

[rovex]

There was a series of articles on gasworks in one of the model press a couple of years ago and I built a small one on my old layout. This is also a good link on the things that you'd find on the average gasworks http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/12-linind/gasworks.htm.

 

I think you'd have quite a hell of a lot of coal going in, as they used an awful lot, as well as Coke and coal tar amongst other things going out.

 

Rovex

[Coombe Barton]

They needn't be large. The gasworks at Ashburton took coal in by horse and cart having offloaded it in the station yard. It existed for 30 years before the railway was built, so cartage must have been horse powered. initially.

[R A Watson]

Ashburton gas works was just across the road from the cattle dock (where the caravan sales depot is now) so coal carrying was probably quite easy.

 

It was replaced as a production unit by the slightly larger works at Buckfastleigh when a main was laid between the two villages in the thirties.

 

Earlier it probably refined naptha gas from peat cut on the moor, a much shorter journey than that of coal, which could only have come by road. with the nearest mines in North Somerset or South Wales, on roads which then did not realy exist in a form we would understand today.

 

The gas holders at Ashburton were still in use when we refurbished the water tank and installed electric pumping there about 1967/8 as part of the Dart Valley plans to use Ashburton goods shed as the main loco works before the road building (A38) severed the line in 1970.

 

I believe the depot was taken out of use with the introduction of North Sea gas in the seventies.

 

Wally

[The Stationmaster]

Our local gas works served a town of c.9,000 people and was about 400 yards from the nearest rail siding although I believe it was built after the railway had opened. Accordingly all its coal was carted from the station and anything sent out by rail would had to be carted to the station for loading.

 

The works closed many years ago (in the 1950s) and although I can access some records of rail traffic it is not easy to connect them with the gas works. Outwards 'coal & coke charged' varied between 100 and 700 tons p.a between 1900 and 1938 and averaged around 250 tons - that would most likely have come from the gas works but might have included some reforwarded coal. It declined sharply from the mid 1930s on and was down to a single wagonload in 1937 (that was most likely reforwarded coal I would think).

 

Inwards is far more difficult as it would also have included domestic coal traffic and coal to other industrial users - it too changed substantially over the years being down to an average of just over 3,000 tons p.a. in the 1930s but that marked a recovery from about 2,200 tons p.a in the 1920s.

[Major Clanger]

Some back of the envelope calcualtions I did for the Hull MRS's Cullingden layout came to the gas works needing 1 ton of coal per head of population per year. One ton of gas coal burnt gives 0.7T coke (that amount surprised me too), 12 gallons of tar and 32 gallons of ammonia liquor. The figure for domestic coal also came out at 1 ton per head per year, so with a 50,000 population, 300 working days per year and 16T wagons, this means a 21 wagon coal train every day, and corresponding empties. Also 6-7 coke wagons out per day (less in practice, as some would be sold locally). Also 170 gallons of tar (roughly 1 ton) and 440 gallons (2 tons) of ammonia per day, or one tanker for each every week.

[Bernard Lamb]

You can even add a 2' gauge feeder line as per Berkhamsted.

I'm sure there must be some Casserley photos of it around somewhere.

Bernard

[rovex]

If you wanted a smaller gasworks, you could buildone that had been constructed to supply an inductrial site, rather than a town. Some industrial complexes did have there own supply.

 

Rovex

[R A Watson]

At the risk of becoming a bore, dont forget most of the coke was burnt on site to heat up the next lot of coal,to make more gas and so on infinitum. One of our local pubs is the Thistle Park Tavern with the name due to being built next to the largest gas works in town on the site of the ash tip, thistles were the only thing to grow there!

 

Tar was supplied to the local authority for use in road repairs (tar macadamising) or other chemical makers, as were most of the other by products.

 

So, plenty of coal in by rail, but not so much out as it was sold locally, hence the aparent low export figures.

 

Wally

[Danemouth]

When I worked for the old Wales Gas Board I remember one of the older men telling me about the local school bringing in school children to smell the tar or one of the other by products it seems that it helps those with bad chests:(

 

So I line of children coming to or from the retort house might be a nice feature, certainly different! But imagine the H & S crowd today

 

Dave

[jamie92208]

A lot of stations had their own gas works. At Richmond (N Yorks) the retort house still survives as a store and was the basis for the one on my Long Preston layout. If you are interested I could post some pics. We also put in a narrow gauge line but in reality it was fed by horse and cart from the station goods yard. Interestingly the carter for the gas works was different to the village coal merchant so that gives you an excuse for 2 different horse drawn coal wagons in the goods yard.

 

Jamie

[Dave777]

There was a series of articles on gasworks in one of the model press a couple of years ago

 

Yes, you're right, Model Rail, I'm fairly sure, a three part article. The chap did a good job of scratch building the entire complex... only for the Skaledale set to come out mere months later! No doubt he derived more pleasure from his version though.

 

Good article if I recall, explained how the process worked and likely amounts of traffic, what rolling stock to use, etc, etc. Probably worth tracking down if you want to do a pucker job.

[flyingsignalman]

Yes, you're right, Model Rail, I'm fairly sure, a three part article. The chap did a good job of scratch building the entire complex... only for the Skaledale set to come out mere months later! No doubt he derived more pleasure from his version though.

 

Good article if I recall, explained how the process worked and likely amounts of traffic, what rolling stock to use, etc, etc. Probably worth tracking down if you want to do a pucker job.

 

 

I'm pretty sure the articles were by M Walshaw and appeared in the British Railway Modelling magazine; I can't remember which issues though.

[Dave777]

You could well be right there.

 

I did some homework because I thought it unlikely that I would have bought several BRM issues in a row - using the Model Rail mag index I found this:

 

Structure Gasworks Feature Article Andy McMillan Part 1 Issue 91

Structure Gasworks Feature Article Andy McMillan Part 2 Issue 92

Structure Gasworks Prototype photographs Issue 94

Structure Gasworks Feature Article Andy McMillan Part 3 Issue 94

Structure Gasworks Feature Article Andy McMillan Part 4 Issue 95

 

That looks about right for when I was subscribing so that's one set of articles at least - looks like Keith may have another too.

[flyingsignalman]

I have 2 articles by Michael Walshaw, the first is "Westport Gas Works" and is in Dec 2003 BRM.

He appears to use Swanage gas works as his protoype/inspiration.

The 2nd is in Aug 2004 and is part 3. I don't appear to have part 2 so I can't say which issue it was in though May 2004 is mentioned in "Tower scrubbers-a postscript" at the end of part 3.

[pH]

You can even add a 2' gauge feeder line as per Berkhamsted.

I'm sure there must be some Casserley photos of it around somewhere.

Bernard

 

Yes - here are a couple.

[Poggy1165]

As I recall Peter Denny also wrote extensively on this subject many years ago in the Railway Modeller in connection with the gas works he built for Buckingham. There were two or three articles, and I recall one of the things he included in the model turned out to be too 'modern' for his era - 1907 I think.

[DonB]

This thread had me climbing into the loft, where I recalled a text-book "inherited" when the previous incumbent retired and I moved into an office crammed with ancient books.

"The Text Book of Gas Manufacture" it says on the cover, dated 1902...Absolutely useless for modelling purposes! no plans of a typical Gas works or buildings, a few photos of internal bits and pieces, mostly as-manufactured, not in use. And no details of what goes in or comes out! The book goes for pulping this week!!!

 

Shipton on Stour had a small Gas Works alongside the station, but it does not appear to have had its own siding. I've never seen pictures of these works.

[Windjabbers]

Some back of the envelope calcualtions I did for the Hull MRS's Cullingden layout came to the gas works needing 1 ton of coal per head of population per year. One ton of gas coal burnt gives 0.7T coke (that amount surprised me too), 12 gallons of tar and 32 gallons of ammonia liquor. The figure for domestic coal also came out at 1 ton per head per year, so with a 50,000 population, 300 working days per year and 16T wagons, this means a 21 wagon coal train every day, and corresponding empties. Also 6-7 coke wagons out per day (less in practice, as some would be sold locally). Also 170 gallons of tar (roughly 1 ton) and 440 gallons (2 tons) of ammonia per day, or one tanker for each every week.

 

Thanks for this. By the 1950's the coal in would be in 16t mineral wagions. But what would the coke traffice be in? Would the tar be in the rec tanks> and what sort of tanks for the ammonia?

 

Also would eveything arrive togther in one train. Or would the caol/caok and the tanks be worked in diffrent trains?

 

Best Wishes

 

David

[Major Clanger]

Thanks for this. By the 1950's the coal in would be in 16t mineral wagions. But what would the coke traffice be in? Would the tar be in the rec tanks> and what sort of tanks for the ammonia?

 

Also would eveything arrive togther in one train. Or would the caol/caok and the tanks be worked in diffrent trains?

 

Best Wishes

 

David

 

The coke is going out in a mix of ex-PO 7 plankers with extension raves, and 20T steel hoppers. The tar in rec tanks, but I've not seen any photos yet to convince me on the ammonia wagons. As Cullingden is set at the end of a branch from the MR at Bingley, the loaded and empty coal wagons will have their own train from Normanton. Coke and ammonia will be tripped to Hunslet, the coke for forwarding to Sheffield, but I've no idea where the ammonia would have gone.

 

In fact, being a chemist by profession, I would like to know more about how chemical traffic was handled by rail, but there doesn't seem a lot of information out there.

[RussellD]

Rather than start a new topic, I will add to this one. I am surprised nobody has mentioned the Gasworks Museum at Fakenham, which is the only surviving complete gas works in the country. The website is http://www.fakenhamgasmuseum.com/ but it is not open that often. I visited it a few weeks ago and would recommend people go there if they are looking for photos and detail needed to construct a model as it is a good example of a small country town gas works. However, despite the railway line being about 200 yards away, the gas works never had a siding and the coal had to be unloaded at the station, loaded into a truck and driven to the gas works and then loaded into the retorts, very labour intensive! I have pictures from my visit which I can send if anyone is interested.

[jamie92208]

Rather than start a new topic, I will add to this one. I am surprised nobody has mentioned the Gasworks Museum at Fakenham, which is the only surviving complete gas works in the country. The website is http://www.fakenhamgasmuseum.com/but it is not open that often. I visited it a few weeks ago and would recommend people go there if they are looking for photos and detail needed to construct a model as it is a good example of a small country town gas works. However, despite the railway line being about 200 yards away, the gas works never had a siding and the coal had to be unloaded at the station, loaded into a truck and driven to the gas works and then loaded into the retorts, very labour intensive! I have pictures from my visit which I can send if anyone is interested.

 

That arrangement was quite common for smalller gasworks. The tonnage of coal didn't justify a private siding so it would be carted round. On my last model of Long Preston the gas works was alongside the line but below a bridge and the though only 20 yards from the line the coal had to be taken about a mile to reach it as it was the other side of a stream as well. Hellifield and Settle were the same.

 

Jamie

[meil]

Fakenham is what Hornby reproduced in model form.

[wagonman]

Rather belatedly taking issue with Andrew Hartshorne's figures, research I've done into gasworks in Somerset dug up a useful set of Liquidator's accounts for the Cheddar Gas Co in the 1930s. Assuming for convenience a population of c4,500 people (current figure is about 5,000) the works consumed 450 tons of coal a year or about 1 ton of coal per 10 people. That is about one wagonload a week carted from the station to the works. The tar by-product, such as it was, went out in barrels. Perhaps the "ammoniacal liquor" went out in carboys or something similar?

[jessy1692]

You can even add a 2' gauge feeder line as per Berkhamsted.

I'm sure there must be some Casserley photos of it around somewhere.

Bernard

 

Or like the Harrogate gas works, rt models make kits for a couple of the beefy locos

JAmes