Not that old, not all that collectible...

[Steve K]

I noticed that there was a swapmeet just up the road from here last weekend, and it was one where I'd picked up bits and bobs in the past, so I paid a quick visit. I find there's always something worth a second look at these events, and there's a kind of satisfaction in finding something cheap and interesting - call it retail therapy if you like, but on a tight budget.

 

Anyway, I had my eye on a couple of things that fitted my interests, but then I spotted this:

 

 

I'd not seen one before, and at only £12, I thought it a bit more interesting than a Hornby 06 for similar money! OK, it won't necessarily beat the 06 in a drag race, but then, what will?

 

So there you go: 10 imaginary points for anyone who can spot what it is (the model, not just the prototype it's based upon), and bonus points may be awarded if you can list its many howling errors, but only if you're not too rude! Other items in the pictures may or may not provide clues...

[Arthur]

 Isn't it from the old Playcraft range, mean't to be a North British 0-4-0DM?  Most obvious error is running on a bogie, probably from a Playcraft NB diesel Hydraulic.

 

Arthur

[jonny777]

I knew that it rang a bell from my dim and distant past,

 

http://www.playcraftrailways.com/P838.htm

 

Thanks Arthur for stirring the old grey matter - this was the 'standard' of a fair number of models about 50 years ago.

[Steve K]

Isn't it from the old Playcraft range, mean't to be a North British 0-4-0DM? Most obvious error is running on a bogie, probably from a Playcraft NB diesel Hydraulic.

Quite right, Arthur, and the buffet/brake behind is from the same manufacturer. More on that and my other recent buys in the appropriate thread.

 

As you say, the lack of coupling rods is fairly glaring (unless NB made a version without them?), but to me, it also looks a bit - well, big. It seems to dominate the 33, though I'm not too sure how big the real thing was.

 

Apart from all that, it's a lovely model! I don't care, I think it's cute...

[Ramblin Rich]

Steve - is it possible you've got one of the Lima HO calss 33s there - which could explain th eshunter's relative size?

[Steve K]

...running on a bogie, probably from a Playcraft NB diesel Hydraulic.

The horror. The horror. What a thought - I've managed to release a couple of those things back into the wild recently. It's not right that such things should be in private hands.

 

Steve - is it possible you've got one of the Lima HO class 33s there - which could explain the shunter's relative size?

Rich, there's no "possible" about it - it's definitely an HO 33, not OO. I own several of the things, and I was only trying to fool you a little by showing one with the later-style couplings, rather than the more common "dunny seat" arrangement. The thing is, though, that the Playcraft shunter is also meant to be HO, which is why I say it looks a bit big. On an OO layout, ironically (given Playcraft's largely doomed foray into an unwanted British scale), it would probably look OK.

['CHARD]

The body scrubs-up not too badly, although it is of indeterminate size, slightly small for OO, too large for HO. I - wait for it - detailed and repainted one (body only) as D2705, but - greater horrors, it had started life as a clockwork loco, so I literally performed keyhole plastic surgery on that cabside

 

I can't imagine why, but it did find a buyer on the 'bay and I was quite satisfied with the whole episode - paying practice at repainting, fettling, detailing, and numbering. A very obscure model of an even obscurer prototype.

[Steve K]

... slightly small for OO, too large for HO...

In other words: slightly frustrating! If only the cab were the height of the bonnet (and the rest of it in proportion, natch), it would be a perfect complement to the rest of my modest British HO collection. As it is, it's probably about 1:80, and because some industrial shunters are quite small anyway, it would doubtless look a little better on a 4mm layout*. Mmm... I still like it, not least because it's quite unusual to see one around. Maybe I'll keep it unless and until I spot another Roco EE shunter at a swapmeet!

 

For those who are interested, here's the bottom of my little NB machine:

Does that shed any new light on the provenance of the chassis?

The gears remind me of an early LEGO Technical set I had in about 1978...

 

 

*And let's be clear: I'm not about to purposely start a 1:80 collection (3.8mm/ft, anyone?)

[halfwit]

I remember a steelworks layout on the exhibition circuit some years back that used a couple of these shunters fitted onto DJH 02 (beginners kit) chassis - looked nice and ran sweetly.

The owner told me that DJH wouldn't sell the chassis seperately so he had to buy the entire kit just for the running gear. Expensive!

I have one of these lurking in my mothers loft which I had a go at detailing many years ago. Perhaps its time to re-evaluate it? Or flog it...

[Foulounoux]

Our first trainset was a Playcraft TEE set - with the good old broken nose electric loco.

 

Loco had working head and tail lights which for a 7 year old was a joy.

 

it was set up at 4am on Xmas morning and we were so enthralled that parents didnt even tell us to go back to bed.

 

sad day when it got thrown out

 

 

Colin

 

 

 

[Neil]

Here's a photo of mine, culled from the old version of RMweb. It was given to me and at the time had the Playcraft mechanism replaced with that from a Hornby smoky joe, I replaced that with a scratchbuilt effort, which in turn now requires rebuilding.

 

[Il Grifone]

*And let's be clear: I'm not about to purposely start a 1:80 collection (3.8mm/ft, anyone?)

 

Plenty of this about!

 

Late 50sTrix*, Rivarossi (all their own UK/European as opposed to 'made for' (Pocher, Trix Express)**, early Fleischmann....

 

'Scale' is not really something you can apply to the earlier Trix Twin. It was claimed to be H0, but clearly isn't.

 

** Some of their last products were H0.

 

The Playcraft/Jouef shunter (most of the range really) is one of the 'less accurate' *** models around.

 

*** To not use a stronger term!

[Blobrick]

I ve seen an identical drive set up on a Playcraft Class 21/22/29 or what ever it was back in the late 70s. Weighed a ton and ran like a cement mixer!

[Steve K]

Here's a photo of mine, culled from the old version of RMweb. It was given to me and at the time had the Playcraft mechanism replaced with that from a Hornby smoky joe, I replaced that with a scratchbuilt effort, which in turn now requires rebuilding.

 

I do like that - a lot!

 

The replacement chassis makes the whole thing rather more convincing, not to mention some proper "industrial" weathering.

 

If this loco is to form part of my British HO plans, I will need to think about lowering it a few mm, and short of b***ering about with the bodyshell - which is nice enough - a new chassis (possibly with slightly smaller wheels) shoved under the body might do the trick. Or, I bite the bullet and sell it on here as an OO loco.

[eastworld]

Judith Edge Kits do a kit for the loco this was meant to be based on, and another similar derivative. See : http://www.ukmodelsh...ithedge/kit/121

 

Stu

[plarailfan]

I read a review of one of these models a while ago, and it said they were OO gauge models, but, with the buffers set at HO scale distance apart.

(It might have been on a British HO scale website, where I saw the review, not sure)

[65243]

I've seen one of these converted to run on P4 . It ran very nicely and was one of the favoured BR period shunters for the colliery on the East of Scotland Group's Bonnybridge layout.

 

Tony

[BernardTPM]

Having compared it against the drawings in 'Fleet Survey no.7' it comes out very close to 4mm scale. Sizes given are Playcraft (4mm):

Height of bonnet - 23.5 (25)

Height of cab ---- 27.5 (29)

Width of bonnet - 23 (22.5)

Width of cab ---- 32 (33)

Length over all bodywork - 76 (77)

Length of cab ------------ 29 (29)

I'm assuming that the extra thick 'footplate' area is trimmed away to become part of the bonnet sides and that the 'cheat' to create the front window opening is removed (which shortens the lower part of the cab to match the top half). There is some scope to blend up to about 1mm/40 thou." plastic strip into the lower part of the model without upsetting the proportions - indeed it will probably help them. With the height amendment you can call it 4mm scale above the footplate (fictional below, of course!).

When new in 1955/6 the numbers were 11703-7, later D2703-7. Similar locos were built as industrials and for the Army, though most had the earlier cab shape of 11700-2.

[Steve K]

Thanks, Bernard, for that in-depth study. As I half-suspected, then, pretty useless for a 3.5mm/ft layout, but with potential for 4mm. I may have to get it out of the box, stare at it lovingly (!) one last time, and then see if anyone here thinks it's worth £10 off their hard-earned...

[n0rthstar]

A vague recollection at the back of my mind, probably from some long-lost model mag, is that Jouef-Playcraft modelled to a scale of 3.8mm to the foot, which works out around 1:80.

[Il Grifone]

Another of those 'elastic' scales.

 

It depends on the age of the model. Later Jouef models were 3.5mm scale (or 4mm if British prototype).

 

The earlier ones were more hit and miss.

 

A Jouef/Playcraft 24½T mineral wagon to hand is 33mm wide and 84mm long and clearly looks undersize side on against a Dublo 16T wagon (not perhaps the best example of 4mm scale I know!). The buffers are H0 spacing, which looks silly with the 00 width!

 

Conversely their SNCF type E open with sliding roof look perfectly at home with a 1/80th Rivarossi type E. Again we have H0 spaced buffers in both cases!

 

Their BR coaches were short in length and overwidth - to get the overscale wheels in - which is why we have 00 of course There are 3 possibilities dead scale P87, overscale width of vehicles or underscale track gauge (or any combination of these).

['CHARD]

Found this when I wasn't looking for it, out of interest...

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=22469

[Old Tearaway]

I've aquired a couple of these little beasties and even have a picture of the original prototype D2705.

 

I have 2 x green electric and 1 x rarer blue with double arrows BR logo.

 

If measured up against scale diagrams it become clear that the locomotive isn't actually HO scale, but damned close to OO scale at 3.9mm. to the foot.

 

My blue version is on a corrected scratch built inside frame chassis into the original power bogie with Romford wheels with a K's motor and gearbox running 50:1 drive ratio and even has room inside for a Zero One module and lead ballast weights. Obviously I've fitted correct sized large disc buffers and 3 link couplings.

 

The other 2 x green ones retain the original Jouef "Bread Maker" can drive and run quite well. Of the 2 x green ones, one has already had the Playcraft triang Mark.III. coupling installed on the rear and this one has a Lanal coupling on the front, which some previous idiot has filed away the "bump" which allowed the hook to be locked to one side to allow loose shunting. The other green one had a Lanal front couping and a Dublo / Peco coupling on the rear. This one is now 3 link with scale buffers and used on my foundry exchange sidings for shunting.

 

The brass wheels have the nice ability to (1) run on even the most dirtiest of track that nothing else will and (2)collect up all the dirt in doing so, so make good track cleaners.

 

The tractive effort is not fantastic and appropriate to such a small loco but cramming in sheets of lead into the hood helps improve this. The motor itself requires no servicing and is ultra reliable unless "serviced". It is a "leave the bloody thing alone" type of unit.

 

The pickups are simple and easy to clean plus tough. Despite the apparent space for a layshaft and pinions to give 4 wheeled drive, the loco never had this fitted. However it would improve prefromance considerably if installed.

 

Only 9 of these engine were built for the Scottish Region of British Railways with 5 serving Glasgow's North goods yard. All were sold off to private ownership in the late 1960's and the majority went to Blue Circle Cement.

 

There is an aftermarket chassis correctlon kit for this loco made in white metal. however how hard is it for an experienced modeller to cut off the offending outside frames and install a scratch built simple brass inside frame and different motor drive, eh??!!

 

Best feature of this little engine is the wasp stripes as in its day this was the first propriety RTR loco with wasp stripes to hit the market.

 

Now that Hornby own Jouef (well rescued it from extinction) and intorduced the old Jouef EE Type 4 1CO-CO1 Class 40 as one of their own in 2015, could we possible hope that Hornby will do a similar job with the D2705 (with all the errors fixed) in the future??

 

I've been trying to find the other Jouef 0-4-0 shunter that was actually from a British prototype, the Hunslet industrial 0-4-0 diesel mechanical / diesel hydraulic shunter which were purchased from the company by SNCF (Smelly, Noisy & Completely French) in the 1950's. Jouef did the hydraulic version but a bit of reworking and error fixing could produce the other variant for UK industrial use.

 

Very hard to find, as hard, in fact as finding a lawyer in heaven.....

[Old Tearaway]

I conducted some testing on Sunday on a Triang Series 3 layout layed out on the linving room carpet whilst conducting historical model railway reinactment (not playing trains!!). 

 

For comparison I had Triang's D2907 0-4-0 DM shunter of 1961 solid wheel vintage plus 1959 to 1961 triang open axle wagon stock, a diamond layout circuit of Series 3 track using 2nd radius curves, with a R.175 level crossing, a passing loop and 3 x sidings plus headshunt powered by a 1963 Triang RP3 power controller.

 

The Jouef D2705 0-4-0 is one I bought last year and has had the Lanal coupling at the front "modified" (buggered up) by somebody who didn't understand how a Lanal coupling works. Lets just say that it is now useless if I want to use it in "loose coupling mode" and fly shunt other Lanal fitted stock as the hook offset lock has been removed. The rear coupling has already had the Playcraft Triang coupling converter fitted. The loco is not additionally weighted and all the existing weight comes form the massive "bread maker" motor it is fitted with and the brass drive wheels.

 

When tasked to haul 1 x van, 1 x R.16 brake van and 6 x open wagons the Triang D2907 struggled to haul the train around the curves but wheelspun very quickly up to speed before loosing innertia part way into the next corner.

 

Surprisingly the Jouef D2705 had no problems doing the excact same task and it was difficult to even judge if any wheelspinning was taking place as it sped around.

 

A Triang "Jinty" of 1960 vintage also had no problems hauling the train.

 

Next came the shunting experiments.

 

The task was to marshal all the open wagons into a siding and withdraw a rake of 4 x Triang 1959 LMS / BR bogie bolsters from one siding and couple them up to a Triang 12 wheeled Battle Space bomb carrier before hauling them back onto the mainline and pushing them back onto the waiting van and brake van. 

 

From the start Triang D2907 had no problems hauling out the bolsters and even collected the heavy bomb carrier before wheel spinning its way onto the mainline and pushing the trian back to the van and brake van. However it was incapable of doing much more than polish the track when tasked to haul this load. 

 

Jouef D2705 was behaving quite well and was easily controllable during the shunting process, requiring very little throttle to move and could even creep along. Unlike D2907 it didn't wheelspin with the train out onto the mainline and easily pushed the wagons onto the van and brake van. It did, however wheelspin away round the circuit and relied on innertia to make it far enough around each curve onto the next 4 x section straight to pick up speed. Eventually, after a few circuits, it became rather erratic in running over point frogs and closer inspection showed that whilst the rear drive wheels were spinning themselves clean and shiny, the front set had managed to pick up and collect every piece of dirt they could find from the rails, which is why I like to use Jouef locos as track cleaners which is a job they seem to excel at. 

 

To sum up, despite its diminutive size the little Jouef D2705 out performs the Triang D2907 from the same date of some 50 years ago.

 

Yep, I was surprised as well!!

[Colin_McLeod]

Interesting results Old Tearaway. Still sounds like playing trains though☺☺. And why not? That's what they were made for.