asmay2002 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 It would be an interesting topic, given that the GWR loco firebox was designed specifically to use Welsh coal I always wondered how they coped with the 16xx pannier tanks on the Dornoch branch, Many GWR locos did not run on Welsh coal and got on perfectly well (e.g. those based in the Midlands at places like Tysley and further North up to Birkenhead). The firebox was not really different from the LMS ones. To burn other coal optimally you can change the firebars in the grate to let more or less air through but I'm not sure this was necessary especially on low powered locos working well within their limits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted December 5, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2012 apols if these have been posted before, a clan in strange places old oak 11/12/63 http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.co...els/7307206824/ and at paddington 8/12/63 (mentioned in the comments of the first link above) http://www.flickr.co...57625877622705/ (several pics either side of this one) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 10, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 10, 2012 Many GWR locos did not run on Welsh coal and got on perfectly well (e.g. those based in the Midlands at places like Tysley and further North up to Birkenhead). The firebox was not really different from the LMS ones. To burn other coal optimally you can change the firebars in the grate to let more or less air through but I'm not sure this was necessary especially on low powered locos working well within their limits. IMHO I think the coal is more relevant on powerful locos on longer trips. I.e. A King and a Princess are nominally the same power, however the Princess needed a much larger grate area to cope with the conditions on the longer journeys on the LMS with coal which was more likely to clog the grate. If the LMS only went 200 miles instead of 400 no doubt Stanier could possibly have replicated the King on the LMS with satisfactory results. The Princess also needed a larger boiler as it was probably required to produce maximum power for longer periods. Keith Keefer: looks like the Clan has a 12A (Carlisle) plate, it's also reasonably clean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Many GWR locos did not run on Welsh coal and got on perfectly well (e.g. those based in the Midlands at places like Tysley and further North up to Birkenhead). The firebox was not really different from the LMS ones. To burn other coal optimally you can change the firebars in the grate to let more or less air through but I'm not sure this was necessary especially on low powered locos working well within their limits. 56 GWR Dean Goods requisitioned by the WD and left behind in France after Dunkerque became SNCF class 030W. They worked on the Northern and Western regions till they were either returned to Britain (and promptly scrapped) in 1949 or sold to UNRRA to work in China. Though French railways did import Welsh steam coal I doubt if there was much of it around during the occupation (and certainly not for a humble goods loco) so they probably had a diet of the compressed coal dust and clay "Briquettes" and dusty slack that passed for loco fuel there (see.http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/peclegg/sncf/articles/article_2003_09.html) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Hi All, My avatar locomotive's exploits between Kings Cross and Doncaster & Grantham have been mentioned as have No. 5000s stint on the LMS (after which the LMS tried to buy some Castles) but there are a few not yet mentioned: 1 USA modellers could do worse than have a nice model of No. 6000 KGV. (You can add a Duchess and Royal Scot to that to as well). HO scale though... 2 How about a Star on the LNWR? No. 4005 Polar Star was on exchange with the London North Western Railway in 1910. 3 Therefore there was LNWR Experiment Class No. 1471 Worcestershire operating out of Paddington... I claim the earliest reference yet prize! Watch someone come up with a trial Stephenson did with Rocket after I type these words! At least it won't be on the GWR at that time... All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 15, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 15, 2012 Hi All, I claim the earliest reference yet prize! Watch someone come up with a trial Stephenson did with Rocket after I type these words! At least it won't be on the GWR at that time... All the best, Castle You obviously haven't heard about the experiments in 1830 when Rocket was re-gauged temporarily for trials on 7 foot track as a feasibility study on a new line being mooted to Bristol! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryD1471 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 A1s at Crewe? - No problem! "The West Coast Pacifics" by Clay and Cliffe has a photo of 60152 there in May 1953. Apparently Polmadie sent 60152/60/61 south at various times in 1951/2/3 on the Up Postal to Crewe and they returned on a Birmingham to Glasgow passenger. Yes and you should add that 60159 was also amongst that group as well. I therefore have justification for my models of 60160 and 60161 on my WCML layout. Also I have seen a photo of an A2/3 running on the Scottish section of the WCML too, in 1965, having been allocated briefly to Polmadie. Presumably they were trying to cover for the ex LMS class 8s which had been prematurely (and stupidly) withdrawn the previous year. As an addendum to the A1s on the WCML, I have recently seen an article stating that A4 60012 was also allocated to Polmadie for a while. Can't find the article or remember where I saw it, but that would be another interesting model for me. Does anyone know of any other foreign locos on the WCML? I'd love to be able to justify an A3 or a V2 (or anything else out of the ordinary!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'm surprised no one has referred to the early 50s reports of a BR(SR) USA tank tried out in East London (LMR) and the north-west, Fleetwood (ISTR). . Bearing in mind their (apparent) propensity to run hot, getting one from Eastleigh to Blackpool via Devons Row would have been a logistical nightmare. Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryD1471 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 A late friend of mine photographed an L1 outside Evesham Road Crossing Box. He told me that it had been there in connection with Road Learning for the new connection from the SMJ towards Honeybourne. Regarding Stanier Pacifics at New Street, they never used to appear until Worcester Street bridge was rebuilt c1961 for the Ring Road scheme and the electrification, so I would think that there was a problem with the clearance there. Charles I used to spot at New Street pre 1959 and never saw a Duchess or Princess. I think your comment is spot on about the Worcester St bridge, because they certainly appeared afterwards. The tale may be apocryphal, but I have heard that 6235 went to New St for a naming ceremony and clouted this very structure! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Does anyone know of any other foreign locos on the WCML? I'd love to be able to justify an A3 or a V2 (or anything else out of the ordinary!) Would this be of interest? - http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=28148 . (And the pilot wasn't too common there, either!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I claim the earliest reference yet prize! Watch someone come up with a trial Stephenson did with Rocket after I type these words! At least it won't be on the GWR at that time... All the best, Castle Not the oldest event, but possibly the oldest loco to wind up a long way from home - L&MR "Lion" found its way as far south as Bradford-on-Avon in the early 1950s! Edit: Sorry,just realised this doesn't count as the criteria is for service trains.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2014 I used to spot at New Street pre 1959 and never saw a Duchess or Princess. I think your comment is spot on about the Worcester St bridge, because they certainly appeared afterwards. The tale may be apocryphal, but I have heard that 6235 went to New St for a naming ceremony and clouted this very structure! The first reference to Semis on the Wolverhampton - Euston trains I know of was 46248 on 6th December 1960. The story of CoB hitting Worcester St bridge was a part of New St legend, but I don't know if it is true. The loco definitely was there on 1-3 June 1954 for the Centenary exhibition alomg with Hardwicke and the Kirtley 2-4-0, two royal Saloons, a Midland coach and an LNW coach. http://www.photobydjnorton.com/NewStCentenary.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2014 Whilst reading an old copy of Train Illustrated I noticed that Tyseley's Collett Goods 0-6-0 No. 2257 somehow got to Northampton and on 22 December 1960 was seen working the 10.30am freight from Northampton to Wolverton and return. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 13, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2014 The first reference to Semis on the Wolverhampton - Euston trains I know of was 46248 on 6th December 1960. The story of CoB hitting Worcester St bridge was a part of New St legend, but I don't know if it is true. The loco definitely was there on 1-3 June 1954 for the Centenary exhibition alomg with Hardwicke and the Kirtley 2-4-0, two royal Saloons, a Midland coach and an LNW coach. http://www.photobydjnorton.com/NewStCentenary.html Could an "oversize" loco have arrived from the north (Monument Lane) end? People had claimed to have seen at least one Princess arrive on trains from the north (I never did) and they would have been even more oversize than a Coronation. (same height, 6" longer & a fraction wider) The rumour amongst spotters was always that the south exit was the one that restricted large locos from New Street but even that may have been one of those "legends" that circulated without any basis in fact! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 Monument Lane tunnel was OK, also I think the Midland side of the South Tunnel. The problem on that side was the platform curvature. 46227 did clearance tests and some adjustments were made when one of the Eustons was terminated at New St c1963, and the empties went to Kings Norton. The Worcester St bridge and South Tunnel was a right rathole. Years later the HSE stopped us going in there under traffic. I put in a lockout system for the Down line to enable patrolling to be done without a full possession. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryD1471 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Monument Lane tunnel was OK, also I think the Midland side of the South Tunnel. The problem on that side was the platform curvature. 46227 did clearance tests and some adjustments were made when one of the Eustons was terminated at New St c1963, and the empties went to Kings Norton. The Worcester St bridge and South Tunnel was a right rathole. Years later the HSE stopped us going in there under traffic. I put in a lockout system for the Down line to enable patrolling to be done without a full possession. Thanks for that. You've just reminded me of another tale which I was told many years ago by someone who used to live in Northfield. He claimed he saw a Duchess heading north through Northfield station and immediately jumped on a bus to get to New St. He was just in time to see it leave (from the Midland side), but didn't know which one it was. Does anyone else have any recollection of this because I have failed to corroborate this? There was a well-documented sighting of 46220 on St Philips Marsh shed (c 1963) after arriving at Temple Meads with a Manchester-West of England express (via Severn Tunnel), but I have no idea how it returned to its home metals. Might this have been the elusive Duchess that would have had to climb Lickey & pass through Northfield to get to New St? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hopefully this link leads to a pic of 70051 at Eastleigh shed in 1963...if it doesn't you'll have to take my word that it was there! http://www.delcampe.net/item.php?language=E&id=218507847 Clicking on the photo enlarges it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I've had a look through my books about the naming of Stanier's pacifics. J.W.P. Rowledge in 'The LMS Pacifics' (David & Charles 1987 ISBN-0-7153-8776-8) states: Naming ceremonies for some of those named after cities were held as follows:- 6235 City of Birmingham 20th March 1945. Etc... The Irwell 'The Book of the Coronation Pacifics Mk2' (Allan C. Baker, Irwell Press 2010 ISBN 978-1-906919-17-7) states in a caption: Most but not all of the engines that were named after cities were involved in civic ceremonies in the cities in question. These were attended by officials of the LMS, the City fathers and other worthies with, of course, the press. In the case of this engine (6235) the event took place at Birmingham New Street Station on 20th March 1945, some time after the engine was built (there was a war on) although it carried nameplates from new. However it was at the Birmingham event that the city heraldic device was presented and mounted over the nameplates. Although hardly proof, neither mention any mishap involved with the ceremony. The only engine I know of that objected at its naming was 6251 City of Nottingham, which dived on to the floor afterwards on leaving from the Lincoln end of the station, causing considerable delays to other traffic. This does get a mention by Mr Rowledge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 There was a well-documented sighting of 46220 on St Philips Marsh shed (c 1963) after arriving at Temple Meads with a Manchester-West of England express (via Severn Tunnel), but I have no idea how it returned to its home metals. Might this have been the elusive Duchess that would have had to climb Lickey & pass through Northfield to get to New St? I can't find anything regarding a Coronation through Northfield, but the visit of 46220 to Bristol was with a late running Glasgow portion which missed its onward train at Crewe on 7th February 1963. According to Modern Railways it returned light to Pontypool Road then continued light to Shrewsbury on 9th February.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Whilst reading an old copy of Train Illustrated I noticed that Tyseley's Collett Goods 0-6-0 No. 2257 somehow got to Northampton and on 22 December 1960 was seen working the 10.30am freight from Northampton to Wolverton and return. Not saying for certain, but I would suspect that Stratford-Upon-Avon GW shed being a sub of Tyseley had a duty, or two, on the old S&MJR after the closure of the Town shed. 2257 having a possible turn to Blisworth, from the likes of Clifford Sidings or Kineton MOD, a few oddities at Northampton had turned up that way, but most had been Banbury allocated locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 14, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2014 I've had a look through my books about the naming of Stanier's pacifics. J.W.P. Rowledge in 'The LMS Pacifics' (David & Charles 1987 ISBN-0-7153-8776- 8) states: Naming ceremonies for some of those named after cities were held as follows:- 6235 City of Birmingham 20th March 1945. Etc... The Irwell 'The Book of the Coronation Pacifics Mk2' (Allan C. Baker, Irwell Press 2010 ISBN 978-1-906919-17-7) states in a caption: Most but not all of the engines that were named after cities were involved in civic ceremonies in the cities in question. These were attended by officials of the LMS, the City fathers and other worthies with, of course, the press. In the case of this engine (6235) the event took place at Birmingham New Street Station on 20th March 1945, some time after the engine was built (there was a war on) although it carried nameplates from new. However it was at the Birmingham event that the city heraldic device was presented and mounted over the nameplates. Although hardly proof, neither mention any mishap involved with the ceremony. The only engine I know of that objected at its naming was 6251 City of Nottingham, which dived on to the floor afterwards on leaving from the Lincoln end of the station, causing considerable delays to other traffic. This does get a mention by Mr Rowledge. According to Wikipedia (and other sources): (4)6235 was built pre-war and carried it's name from new. It was the first of the second batch of red streamliners and the first built with a double chimney. Like many locos it received black during the war and was thus when officially named in New St. in 1945 It was also the first to have the streamlining removed in 1946 and acquired smoke deflectors at the same time, although it retained it's black livery for a while afterwards. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 56 GWR Dean Goods requisitioned by the WD and left behind in France after Dunkerque became SNCF class 030W. They worked on the Northern and Western regions till they were either returned to Britain (and promptly scrapped) in 1949 or sold to UNRRA to work in China. Though French railways did import Welsh steam coal I doubt if there was much of it around during the occupation (and certainly not for a humble goods loco) so they probably had a diet of the compressed coal dust and clay "Briquettes" and dusty slack that passed for loco fuel there (see.http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/peclegg/sncf/articles/article_2003_09.html) At least one Dean Goods worked the Cairnryan Military Railway during and immediately after WWII, other loco classes here were the usual 2-8-0 austerities and LNER J50 tanks Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 Not saying for certain, but I would suspect that Stratford-Upon-Avon GW shed being a sub of Tyseley had a duty, or two, on the old S&MJR after the closure of the Town shed. 2257 having a possible turn to Blisworth, from the likes of Clifford Sidings or Kineton MOD, a few oddities at Northampton had turned up that way, but most had been Banbury allocated locos. Tyseley 2251s were also used as Bank Pilots through to Earlswood Lakes, particularly when the train engine had to take water at Stratford after being stuck on the Block on a Saturday afternoon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 From 1963 Eastleigh works started overhauling steam locos from the LMR with it's main customers being locos from the 2, and 5 shed areas. Such as;- https://www.flickr.com/photos/30937/9096090603/in/set-72157633361116260 Passenger locos found themselves on running in turns to Bournemouth, freight locos on turns to Wimborne. edit, I thought I'd been on this thread before, see post#140 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 At least one Dean Goods worked the Cairnryan Military Railway during and immediately after WWII, other loco classes here were the usual 2-8-0 austerities and LNER J50 tanks Jim SR 'Z' class 0-8-0Ts worked there, too. (Edit - if we're getting into wartime moves, that opens up all sorts of possibilities!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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