Colin parks Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 I seem to remember ( the cells are nearly all gone) that corridors were of varnished wood on a lot of EMU's at least until the early '70's when I moved from the Southern Central section to the GW (W). A big step up, No retreat from here. The highlight of my train travel in the late 60's (I'm not being to precise, to protect the guilty), was a school trip from Horsham to Paris and return using the scum link Newhaven- Dieppe ferry for a week. Riots included. Cheers SS Hi SS, I'm sure riots would have broken out if you had been on the Newhaven-Dieppe ferry for a week! Seriously though, looking again at my one reference picture last night, I would agree on varnished (ply?) wood for the corridor side of the partitions and sliding doors. There seem to be varnished panels on the inside surfaces of the external doors too, but that might be hard to reproduce and not very visible, thus not worth the effort. (Taking the same view as David Jenkinson on interior detail.) I do think that the arched tops to the backs of the seats will need to be modelled. That will be fun. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Work started on the solebars and footboards last night. A piece of 60 thou.plastic sheet plus steel ruler were employed to set the footboards at the right level. The trailer coach has had its third class compartment narrowed, with the addition of an extra partition. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrynick Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Very nice, I hope that you'll bring at least one along on Sunday to the show ? gerrynick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Very nice, I hope that you'll bring at least one along on Sunday to the show ? gerrynick OK gerrynick, I'll be the one at the Aberaeron show (Sunday 14th August) with a brown cardboard shoebox under my arm then! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portchullin Tatty Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Great to see the unusual being tackled Colin. Keep up the good work as it is interesting seeing these unfold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Great to see the unusual being tackled Colin. Keep up the good work as it is interesting seeing these unfold. Many Thanks, A compliment indeed coming from a P4 modeller like yourself Porthcullin Tatty. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Well, more has been done to the HAL but..... I have grave doubts about the accuracy of the bodies which I have made. The error came to light when measuring up for and the marking out of roof details. The luggage compartment of the model has an internal length which doesn't tally with the measurements on dasatcopthorne's posted drawings. On closer inspection of those drawings, the compartments in third class should be a scale 6'3" between the partitions and the model is only that to partition centres. This results in the third class compartments each being 0.5mm too short. Not a great deal, one might think, until the error is multiplied by the number of compartments in the motor coach times the thickness of the partitions i.e. 3mm in total. So now there is an over-wide panel between the luggage compartment doors and the nearest third class compartment window. No wonder I ended up having to add a false partition in the trailer coach - athough that is only out by 1.5mm. Strangely, the first class compartments are correct, so the trailer coach doesn't look too bad. On the bright side, the roofs are now on and the excellent Southern Pride lamp tops have been fitted - along with the equally excellent Branchlines ventilators. At last, the headstocks are on too, so the roof conduits can be added, running down the inner ends. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I have to say 'hats off' to you mate. What an excellent build. You must have the patience of a saint, but how rewarding to see how it's turning out. As to your dimensional error, who is really going to notice? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Although its out by about a millimetre or so, no ones probably going to even notice, because it wil be overlooked by the amazing work and detail that youve put into building this unit! NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Colin, if this were a kit I'd think 'lovely build of an EMU with bags of character' but the fact that you've scratch-built these units, well… just stunning! Kit and RTR manufacturers make bigger 'mistakes' in much more prominent places. Yours are inside so who's going to notice? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Colin, I am prepared to accept much bigger compromises in my models just to get something reasonable running. Your effort is superb and no one here would even have known about the errors until you pointed them out in the first place!! I love this unit of yours. Still, if you are totally dissatisfied with it and all those terrible, terrible errors, I might be persuaded to take it off your hands!!! Keep up the great work. I think I can safely speak for all here when I say we're all looking forward to seeing the finished product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Ah yes, but we'll know, and be able to say, loudly, at exhibitions, "mmmmm, pity about how wrong those partitions are!!" . Seriously though Colin, the quality of work in this model reminds me of some of David Jenkinson's miracles with plasticard in the '60's & '70's, truly inspirational! Just remember to tell Bachmann about the error when they come to measure it up for a r-t-r version. Cheers, Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Hi Colin, Brilliant, nuff said!! Cheers, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Thanks for all the above replies concerning the "error". I will carry on with the model, as it has got too far to change now. I might have been tempted to re-cut the sides if the roofs had not already been fixed on permanently. But as they are solidly in place, its gone past the point of changing anything now. It did occur to me that perhaps the actual units as built, differed from the G A drawing. Revisions of designs and changes did occur (as with the BR-built Shark, for example). One other possibilty is that the draughtsman responsible for the 4mm drawings assumed that the 2 HAL DMBT design was the same as those of the two 4 LAVs built during WW2. Those drawings are identical - apart from having one less periscope on the 4 LAV. There is a good picture of a 4 LAV, which seems to show the position of the windows/compartments as per the plans/model of the 2 HAL DMBT. I have checked the trusses that have been made for the DMBT and they line up with the compartment doors as I think they ought to. So perhaps I will never get to the bottom of this. Now it's out with the tools to get on with the chassis next. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 superd colin!! I've always been a great believer in the virtues of plasticard, & your workmanship shows just what can be achieved Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Well, more has been done to the HAL but..... I have grave doubts about the accuracy of the bodies which I have made. The error came to light when measuring up for and the marking out of roof details. The luggage compartment of the model has an internal length which doesn't tally with the measurements on dasatcopthorne's posted drawings. On closer inspection of those drawings, the compartments in third class should be a scale 6'3" between the partitions and the model is only that to partition centres. This results in the third class compartments each being 0.5mm too short. Not a great deal, one might think, until the error is multiplied by the number of compartments in the motor coach times the thickness of the partitions i.e. 3mm in total. So now there is an over-wide panel between the luggage compartment doors and the nearest third class compartment window. No wonder I ended up having to add a false partition in the trailer coach - athough that is only out by 1.5mm. Strangely, the first class compartments are correct, so the trailer coach doesn't look too bad. On the bright side, the roofs are now on and the excellent Southern Pride lamp tops have been fitted - along with the equally excellent Branchlines ventilators. At last, the headstocks are on too, so the roof conduits can be added, running down the inner ends. Colin Hi Colin. I don't have much of 'my own' info on 2 Hal as they had gone by the time I returned to trains and modelling. However, on 8.03.84 I managed to measure a few bits on 023 at Fratton and I have the following. As a reference to accuracy (sometimes I didn't bother about half an inch) I measured the distance between compartment bulkheads as 6' 3 1/8". The measurement I took inside the guards van was 13' 1 5/8". Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 A few pics I took at Fratton may help with underframe etc. Check out the buffers overlapping the buffer beam. In my notes I recorded that the front body panels had a 1" cutout over the tops of the buffers to clear the buffer body. MB wheels were 3' 7" and the usual 3' 6" trailers. There are a few other items on my notes that you haven't got to yet. Would you like a scan of them? Dave ps. Just went to load photos and can't find how to do it in this new software version of RMweb so will look tomorrow to see how and post the pics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Found it. Just a couple of views of ex-2Hal DM. I did measure the underframe trussing if it helps but only on the DM as I never saw a Driving Trailer. As usual, anything you need, let me know. Lovely work. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 A few pics I took at Fratton may help with underframe etc. Check out the buffers overlapping the buffer beam. In my notes I recorded that the front body panels had a 1" cutout over the tops of the buffers to clear the buffer body. MB wheels were 3' 7" and the usual 3' 6" trailers. There are a few other items on my notes that you haven't got to yet. Would you like a scan of them? Dave ps. Just went to load photos and can't find how to do it in this new software version of RMweb so will look tomorrow to see how and post the pics. Hi Dave, Thanks for the wealth of information that you have posted. I am resigned to the fact that the model does indeed have narrower-than-prototypical compartments - oh dear! The drawings you have posted tally with the dimensions you have taken. The model HAL has a luggage compartment which scales out at 13' 10" - exactly over-length by the thickness of six partitions. The panels between (third class) compartment windows are consequently too narrow. I had noted that the buffers were overhanging the headstocks and deduced that the bodywork of the cab fronts will need some cut-aways. It did take a while to work out what was going on, but I realised there was no way the headstock could be placed further forward to accomdate the buffer. At least that detail is correct! With all the above discrepancies, the small matter of the motor bogie wheels being a scale inch too small in diameter will be disregarded. The trussing that I have made will be re-checked before fitting, but that might be best left as it is to match the errant sides. Post any information on 2 HALs that you can Dave, All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrynick Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 So, if the roofs are on, which glazing method are you using ? Very nice work, by the way. gerrynick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 So, if the roofs are on, which glazing method are you using ? Very nice work, by the way. gerrynick Hi Gerrynick, So that's what you look like! A very good question about glazing. I hope to improve on the glazing of the previous two 2 HAPs where the compartment and corridor window glazing was a force-fit into the window apertures. This has caused a slight distortion of each piece of clear cobex on those models. This time, I have incorporated a shallow groove above the windows along each side. The theory is that the glazing for each compartment will cover the door and windows to the left and right. The groove above will make it far easier to secure the glaze material, as it will need no glue on the top edge. (This has been a difficult area to reach on the EMU models I have scratch-built before, as the roofs are permanently attached.) Once this glazing is fixed, I intend to place extra fixed panes (i.e. those that should be flush) onto the first layer, held by gloss varnish. I have tried making up flush glazing by laminating two layers of cobex held with super glue, but it is a bit hit and miss for the larger windows, as the glue sets before spreading evenly. I might try the same technique with some other kinds of glue, but the varnish method seems the most reliable and controllable at present. By laminating two layers of glazing I would also be able to use waterslide transfers for "First Class" and "No Smoking" signs the right way round without them having to be on the outside of the windows. We shall see what happens when I get to that stage. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrynick Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 There is an article in MRJ no.206, by Barry Norman. In it, he suggests using a solvent called "DL-LIMONENE", available from Wizard Models. This is a slow-evaporating solvent that should be better for both glazing and laminating. For REALLY flush glazing, you might try making the sides from clear acrylic, and then painting as per necessary. A good (and cheap) source of perspex is old number plates, but, you'll need to get the backing off ! keep up the good work gerrynick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 There is an article in MRJ no.206, by Barry Norman. In it, he suggests using a solvent called "DL-LIMONENE", available from Wizard Models. This is a slow-evaporating solvent that should be better for both glazing and laminating. For REALLY flush glazing, you might try making the sides from clear acrylic, and then painting as per necessary. A good (and cheap) source of perspex is old number plates, but, you'll need to get the backing off ! keep up the good work gerrynick Hi gerrynick, Thanks for the tip about the solvent. I shall get in touch with the supplier and see what glazing material it would work with. I did try clear styrene, but it tends to crack around the area of the cut, being much a much harder and more brittle material than the opaque sheets are made of. I don't think I would go down the route of painting clear plastic sides, although dasatcopthorne has produced a very nice 2 HAL using a similar method. My own goal is to achieve the flush-glazing of styrene sheet-sided coaches, as I find styrene sheet very easy to work with. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrynick Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I was thinking more along the lines of drawing the sides in full colour in Cad, including door line, handles, etc. Then printing them on transfer paper for applying to clear sides. This would probably be more viable in the teeny weeny scales, however ! gerrynick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matloughe Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Colin that is some fantastic work! Please tell me you are taking orders for such a magnificent scratch-built model. I shall be watching with very keen interest - I have never seen a HAL in real life only in SR Photos I always thought them quite bland like the first production 4 SUBs the 'Queen of Sheba' ones especially compared to the flat Bullied front end. But looking at how this has formed into such a realistic looking model is making me reassess my original thinking. Good show sir! ~ Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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