2 HAL

[dasatcopthorne]

I have just looked again at the posted picture of the drawing of the setting out of the elipse. The major axis is marked as 8'8", so I suppose that is also the width of the roof.

 

Colin

 

Colin

 

The dome width is 8' 8" 15/16.

 

Dave

[dasatcopthorne]

Hi Frank,

 

No I hadn't seen the photo before. The picture shows the seam on the cab which runs around just above cantrail level. I still can't think of a way of reproducing this to scale.

 

I shall come to the trussing eventually, so thanks for the dimensions.

 

As for the cab dome dimensions, I can make out that the section A-A on the drawing is marked as 4' 5.5" (although the half inch is a guess). That is what I have based my cabs on. The leading edge of the cab to the point of the domes measures 18mm. The fact that the sides are not quite as long as the solebars nearly caught me out when setting out the cab angles! As for the width of the HAL at cantrail level, perhaps Dave can tell us. I think that Bulleid stuck with the width of 8' 11" for these units. The Brian Golding drawing is not clear on this as the plan view is drawn at neither top nor bottom of the bodywork. Certainly the cab is the same width as the rest of the body.

 

I can't imagine anyone making a RTR one of these units. At first, I was under the impression a HAL was like a 2 BIL, but with different windows and cab. It's far more complicated than that.

 

Colin

 

 

I have a drawing for the trailer and here is a shot of the inner end dimensions.

 

I've got the roof conduit drawing as well. More later.

 

Dave

 

 

[Colin parks]

I have a drawing for the trailer and here is a shot of the inner end dimensions.

 

I've got the roof conduit drawing as well. More later.

 

Dave

 

 

 

Excellent information Dave.

 

I can now finish profiling the roofs. I had sanded them pretty close to width, but stopped - just in case. Now the roofs can be fished for width. (Ceptic had said they were 8' 8" minus the " water strips" so thanks to him too).

 

I think I will regard the cab width as 8' 9" i.e. 35mm. The water strips will be hard to get to a scale thickness, perhaps .010" plastic strip will do. I look forward to seeing more drawings, it certainly helps - I don't want any more '2 HAP cab side-window' situations!

 

 

Colin

[Ceptic]

Many thanks also, from me, Dave, for the drawings and reading the dimensions. My Mk.1 eyeballs ain't what they were.

Much appreciated.

 

What l'm aiming to do, once all the info' is gathered in, is to draw the various SR / BR Coach /EMU Car cross sections out on to a single, downloadable page and place it in the 'Southern Railway' / 'Southern Electric' forums in the 'Special Interests' section.

 

Cheers, Frank.

[Colin parks]

"It's a 2 HAL Jim, but not as we know it!" - 2 HAL bodies yes, but no cabs yet:

 

 

Progress has been rather slow of late, with door bangs and hinges to fit. A great deal of cogitating went on with regard to the next step. Logically, it was to make the inner ends and bulkheads at the backs of the cabs.

A 2 HAL's main characteristic is the quirky front end -so it had to be got right.

 

I looked at photos of HALs and set to work making a pattern out of 60 thou. plastic sheet. It wasn't that simple, there was some advance

planning to do: The position of the motor bogie mounting meant that one bulkhead had to have a cut away and the the trailer coach one had to be 1mm shorter than the sides to allow it to sit on the floor. See below:

 

 

Using 60 thou. plastic sheet will allow for the next step which is shaping of the sides where they join the cabs. The cab side is in line with the main side at the bottom and at cantrail level. The whole lot will have to line up just right or the angle of the cab front corners will be thrown out. (No pressure there then.)

 

The sides and roofs now have a gap between them to be filled by the roof gutters. These will be added to the bottom edges of the roof sections with 20 thou. strip all round. This will have to be filed flush along the sides and a 1mm strip added to reproduce the water strip. Under the cab roof, the 20 thou. strip will left to protrude just enough to look like the thinner capping strip used there.

[Allegheny1600]

Ya sas Colin!

Excellent work, I'm enjoying watching immensely and only wishing that I had the patience and fortitude to persevere with such a project!

Keep up the great work,

John E.

[5Bel]

HI Colin,

Progress has been rather slow of late

 

 

 

 

I wish my progress was this slow!! Really excellent work. Looking forward to seeing those cabs. After doing the Hap's and now the Hal how about a Tin Hal for your next project. Again excellent work.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[Colin parks]

HI Colin,

 

 

 

 

I wish my progress was this slow!! Really excellent work. Looking forward to seeing those cabs. After doing the Hap's and now the Hal how about a Tin Hal for your next project. Again excellent work.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

 

Hi Ian,

 

I suppose progress is a relative term! I'm having a night off from actual modelling to consider how to get the cabs fit to the body convincingly. I also think I have made the cab fronts a little too low, so they might have to be redone.

 

I'm not so sure about a Tin HAL. They were very similar to a 2 HAP in body shape, but what puts me off is how to produce seamless join between side and roof. There would be no water strip to hide my usual bodging in this area!

 

Colin (edited for typo errors)

[Colin parks]

Ya sas Colin!

Excellent work, I'm enjoying watching immensely and only wishing that I had the patience and fortitude to persevere with such a project!

Keep up the great work,

John E.

 

Efharisto Poli John!

 

What is being done here is not that hard. Mind you, I did attempt a scratch-built 2 BIL when I was a teenager and gave up. Perhaps it was the difficulty of forming the roofs from solid blocks of laminated styrene sheet or that the sides were cut from 30 thou. sheet (too thick to work).

 

It has to be said that I am picking "do-able" prototypes for these scratch-building projects and I would not try making anything with panelled sides. Prototypes with windows featuring bolections, such as the 4 COR, would be rather tricky too (though not impossible by following David Jenkinson's methods). As for a scratch-built 4DD, good luck to anyone who manages that! (Kelly)

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

More sanding and fettling of the bodies and roofs.

 

 

The gap between the roof and body will allow for a 20 thou. strip of plasticard to be added to the bottom edge of the roof. The water strip is deeper on most of the side, which means complications later on!

 

 

Just as a precaution, the joints of the cab have been reinforced. The cab bulkhead partition conveniently supports the joints too.

 

 

What fun it was getting this rounded profile right - four times. The near-vertical strip will help locate and strengthen the cab side to main body joint.

 

 

A sort of mock-up of the front end with the roof perched on the body - the gab between cab front and roof will be less than this picture suggests. The cab front is mounted on a piece of 20 thou. sheet which is: a. to maintain the angle of the front and b. - I cut the cabs too short. It will all be trimmed back. There is still a bit of work to do on that roof's front edge I notice.

 

Edit: I'm relieved to see that the cab side's edge is parallel to that locating strip on the body!

[Mucky Duck]

That's starting to come alive now Colin. Exquisite work. Maybe I'll have the courage to scratch-build an EMU one day. What will you be using for door handles with this one?

[Colin parks]

That's starting to come alive now Colin. Exquisite work. Maybe I'll have the courage to scratch-build an EMU one day. What will you be using for door handles with this one?

 

Hi Mucky Duck,

 

The door handles and commode handles will be Southern Pride brass etchings, as used on my 2 HAPs. The 2 HAL design seems to be a curious cross-over between Maunsell Bulleid styling. The 2 HAL commode handles are of the type used on later Bulleid EMUs (being longer than drawn in the 'book', but I spotted that before drilling all the holes in the sides!)

 

Colin

[Ceptic]

Indeed, Muckyduck...Exquisite work there, Colin,.. Well Done.

 

Thanks for showing us the way.

[Colin parks]

More work on the cab fronts.

 

Tonight the "eyebrows" have been added above the front windows and some tiny pieces (which now look enormous) also placed to represent the hinges on the L/H window. A scribed line around the L/H windows represents (over-use of this word, but I have lots of bits of plastic representing something or other on this HAL) the window frame. The rectangles of plastic sheet between the windows are to become the route indicator mounting plates. Funny, they looked so thin, but to the camera they look like thick slabs. There will be more sanding to do to get all these parts acceptably thin once to solvent has vented off.

 

 

On the inside, the cab components have had 20 thou. sheet laminated on for strength. To produce a stronger joint, the vertical edges have rebates, with the fronts fitting between the cab sides.

 

There are one or two thin beading strips to add and holes for the MU fittings to be drilled. These fittings will be made and painted separately, so it's nearly time to assemble the cabs onto the bodies - that might be fun.

[Pete Harvey]

Great work Colin.

 

Pete

[Colin parks]

Great work Colin.

 

Pete

 

 

Thanks Pete.

 

You might even get to drive the HAL at Derby next year - if I ever finish it!

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Things have got a bit further. The cantrails will take some careful work to get right though. They have been left over-width for now, this gives too much of an overhang in this picture. The camera never lies.

 

 

At least the cabs are on and it looks as though everything is going to line up when joined to the roofs. The route indicator boxes also need some tidying up, but at least I did have the forethought to make sure they will accomodate the Branchlines etched brass stencil number plates. (Unlike what happened when I made a Kirk 2 BIL some time back).

[Colin parks]

Some small steps (even tiny phosphor-bronze ones!) have been made with the 2 HAL this week:

 

The cab fronts have been sanded, the roof cantrails and water strips thinned down and a start has been made on the inner and outer end details. The MU cables and connectors are next on the list. Also the cab interiors will have to be painted before the roofs go on or I will never be able to get access to them. The inner ends of the roofs will need to be perfected when affixed, plus there should be a thin moulding running just under the roof edge on the inner ends.

 

 

Colin

[dasatcopthorne]

Hi Colin.

 

Coming on nicely.

 

I'm off on hols soon and didn't want you to start the roof wothout these.

 

Best of luck.

 

Dave

[dasatcopthorne]

Colin

 

OOps

 

Forgot to say there are variations on the number of vents on the roof.

 

Mostly one !! per compartment not two.

 

Dave

[Colin parks]

Colin

 

OOps

 

Forgot to say there are variations on the number of vents on the roof.

 

Mostly one !! per compartment not two.

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

Thanks for all the information on the roofs. I had made a start on marking out the roof fittings, but will now double-check with your drawings before proceeding further. I had already decided on modelling the HAL with one vent per compartment. Indeed, I have not seen any pictures of 2 HALs with two vents per comp. - perhaps the design was carried over from the 2 BIL but altered by the time of construction.

 

The course and position of the conduits is now clear. The only thing that isn't certain is what kind of ventilator was fitted for the toilet. It appears to be some kind of flat vent unlike the rest.

 

Anyway, I am on holiday now for two weeks, so the HAL project will rest until August.

 

Colin.

[Colin parks]

A few pictures of progress since the holiday.

 

I have proceeded in a slightly different way to the 2 HAP builds by not attaching the roofs until all the interior work is complete. Sounds obvious, but that is not how I did it before!

 

The cab fronts have most of the MU fittings and the windsceen wipers now. The cab interiors have been painted as there would have been little chance of doing this once the roofs are on.

 

 

Strips of plastic have been added to the top of the inner sides. These serve to hold the top edge of the glazing in place and provide slots in which to locate the partitions. The corresponding strips along the lower edge of the side locates the partitions - as well as holding the floor at the right level.

 

 

The trailer coach has its compartment assembly now. This was a matter of guesswork with regard to the window arrangement on the corridor. I have only one photo showing the corridor in any detail.

 

 

The driver's compartments have been reduced 3 mm in length as a result of placing the 60 thou. bulkhead to support the side where the cab joins the rest of the coach body. Even with hindsight, I can't see a better way of constructing the bodywork for this design of EMU. It isn't too apparent, but has resulted in the third class compartments adjacent to the cabs being rather over-spacious. I will have to add extra partions to ammend this, or the seats will be set too far back from the windows.

 

 

Another interesting question is what colour were the 2 HAL interiors in BR days? One author mentions a "grey undercoat" colour for the compartment wall surfaces. I seem to think (based on a distant memory of childhood travel by rail) that they might have been painted cream by the late 60's. If anyone can shed light on this, please let me know.

 

Colin

[woodyfox]

Colin,

 

Great work! The 'minty' green for the cabs is spot-on shade wise. I believe the interiors (passenger/brake) were a lightish grey colour. I remember listening to drivers talking about driving this stock along with 'mary's' - 'nelsons' etc (took a while to grasp!) and they always griped about the small button type pedestal seat in the cab that was screwed up and down for height adjustment.

 

Jumping ahead... ...do you have any ideas on the underframes? As far as I know all southern electrics from conception upto 1951 EPB stock varied little and were based around the 750v feed to line switching gear for power phases. The stock varied so little in design over the years that I was told that some of the equipment etc fitted to VEP/CIG stock when new came off 1920/30's vintage stock!

 

 

Regards

 

Stu

[Colin parks]

Colin,

 

Great work! The 'minty' green for the cabs is spot-on shade wise. I believe the interiors (passenger/brake) were a lightish grey colour. I remember listening to drivers talking about driving this stock along with 'mary's' - 'nelsons' etc (took a while to grasp!) and they always griped about the small button type pedestal seat in the cab that was screwed up and down for height adjustment.

 

Jumping ahead... ...do you have any ideas on the underframes? As far as I know all southern electrics from conception upto 1951 EPB stock varied little and were based around the 750v feed to line switching gear for power phases. The stock varied so little in design over the years that I was told that some of the equipment etc fitted to VEP/CIG stock when new came off 1920/30's vintage stock!

 

 

Regards

 

Stu

 

Many thanks for your comments Stu.

 

I think I shall go with the pale grey interior colour as you suggest. It did occur to me that the sliding doors and panels on the corridor side mgiht have been varnished wood. It is hard to tell from the picture on p.94 in Brian Golding's 'A Pictorial Record of Southern Electric Units'.

 

As for the underframe, I ordered parts and detailing packs from Branchlines. These are common to the 2 BIL. I have some Ratio 8ft steam bogie mouldings too. These are nice mouldings, but the spring hangers are 'D' shaped, which will have to be changed for round ones. As for this being a scratchbuilt EMU, here is a selection of parts bought in to complete the model. (The white label packets in the top left of the picture are, however, parts made by me and kept safely packed until needed). I have taken a gamble on buying two Brachlines motor bogie castings, one of which will be converted to a trailing pick-up bogie (somehow!). Also in the picture are parts from Southern Pride, namely the door handle etches and turned lamp tops.

 

 

I shall be tackling the solebars next, which will be made up from plastic strip. The trussing will be soldered up from brass like the previous 2 HAPs. I have noted the difference between the trusses on the DMBT and the DTCL - one thing that the aforementioned book did get right.

 

Colin

[Siberian Snooper]

I seem to remember ( the cells are nearly all gone) that corridors were of varnished wood on a lot of EMU's at least until the early '70's when I moved from the Southern Central section to the GW (W). A big step up, No retreat from here. The highlight of my train travel in the late 60's (I'm not being to precise, to protect the guilty), was a school trip from Horsham to Paris and return using the scum link Newhaven- Dieppe ferry for a week. Riots included.

 

Cheers SS