number6 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 That coupling arrangement is really interesting - am going to have to give that a go. Presumably the longer buffer, when in place, it takes part of the 'pushing' load? I was bemoaning the problems of getting multiple units to run in line - especially when being propelled by a power bogie at the rear - on the VEP thread the other day. Ans I can see how keeping the bogies in line is half the job [in 00 at least]. Fabulous piece of modelling - equal parts neat, ingenious and inspiring. R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 That coupling arrangement is really interesting - am going to have to give that a go. Presumably the longer buffer, when in place, it takes part of the 'pushing' load? I was bemoaning the problems of getting multiple units to run in line - especially when being propelled by a power bogie at the rear - on the VEP thread the other day. Ans I can see how keeping the bogies in line is half the job [in 00 at least]. Fabulous piece of modelling - equal parts neat, ingenious and inspiring. R Thanks for your praise R. The coupling as pictured is the design same as the one on my 2 BIL. The 2 HAP models I made did not have this type. However, on the 2 HAL I have used Ratio bogies. These have a great deal of side-play on the pin-point axles. There is no way I can see of improving the fit without dismantling both bogies, so it is proving more difficult to keep the unit in line when being pushed. (Just like the Hornby 4 VEP, I hear). I would have preferred to use Kirk bogie mouldings for the SR 8ft bogies, but they are unavailable at the moment. The Kirk mouldings are a bit dated. but make up into a very solid, reliable unit and present no problems when fitting 26mm pin-point axled wheels. All in all, the 2 HAL coupling addresses problem of keeping things in line, but with so much axle side-play, it's still a bit random. A new buffer will help, and yes, it will take the buffing force. I always put a dab of oil on the buffing plate of the motor coaches to reduce friction (just like the real thing!). I think Bachmann's 4 CEP's fixed links are the best way of linking coaches from a practical point of view, but are rather obtrusive. They do keep everything in line though. My method with the wire would not work so well on units with pairs of buffers between coaches unless the buffers were sprung. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'm tempted to see if its possible to pass the power between the coaches using the same bar. If you want any Kirk bogies for future projects I'm pretty sure I have a fair number knocking around in the spares box. Happy to stick them in the post if it means sitting back and watching more units emerge! They seem to be the same from both a Kirk Maunsell 3 set and the BIL. I prefer the Ratio ones as they have better relief detail to the bogie side - although would agree they have a lot of slop built in... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Hi Colin, The coupling looks excellent, so simple. I might try the idea on my Cig.The Roxey bogie looks good, I am using the Kirk one on my Bil, only because I have made it up, but will look to using the Roxey version in the future. Hopefully the NNK power bogie will be available again soon. Looking forward to seeing the Hal finished. Cheers for now, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted September 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 18, 2011 It's a cracking piece of plastic engineering... certainly inspiring. Maybe an upgraded 2HAP might be on the cards for the winter? Maybe it's time to call Charlie... I think his sides are back in stock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'm tempted to see if its possible to pass the power between the coaches using the same bar. If you want any Kirk bogies for future projects I'm pretty sure I have a fair number knocking around in the spares box. Happy to stick them in the post if it means sitting back and watching more units emerge! They seem to be the same from both a Kirk Maunsell 3 set and the BIL. I prefer the Ratio ones as they have better relief detail to the bogie side - although would agree they have a lot of slop built in... Hi number6, I don't know about using the bar as a contact power supply. The loop is and could not be, a tight enough fit on the lug. That is why the buffer is needed. Mind you. if the metal buffer was to to receive one polarity to a metal buffing plate on the motor coach and the wire the other, you might be onto a winner. The only risk would be a sort of 'gapping' over reverse curves etc. if the buffer or wire lost contact. As for Kirk bogies, I would be interested. In my experience, the Ratio mouldings needed just as much work to get a reasonable bogie as the Kirk ones did. The sideplay in the Ratio bolsters was so great that I had to fix them with solvent. That still left the over- wide side frames though. I do agree that the tooling of the Ratio mouldings is better. Given a plentiful enough supply of Kirk bogies, who knows what might be next?! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Hi Colin, The coupling looks excellent, so simple. I might try the idea on my Cig.The Roxey bogie looks good, I am using the Kirk one on my Bil, only because I have made it up, but will look to using the Roxey version in the future. Hopefully the NNK power bogie will be available again soon. Looking forward to seeing the Hal finished. Cheers for now, Ian. Hi Ian, I would counsel caution in using my method on a unit with regular intermediate buffing gear. The wire I use is .016" plain guitar string. It's cheap and pretty resilient. The Roxey bogie has come up well, but again, a lot of work was needed on it. Perhaps I'm an old stick-in the-mud, but the Kirk kit does the job well too. The Roxey kit has more potential for someone more experienced with metal model construction. One thing that has worked out well on the Roxey version is that only one side of each transom is soldered to the sideframe. This gives a slight amount of spring to the bogie - a bit like the method of bogie construction used by David Jenkinson. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 As always, it's a joy to watch true modelling taking (1st.) place. Just a thought though, but how about using Bachmann's SR 8' w/b bogies ?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 As always, it's a joy to watch true modelling taking (1st.) place. Just a thought though, but how about using Bachmann's SR 8' w/b bogies ?. Hi Ceptic, I had considered Bachmann's product, but the brake blocks don't line up with the wheels. The Hornby SR bogies look best of all but I don't think they are available as a separate item. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 More pics: The emergency brake tell-tale boxes still need a little filing. The red 'bits' will go on after painting. This picture shows the HAL on a 40" curve, 0.5mm clearance- plenty! A shot of the Roxey bogie from underneath. The detailing will be tidied up. There is a rudimentary pair of bolsters. The gap at the R/H end of the transom can be seen here. The transom is made of some square brass tube, hence the cut-aways for the wheel flanges. The shoe fuse holders are now made and attached to the solebars rather than the bogie. Finally, the 'albino' HAL makes it into platform two. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Hi Colin, The Hal looks superb, can't wait to see it painted. Cheers for now,Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted September 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2011 Hi Colin, The Hal looks superb, can't wait to see it painted. Cheers for now,Ian Painting it will spoil it in a perverse way IMHO, like an etched kit, you'll not be able to see all the work that has gone into it. Cracking job though whatever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted September 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2011 Absolutely lovely work there Colin. It's looking superb. It's so good to see that scratchbuilding skills haven't yet disappeared! It reminds me of the quality work of the late David Jenkinson and Teddy Francis in the 70s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 That is an inspirational piece of work, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 Hi Colin, The Hal looks superb, can't wait to see it painted. Cheers for now,Ian Thanks Ian, I can't wait to see it painted either! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 Painting it will spoil it in a perverse way IMHO, like an etched kit, you'll not be able to see all the work that has gone into it. Cracking job though whatever. Thanks Enterprisingwestern, I'm not too worried about painting over the work as such. There are so many different materials used by now on this HAL, it will be a relief to get the paint on. It's not like painting a nice, shiny brass kit! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 Absolutely lovely work there Colin. It's looking superb. It's so good to see that scratchbuilding skills haven't yet disappeared! It reminds me of the quality work of the late David Jenkinson and Teddy Francis in the 70s. Thanks RE6/6, I'm never going to get anywhere near David Jenkinson's standards - or speed for that matter. I'm not sure I've heard of Teddy Francis. Did he write ay books or articles? Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 Just the buffer to go now. I've closed the gaps between body and headstock by tightening the clips on the inside of each end (visible in the last photo). (Edit: I mean the gaps are visible, not the clips!). It's nearly as hard to get the bodies off as a 4 CEP now! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted September 20, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2011 Thanks RE6/6, I'm never going to get anywhere near David Jenkinson's standards - or speed for that matter. I'm not sure I've heard of Teddy Francis. Did he write ay books or articles? Colin Hi Colin ERH (Teddy) Francis was a master of plasticard coach construction in the '70, he had several articles on GW coach modelling, particularly Super Saloons in the Railway Modeller back then. He went on to become Dart Castings and then Shire Scenes after that Cheers SS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 The end is in sight, well, the end of the trailer coach in this case! The new buffer has been made and installed. I had hoped to use a light coil spring, hence the threaded end to the shank of the buffer. Of course said spring has disappeared. The second option as shown here, uses an inverted 'U' shaped piece of .009" guitar string. located and glued into a hole in the conveniently placed chassis corner block. To stop any tendency for the piece of guitar string to rotate in its super glued hole, a retaining clip has been fashioned from 0.5mm brass wire. This arrangement works very well (famous last words etc.); the buffing action is soft enough to avoid derailments, but hard enough not to fully compress under the load of the trailer coach when pushed. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 The HAL still needs glazing, but it's up and running! Suffering from build-fatigue, I opted for the Modelmaster set of transfers for unit 2638 to save time. There was the usual nerve-wracking process of removing the carreir film from the transfers, which makes them look 100 per cent better. It's usually the carrier film of the 'Load 2 tons distributed' transfer that is hardest to remove, but this time one driver's door kept me amused for quite a while before the letters all lined up again. The shade of green on my monitor isn't quite the real tone on the model's livery, so apologies for that. The HAL is also a slightly darker green than the 2 BIL, which I have always thought was too light in tone. The red paint on the vacuum pipes is a bit heavy, I know. On reflection, the MU cables are too long (better too long than too short!) and will be shortened. There are three tiny bits of white plastic to add to the headcode boxes, then change the HAL to DCC and that will be that - assuming the glazing goes well, of course. Oh, and the sign at the end of the platform has fallen over! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Build fatigue? We don't want to hear that from you Colin - what hope is there for us mere mortals.You should be rightfully proud: it is looking very nice - and so much more subtle a version than other options for this unit in 4mm. How are you removing the transfer film? Micro Sol and a cocktail stick or something similar? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi Number 6, Thanks for the praise, but it really has been a long haul to get this unit right. I suppose every prototype presents technical problems for the modeller to overcome. This slows things down whilst solutions are found. I would aggree that the HAL has some very subtle features that can easily look clumsily done or over-scale: the two seams on the top of the cab, change in body width and the change in cantrail/water strip level on the sides - just some of the amusements to contend with! The transfer carrier film on Modelmaster Decals can be removed with white spirit applied sparingly with a very fine paint brush. (Modelmaster suggest pulling the carrier film away with masking tape on larger transfers, but my method works on small lettering too). I use a magnifying glass to aid this operation. After about a minute from application of the white spirit, the carrier film will turn to a gel-like consistency and it can be gently removed with the paint brush. This trick only works where the transfers have good adhesion to the paintwork i.e. on a glossy finish. The model will need to be varnished fairly soon after the process is completed, as the transfers are left exposed, so to speak. It's worth the effort though - absolutely no silvering effect. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 I am posting a few pictures to show the final, or should it be definitive set of clips which hold the bodies to the chassis. Above: there are two of these lugs on each side, angled to match the tumblehome. Above: the corresponding clips on the inside of the body. Above: a piece of 4mm 'I' section at each end of the chassis locates onto a small strip on the inside of each end of the body (below): These photos should be of interest to Bulleid34088. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted October 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2011 Thanks RE6/6, I'm never going to get anywhere near David Jenkinson's standards - or speed for that matter. I'm not sure I've heard of Teddy Francis. Did he write ay books or articles? Colin Hi Colin Just caught up with your thread. Teddy Francis was a prolific builder in Plasticard of all sorts of GWR clerestory stock for his wealthy clients, producing coaches of Jenkinson's quality. His coach building skills were much published in the old Model Railway Constructor magazine in the 70s He went on to form 'Dart Castings' & 'Shire Scenes' etched parts, both businesses have changed hands several times now. But as I have said Colin, you're certainly in that league now with this build! John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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