N Class Moguls. Not only 32-165DC but also 32-150V.

[Peter Bedding]

I believe that this particular catalogue item 32-165DC, "DCC On Board", is shortly due in UK. Knowing (albeit at second hand) the "challenge" to retro-fit decoders to the original versions, I have a keen interest to learn how Bachmann have re-tooled this loco, and thereby incorporate the decoder as a part of the new r-t-r spec. Originally, the loco body had neglible room to spare. I have several of these originals, with TCSM1 decoders hard-wired and mounted against the motor can within the firebox. There was no alternative. So where have Bachmann found the solution, suitable for the production line?

 

There's plenty of space within the tender, although that would require the Hornby wire and plug solution, and then hard wiring need not be essential. But I guess that in this case the decoder will somehow have been squeezed into the loco, and that some re-tooling will have been carried out to allow this.

 

This now leads me to Modelzone's new limited edition, also expected this Autumn (Catalogue number BC32-150V). It is promised in Bulleid black livery, and is therefore the one I would choose to buy.

 

My recollections are that when the news of this limited edition was first leaked earlier this year, it was said that this too would be "DCC On Board". Perfectly reasonable, for why would Bachmann want to run old tooling, having introduced new tooling for their main catalogue? I sought an answer from Modelzone at the time, but their answer ducked the question. At a second request, I am now told that the MZ limited edition will be using the old tooling.

 

Why? Are two tooling standards being run simultaneously?

 

Much as I would like number 1860 in WW2 utility black, the last thing I want is to go back in time, and attempt to hard-wire a quart into a pint pot.

 

Is anyone better informed?

 

PB

[7013]

The N Class is also a loco I am looking forward to getting. I wonder if they have retooled it in some way to accomodate the decoder? It could just be the electrics. I thought that Bachmann already produced some steam locos with decoder sockets in the tender, and they do not appear to have gone down the 'plug' road like Hornby? I may be wrong.

As those nice people at Bachmann frequently dip into these pages perhaps they could enlighten us.

[brushman47544]

I too am waiting for this loco with interest - provided the weathering is as good as the catalogue image. When announced, I seem to recall Bachmann saying this would be the original tooling, so I am assuming they have found a way to hard wire in their 36-553 decoder. I would be surprised if the chassis does come upgraded with an 8 pin socket, and anyway would that solve the space problem for the Bachmann decoder?

[7013]

Have just seen today on MREmag that said loco is on the next load of Bachmann goodies being exported from China, release should be in August, my order has gone in to Hattons.

[paftrain]

If I remember correctly, the Loco and tender were permanently coupled, so a wired connection to the tender would be an obvious answer.

[Oldddudders]

Bachmann had Chinese-made HO scale steamers for the US market more than a decade ago, using plug and socket tender connection systems which Hornby then copied IMHO, not the other way round. The Bachmann 2-8-0 also had tender pickups. I've not found the Bachmann N very hard to convert to DCC, having done 5 of them - and remain very impressed with their continuity, albeit on live-frog Peco points, my first use of these, despite no tender pickups. If they simply shuffle out another livery, will we really be disappointed?

[autocoach]

I hope Modelzone reduce their price for the SR version if it is not going to be DCC installed. I have one on order and it will cost a pretty penny with a GBP 49 delivery charge.

 

I too have added the TCS T-1 decoders with no problem. I actually would prefer this to a Bachmann decoder as I have standardized on TCS.

[Peter Bedding]

I hope Modelzone reduce their price for the SR version if it is not going to be DCC installed. I have one on order and it will cost a pretty penny with a GBP 49 delivery charge.

 

I too have added the TCS T-1 decoders with no problem. I actually would prefer this to a Bachmann decoder as I have standardized on TCS.

 

I agree entirely. Hatton's current price for DCC Onboard is £90.00, Modelzone without DCC is £99.99. Despite my aversion to retrofitment (reflecting skill shortage), I should still like to have had the MZ version plus TCS decoder, had the costs been comparable. I would normally want to support a trader who is prepared to sponsor a Southern Era 3 livery.

 

I have three N's that have been successfully chipped, and they all have satisfying performance. (Although one is slightly noisier than t'others.) A good working load is nine Hornby R4 Maunsell coaches; with six brass kit-builds I get wheel-spin. So I would make room for another if the price were right.

 

PB

[deltic56]

Just a note I think that to run on DC you have to remove the chip as it is a non standard 6 pin chip. It is only availble in DCC fitted format from Bachmann

[Oldddudders]

Just a note I think that to run on DC you have to remove the chip as it is a non standard 6 pin chip. It is only availble in DCC fitted format from Bachmann

If it has any pretensions to be DCC, it must have CV29, which includes a choice of enabling/disabling DC operation.

[7013]

Just a note I think that to run on DC you have to remove the chip as it is a non standard 6 pin chip. It is only availble in DCC fitted format from Bachmann

 

Do you have source to confirm this deltic56? Appears very odd that an OO gauge loco would have that set up, and as oldddudders points out CV29 is a must.

[deltic56]

From the Bachmann Bulletin May 2011 and I quote

" Consumer DCC Advice "

32-156DC n class 31869 BR Lined Black earley emblem weathered [DCC On board} is currently scheduled to arrive late summer 2011. Please inform your customers that have pre ordered item no 32-165DC that is DCC on board but due to the type of 6 pin decoder fitted is not able to be used on a traditional DC layout straight from the box without replacing the decoder with a blanking plug in its place. DCC layouts are not affected.

 

Straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

[7013]

Thanks deltic56 there must be technical reasons why they could not get an 8 pin decoder socket on board. It will be interesting to see what functions are available with this loco. It does not apparently make any difference to DCC ( Bachmann quote) users like me but I would like to know what is and is not available function wise

[brushman47544]

From the Bachmann Bulletin May 2011 and I quote

" Consumer DCC Advice "

32-156DC n class 31869 BR Lined Black earley emblem weathered [DCC On board} is currently scheduled to arrive late summer 2011. Please inform your customers that have pre ordered item no 32-165DC that is DCC on board but due to the type of 6 pin decoder fitted is not able to be used on a traditional DC layout straight from the box without replacing the decoder with a blanking plug in its place. DCC layouts are not affected.

 

Straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

That is interesting. I had understood that the decoder would be hard wired because the chassis was not yet being upgraded to be DCC Ready as other models were higher priority for this work. However, if the fitted decoder can be replaced by a blanking plug, then it implies that the loco will effectively have been upgraded to DCC Ready. But not DCC Ready as one might expect for OO scale - i.e. ready for an 8-pin or 21-pin decoder rather than for a 6-pin. This is precisely not what I wanted to hear. Or am I missing something?

 

That weathering will have to be really good and look the like the website/catalogue image if I'm going to buy one.

[7013]

They couldn't have just made a printing error and put a 6 instead of an 8? could they? It would be nice to get a definitive answer from Bachmann

[brushman47544]

They couldn't have just made a printing error and put a 6 instead of an 8? could they? It would be nice to get a definitive answer from Bachmann

I don't think so, unfortunately. I'm pretty sure I've read (perhaps on here, even) that Bachmann have said similar things in respect of the OO Class 03, which for space reasons has a 6-pin plug, and that if you use their 6-pin decoder 36-558 it won't work on DC and has to be removed first.

 

Confirmation as to whether the 6-pin decoder is hard wired or not would, however, be useful.

[Oldddudders]

I don't think so, unfortunately. I'm pretty sure I've read (perhaps on here, even) that Bachmann have said similar things in respect of the OO Class 03, which for space reasons has a 6-pin plug, and that if you use their 6-pin decoder 36-558 it won't work on DC and has to be removed first.

 

Confirmation as to whether the 6-pin decoder is hard wired or not would, however, be useful.

I have always assumed that x-pin and hardwired were mutually exclusive. Why mention pins if the decoder is soldered in situ?

[7013]

I know nothing about 6 pin decoders, could anyone enlighten me about the differences (apart from no. of pins) in capabilities between a 6 and 8 pin decoder assuming they are both fairly basic decoders. What I am asking I suppose is ther anything an 8 pin will do that a 6 pin will not?

[Oldddudders]

I know nothing about 6 pin decoders, could anyone enlighten me about the differences (apart from no. of pins) in capabilities between a 6 and 8 pin decoder assuming they are both fairly basic decoders. What I am asking I suppose is ther anything an 8 pin will do that a 6 pin will not?

I've never had a 6-pin one, but as you need two wires for track and two wires for the motor, that only leaves one other pair for functions, while an 8 pin one might offer several functions with a common function return. If you model steam locos, which may not even have lights, functions don't help much unless you want a smoke uit. Diesels/electrics are a different matter, and I believe the potential complexity of different lighting requirements has led to 21-pin decoders.

[7013]

Yes reading Brian Lamberts site it looks as if the 6 pin offers less functions than 8 pin. For a steam loco with no lights etc it should be fine as long as you do not expect too much in the form of extras.

[7013]

Have just seen photo of this loco in Hornby Magazine, the weathering is very much lighter than the original photos, I can see this it is going to need some work to get it looking heavily work stained.

[Bulleidboy]

I've fitted a Bachmann 36-558 6pin decoder to a Class 03 and this decoder has a lot of functionality:

 

• 
   
  
• CV29 can be set for DC
  
• Back EMF and motor control
  
• Function mapping
  
• User or 14 pre-set speed tables
  

However the current rating is only 500ma.

 

So it sounds like Bachmann are using a different decoder for the N Class??

 

As others have said, it is really easy to hardwire the 'N' - I've used TCS-M1.

 

Mike

[Adrian Wintle]

Yes reading Brian Lamberts site it looks as if the 6 pin offers less functions than 8 pin. For a steam loco with no lights etc it should be fine as long as you do not expect too much in the form of extras.

 

A six-pin decoder can support two functions. The six pins are track+/-, motor+/-, F0+, and F0-. It depends on the alternate function return allowed for by the DCC spec (return to a track feed) to complete the function circuits rather than having a seventh pin (the blue wire on 8-pin decoders) to provide the return. Otherwise there is no reason why a 6-pin decoder can't be as capable as an 8-pin one (e.g. Lenz has made both the Silver Mini and the Gold Mini in 6- and 8-pin variants).

 

I don't understand why Bachmann would install a decoder that wasn't DC capable - all their North American DCC-equipped product uses 'Dual-Mode' decoders (including the N-scale 44-Tonner, which has a tiny circuit board).

 

Adrian

[Peter Bedding]

I don't think so, unfortunately. I'm pretty sure I've read (perhaps on here, even) that Bachmann have said similar things in respect of the OO Class 03, which for space reasons has a 6-pin plug, and that if you use their 6-pin decoder 36-558 it won't work on DC and has to be removed first.

 

Confirmation as to whether the 6-pin decoder is hard wired or not would, however, be useful.

 

A current magazine advert seems to imply that, for DC control, the factory-fitted decoder may be removed, and a blanking plug (also supplied) fitted in its place.

For my preferences this would be a good approach across the board. If the factory-supplied decoder is suitable for my minimal needs, then all is well. If a buyer wants a better decoder, then change is (hopefully) straightforward.

 

But nothing is said as to whether the decoder fits the loco or tender. One can hard-wire a decoder inside the loco body, but some re-engineering might have been necessary to fit a socket and decoder. It just seems odd to me that the manufacturer has apparently chosen to be reticent on this aspect.

 

As per my earlier post, my interest is for Modelzone's simultaneous limited edition "BC32-150V". But my request for details of the spec received a polite "Sorry, don't yet know" response.

 

Inevitably, pre-DCC era designs will continue, and the buyer will have to carry out a retro-fit as best as may be possible. But I would like to know in advance before parting with the hard-earned. That said, this N-class is a rather fine model, runs well with a good hauling capability. I have more than enough room for another.

 

PB

[7013]

Presumably if it has a socket then exchanging the supplied decoder for another will be relatively straightforward (one hopes). I am of course assuming the supplied decoder comes with its wring loom etc and has simply been plugged in the socket. It is interesting that Model Rails review was not very in depth in that it did not give any photos or info on the positioning or style of decoder, I suspect they gave it a quick run and drew on their experience from previous reviews despite this being a novel approach from Bachmann. I spoke to Hattons a couple of days ago and they are expecting theirs shortly.