303013 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Sorry if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but I have just come across this clip of 6233 on Shap (it starts in Stirling, yes, I know) and am curious to know exactly what is happening with the coal to produce such impressive sparks. I know it is being worked flat and is being fed huge amounts of coal, but still, what causes it?? Anyway, enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6NR3cgQZtY&feature=related Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I'd suggest it's the glare from the open firebox door reflecting off the exhaust. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted November 28, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2011 I'm wondering if it is caused by the OLE arcing through the steam, the later clips really look like sheet lightning across clouds. Very spectacular effect. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bayford Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 There was a simmilar video on Youtube cant find it now but it was B1 i think sat under the OHLE and it shorted it out as already mentioned it arcs through the carbon content. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I think it is just a reflection off the billowing smoke. I used to watch the Brits going past my house (which already had OHLE back then) and the amount of light given off by the firebox (particularly underneath and reflected) was considerable at dusk and night. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I also wondered if it was anything to do with the OHLE. Could this be the reason they were not allowed "under the wires" towards the end, and had the yellow stripe on the cabside? We have had problems with "flash-overs" on the Southern end of the ECML, which have caused trains to be cancelled and loco's to be impounded. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 If that was true they certainly would not be allowed to run nowadays, would they? Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Well, yes, but I wonder what has changed to permit them to. And as I have said there are still problems. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Hi all, pH is correct, it's the open firebox door with the roaring fire that's glowing in the billowing steam over the cab. I've seen the effect a few times and not under wires. If it was a continuous flashover it would stop the job completely so don't worry. And as Ed has said the yellow stripe on the cab side meant certain locos which were taller than others were banned from under the wires south of Crewe but these days these locos have had the height reduced to under the height gauge for the wires, Locos like the Princess and Coronation class have been chopped down a couple of inches but you wouldn't notice it really. You can see the height of the tender against the coaches in the video though. All the best, Dave Franks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Hello all, I don't think that it's the glow from the firebox as that would be over the cab and be more continuous, What it looks like is the fireman has put a round in the box and the fine dust is just going down the tubes and being thrown up the chimney, so at the chimney we have coal dust (carbon), water (steam) and electric at 25Kv. So when you put all three together you can get micro short circuits or the coal dust burning in the steam, with the addition of the electric. It should not be enough to trip the breakers on the 25Kv. When the B1 tripped the breakers both safety valves lifted under the wires (I can't remember where, but IIRC it was in a confined space e.g. under a bridge). When the valves lift there is a lot of water in the steam as this steam has not been used i.e. through the super heater and in to the cylinders. Fascinating video all the same. Thanks for shearing it with us. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 That surely is spectacular, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
303013 Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Thanks everyone. I noticed that every time it happened, then what looked to be the cab would light up too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 When the B1 tripped the breakers both safety valves lifted under the wires (I can't remember where, but IIRC it was in a confined space e.g. under a bridge) Liverpool Street, if it's this video you're thinking of. Quite what numpty put it there when there's 10 far more open platforms on the other side of the station I really have no idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Yes and that looks quite different from the original video.................. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
303013 Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Talking of epic steam videos, THIS just gets me, I mean, imagine if you were the proud owner and you saw (and heard) that, you'd be utterly distraught! Even the sound is horrible! I've heard a sound recording of another loco doing the same, and the same squealing noise can be heard at the end of it too, as if it was crying in pain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted December 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2011 As stated above that's the reflection of the glare from the fire on the exhaust - the reason it's not continuous is that when firing with the engine working quite hard you only open the door when you put a shovelful on. If you leave it open all of the time with the thing working hard then you draw in huge amounts of cold air through the hole which can lead to leaky tubes etc. With the Blue Peter incident water was carried over with the steam (also known as priming). This makes it virtually impossible to close the regulator until steam only is going through the valve. When it started to slip the driver, realising he couldn't shut the regulator, tried to wind the thing into mid gear. As soon as he released the reverser lock , it wound itself into full forward gear (they do that) with such force that the driver broke his wrist trying to stop it. The thing then went into the humungous slip resulting in the much publicised damage. It was calculated that the wheels were doing around 150mph but the loco wasn't. .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catkins Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 reference Blue Peter at Durham. That was a very painful video to watch, but the newscaster mentioned the words "inexperienced" and "sure-footed". Not two words that I would like together, but (with hindsight) I notice that there was rain lying on the rails and side of the viaduct, the crew were trying to move and accelerate a long and heavy train, and had just opened up on the regulator, when it started to slip - so I would think that it could have been avoided, but then that comes down to experience, and I pity the first crew to get that experience. EDIT - I notice that with the B1 and A2, both engines seemed to be producing more steam than was strictly needed, so could the driving and firing styles be wrong? I ask because I've only seen steamers at speed, with barely any effort required to keep the train moving. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
303013 Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 and I pity the first crew to get that experience. Having driven and fired steam locos at Wolzstyn before, the loco often feels like it is trying to shake itself to pieces as it is normally, so it must truly have been a brown trouser moment when that happened! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher125 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I don't think that it's the glow from the firebox as that would be over the cab and be more continuous Please be in no doubt, it is purely caused by the glow from the firebox door - it's a well known effect known about for a long, long time. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
303013 Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 As an aside, I remember hearing a recording of another loco, one of the really well known ones (something like Duchess of Hamilton working a railtour on the Settle to Carlisle or similar in the '70s or '80s) having a mahoosive slip on the same proportions as Blue Peter (but it wasn't as damaged), but I cannot remember what site I heard it on or very many details of it, but if anyone knows it would be much appreciated, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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