RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2012 When I was a teenager we used to wander the tracks if a steam special was around, it was an unwritten rule that it was Ok to do so, I photographed steam specials from the middle of Chester triangle on more than one occasion, and it's hard to get there without crossing running lines (!), the signalmen even used to tell us when it was safe to cross, however the railway is a different place these days, faster, quieter and I stay off it. I believe genuine enthusiasts know to do the same, but some don't believe in following the rules, for whatever reason, and there are probably examples of these people in every walk of life. This was a typical example of the later days of steam, although not the busiest. It was the Last County special at Snow Hill. When Flying Scotsman made its first visit there were an estimated 8,000 people and the track could hardly be seen. As Beast says, the railway was a different place in those days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2012 well im glad no one has ripped into me for my comments and the replies mirror a lot of my views too, dont get me wrong i do report trespass but you always have that "its not worth it as im going to delay everything else" thought in the back of your mind which is wrong, if you dont report something you have a "what if they get hit by the next train" thought it is frustrating when you do something positive only to be shot down the next day, another example (sorry) i picked up a couple of east europeans who were trespassing south of leamington a few months back after i was stopped and warned about them, they were nice as pie when i stopped and explained hey were walking to london, anyway got them on board and took them to banbury where they were arrested by btp, brilliant result. however next day, pulled into banbury and there was one of them heading north again, told the guard what had happened previously, when he went to check his ticket the guy had a used kids ticket from the previous day that he'd picked up from the floor somewhere so he was ejected at leamington, again no resources to get btp back out to him and deal with him properly education; back in the 80s my dad who was a policeman visited the local schools and warned the kids of the dangers of playing on the line, he was a proper copper, clip round the ear kind, none of this namby panby "community policing" rubbish and the kids listened to him. about 8 years ago the police visited schools around northwich warning kids not to mess on the railway or climb on wagons, 2 days later a kid from one of the schools fell from a moving sand train in northwich station, survived but fell under the wheels and lost his legs, parents reaction....."he wouldn't have thought of doing it had the police not visited the school and put the idea in his head" again everyone to blame but yourselves dangers of the railway: only the other night coming into haddenham there were a group of girls on the platform on a night out, they were messing about as pulled in taking pics etc, right on the platform edge and then proceeded to knock the windows of the entire length of the train as i pulled in and wave at people,( id opened the cab window and was looking back as i pulled in), had any of them been wearing a skirt longer than a belt (not that im complaining) they could have easily been dragged under if it caught say on a step, again probably no concept of the dangers being followed home: not a nice experience but it certainly doesnt stop me reporting things but it made me very wary of face to face confronation for a long time afterwards loving the snow hill picture btw! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hmmm, these always threads always arouse much consternation.....my own feelings are that Andy is probably wasting his time, and I wouldn't like to think that said gentleman could possibly cause some retribution (Is it elvis's younger brother ?). I know it gives bad press to 'railway enthusiasts' if he is one, but I see illegal acts every day - littering/fly tipping etc.. Also I believe if he continues with his shortcuts he may have to answer to some high authority once he's gone under the wheels of 100t of canada's finest export.I would be quite at ease with that form of darwinian selection. I cannot preach, I clearly remember taking a short cut across the bridge over the thames at Bourne End, trying to get to a site to launch my RC glider. It was just then the DMU from Marlow pulled in.........stupid boy (1986). What did your eastern Europeans say when you pulled up Jim ? - " class 168, it's nniiiiicccee......" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 my own feelings are that Andy is probably wasting his time, Possibly; but there's a slim chance that further info could have been provided to BTP so that further action could be taken. At least it's a positive action rather than letting such follies go without comment. If more people snapped trespassers there's a chance more action could be taken where there are cable thefts too. There is a crown court hearing next month on two charges over a different sort of incident which was initially reported on RMweb so you can never tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2012 Possibly; but there's a slim chance that further info could have been provided to BTP so that further action could be taken. At least it's a positive action rather than letting such follies go without comment. If more people snapped trespassers there's a chance more action could be taken where there are cable thefts too. There is a crown court hearing next month on two charges over a different sort of incident which was initially reported on RMweb so you can never tell. Quite right Andy. If folk ignore issues like this they will simply carry on and become even more accepted (unless in the meanwhile someone gets bashed by a train in which case it will all be NR's fault of course). And the more incidents are reported the more likely some of the miscreants will be brought to book - hopefully with attendant publicity about their conviction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Positive action is always better! Btw if you assess that someone is following you whilst driving in your car a decent tip is to simply drive to a Police Station and walk inside, It's what I told my Wife to do. I have them highlighted on both our Navigation systems. Other sanctions are not readily available to citizens of the UK - I wouldn't recommend them to you anyway. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signalmaintainer Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 A bit off topic perhaps, but several years ago one of the North American Class 1s based on the Eastern Seaboard sent an industry publication a letter after said magazine published a railfan photo. The photo appeared to have been taken from atop a signal mast. Gist of the letter was that the railroad threatened to cite the photographer for trespassing, harangued the magazine for indirectly promoting such antics, and asked magazine to provide them with more information re: identity of the individual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signalmaintainer Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Other sanctions are not readily available to citizens of the UK - I wouldn't recommend them to you anyway. But they are much more succinct and effective than waiting for the police to finally arrive, if one's life is in danger of course. While out railfanning in the wilds of the remote Cascade Mountains, it's not a bad idea to carry a firearm anyway, what with the black bears and especially the burgeoning cougar* population. (*I mean the large, aggressive feline species, not 40- to 50-year-old single female bar denizens.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2012 Positive action is always better! Btw if you assess that someone is following you whilst driving in your car a decent tip is to simply drive to a Police Station and walk inside, It's what I told my Wife to do. I have them highlighted on both our Navigation systems. Other sanctions are not readily available to citizens of the UK - I wouldn't recommend them to you anyway. Best, Pete. Good advice Pete but it does of course rely on first finding a police station and then hoping it will be open when you get there - a few years back a bloke was killed, during an attack by a couple of youngsters, on the pavement just across the road from our local cop shop; the last folk to get there were the police - even the ambulance arrived before they did (fancy barrister paid for by his wealthy record producer - as it happened - dad got the lad off on the grounds of provocation and self-defence but that's another story). Last year there was an armed robbery in a bank branch you can actually see from the upstairs window of that cop shop - the police went to the wrong bank (in another town nearby) and got back 45 minutes after the robber had left. Sorry to veer a bit O/T but the point we have to face up to is that while we should continue to report miscreants such as trespassers on railways the chances of quick police response are not necessarily good - but I don't think that is a reason not to report incidents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'm in two minds about this sort of thing. The sensible enthusiast in me says report it. The chances of someone getting injured, or, God forbid, killed, are higher if they don't obey simple rules/laws. Once THAT happens, there's your excuse for forbidding even more railway photography. However, the other side of this is the Big Brother argument. Are we getting into the way of reporting people? Our football club is looking at the idea of texting the control room if a fan is "misbehaving". But it's only for home fans, not away fans. (You can imagine the fans' responses to THAT!). Our council regularly runs adverts asking people to grass on anyone seen throwing anything from a car window. Just get the car number, we will do the rest! But where does it all end? People grassed up to settle a score? People grassed up when they didn't do it, and punished on someone else's say-so? We need to be careful NOT to go down the roads of 1930's germany and 1940's USSR. The government already have far too much control... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2012 We need to be careful NOT to go down the roads of 1930's germany and 1940's USSR. The government already have far too much control... I think we are a long way from that, reporting $%$%ers who drop litter everywhere, or people who trespass is not quite the same as mass genocide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Our council regularly runs adverts asking people to grass on anyone seen throwing anything from a car window. Just get the car number, we will do the rest! But where does it all end? People grassed up to settle a score? People grassed up when they didn't do it, and punished on someone else's say-so? I could be concerned about that, depending just what 'the rest' constitutes. The police wont act on a complaint against another driver without an independent witness (I know, I've tried it when a kn*b on a phone dived out of a junction twenty feet in front of me), so I dont see how a council can get a litter penalty to stick on that basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2012 In some countries it is common practice to walk along rail lines; Poland for example, where I have seen it for real. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'm in two minds about this sort of thing. The sensible enthusiast in me says report it. The chances of someone getting injured, or, God forbid, killed, are higher if they don't obey simple rules/laws. Once THAT happens, there's your excuse for forbidding even more railway photography. However, the other side of this is the Big Brother argument. Having been 'inside the fence' legitimately for several decades (and still going there occasionally) plus having seen (several times) the result of a human/train interface at closer quarters than I would really have liked I have no doubts whatsoever. Such people are trespassing on private property; they are trespasssing in a way which might result in severe injury to them or their death; they are trespassing in a way which presents danger to others and which could result in others being unable to work for the rest of their lives; and above all they are being utterly stupid. When I was inside such fences with a good reason to be there I had no compunction whatsoever in throwing them out (literally if necessary) or in reporting them for as many Byelaw offences as I and the local BTP officers could think up (use of a shotgun on railway premises was a humdinger). I see no reason whatsoever to vary that attitude even if it results in nothing more than the survival (this time round) of some brain cell donating member of society but more importantly perhaps avoids a member of the greater railway family having a death on his mind and facing the ruin of his career and livelihood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2012 Think you mean organ donating Mike. brain cell donating member of society if they had any to rub together they wouldn't be there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Williams Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 The idea that said law breaker is going to "follow me home and neat me up"....... I can think of a number of enthusiasts who would benefit from that!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Trainshed Terry Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2012 Think you mean organ donating Mike. brain cell donating member of society if they had any to rub together they wouldn't be there. More like the micro-dot not working. Terry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If folk ignore issues like this they will simply carry on and become even more accepted Actually it's the other way around. There is endless photographic and documentary eveidence of people wandering around over the railway 40 years ago (some with official passes) taking photos, bunking sheds, etc. It may be for our own good but society is becoming a lot LESS tolerant than it ever was. Common sense has been abolished and we have a surveillance society instead. Do I approve of what that chap was doing. No - but then I wasn't there to ask him if he had permission to be there so I can't be sure... Most of the reponses so far have been "guilty without trial" and I find that apalling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2012 Was checking round a worksite at Bestwood one night ready to give up the possession when I saw a headlight coming along the track towards me. It came straight past the marker board but the dets didn't go off. Then I realised it was one of the locals on his motor bike riding down the four foot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I've come across people in the 4foot on many occasions. They just look at me blankly when told they are trespassing "I will hear the train" or "there are only 2 trains a week round here" are the standard answers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2012 At Newstead whilst on a test train run I was standing just south of the station discussing trespass with an HMRI Inspecting Officer and a BTP Inspector. A family complete with pushchair came out of the pub, through the fence and straight across the track about 10 yards away from us. Shortly afterwards we had to abort a run testing crossing controls and visibility at line speed because of an old lady walking her dog in the four foot on the single line at Linby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Actually it's the other way around. There is endless photographic and documentary eveidence of people wandering around over the railway 40 years ago (some with official passes) taking photos, bunking sheds, etc. It may be for our own good but society is becoming a lot LESS tolerant than it ever was. Common sense has been abolished and we have a surveillance society instead. Do I approve of what that chap was doing. No - but then I wasn't there to ask him if he had permission to be there so I can't be sure... Most of the reponses so far have been "guilty without trial" and I find that apalling. Andy, the railway of 50 years ago was an entirely different place and many of those around at that time had official permits to be there. The railway was also a more labour intensive place with more people around and therefore anyone on the wrong side of the fence was more likely to be challenged. Today, there is no such thing as a lineside permit and even professionals with lawful reason to be on the line are not permitted to work alone therefore this individual has no reason whatsoever to be on the railway and he is certainly not garbed in a suitable matter for being there. Whatever his reason for being on the railway it is certainly not lawful. There is nothing appalling about that; trespass is an absolute offence and there is no defence under the law. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Good advice Pete but it does of course rely on first finding a police station and then hoping it will be open when you get there I'd forgotten about that possibilty, Mike - over here if they are a Police Station they have to be open 24/7 (New Jersey, anyway). Plus, of course, the Police recognise that ultimately one is responsible for one's own defence so I am entitled to impose the ultimate sanction on a miscreant on my property at least. Burglaries are fairly low over here... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 However, the other side of this is the Big Brother argument. I have no problem with Big Brother acting on criminals that I report. In fact that is what I want to happen. I do of course expect the "criminal" to have the right to defend themselves and to demand to be tried by their peers with evidence based proof. But just ice must also be seen to be done for any law to be valid. Perhaps trespass is no big crime in the wider scheme of things and is likely to be very much based (should be) on the extent of consequential loss that the trespass is likely to cause. But that is all about the penalty of breaking the law. It is not about the action of breaking the law, many of which have been on the statute for many years. It matters not if it is littering, walking alongside a railway line, or tearing up signalling or fences - they should all be reported with as much evidence as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 There's an awful lot of froth being generated on this thread, but then it is always true of trespass on the railway. My view is that it has nothing at all to do with anyone but the landowner and the trespasser and I have seen police at locations where a special is to pass doing nothing but ensuring that everyone is safe. On the wrong side of the fence for some, but safe. Sensible! Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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