6 Wheel Coaches

[ChrisN]

Although my main modelling is of a freelance Welsh narrow gauge railway, I have for some time been investigating main line connecting services. The problem that I have with this is that my era is late Victorian, and the layout will be set in 1895. This means that any mainline coaches will be 4 wheel or more likely 6 wheel stock.

 

I did buy some Kemilway Cambrian 6 wheelers even though I have no skills in soldering thinking that I could at least fold them up & glue them if nothing else. I also investigated HMRS for drawings so I could fit out the interiors. However, when I received them they were completely opaque to me as to how to make them, and I have been looking to see if I could buy one that someone else has made to give me a clue as to what to do.

 

Also, having been bitten with the six wheel bug, I have also looked at coaches from the LCDR. What I would really like are some plastic 6 wheel coach kits which perhaps I could put different fittings on, although I am not sure that the Slaters MR ones are appropriate.

 

I also have some Ratio 4 wheel kits with the view as suggested somewhere else on this forum of using the Bachmann Emily 6 wheel coach chassis but as yet I have not got around to doing the necessary hacking to make it appear reasonable. Today I saw on eBay some Ratio kits that had Hornby Palethorpes 6 wheel van chassis. This is another idea for producing a 6 wheel coach.

 

My questions are:-

 

Are there any plastic six wheel kits that I have missed?

 

Could anyone give me advice on the Kemilway kits?

 

Is using RTR chassis under a Ratio kit reasonable given that most six wheelers are longer than 4 wheelers?

[hayfield]

NC Keyser (K's) did a 6 wheel gwr Clearstory whitemetal coach, these are quite common on Ebay as are the 4 wheelers

 

Comet do etched brass 6 wheel W irons, so it would be a simple job to build a 6 wheel underframe

 

I have spliced together Ratio 4 wheelers to make bogie coaches, no reason why the same process cannot be used to make 6 wheelers, use razor saw to cut along the door opening to hide joins. Use the Comet W irons and reuse the Ratio springs and axleboxes, Plasticard floor and join 2 footboards, solebars,roofs etc together.

[mike morley]

I've got two of the Kemilway/Peter K Cambrian carriage kits so am only too well aware of the shortcomings of their underpinnings.

Having tackled what is provided by the kit and failed, my advice would be to invest in one of Brassmasters Cleminson kits. That's what I did and am extremely impressed by the results, although I have to admit that when I first opened the packet I was a bit baffled and didnt quite believe it was going to work until I put it on the track.

Trust me, it does - far better than you could ever believe.

The Cambrian carriages call for minimum wheelbase (don't worry that the "correct" wheelbase doesnt quite tie up with what is offered by the Brassmasters kit. The dimensional accuracy of the Kemilway/Peter K kit isnt spot on and the discrepancy isnt the least bit apparent) and in EM gauge the result will negotiate two-foot radius bends with ease. In 00 I should think eighteen inch radius curves are possible.

[Armchair Modeller]

There was an article in an early Model Railway Journal about converting Ratio 4 wheelers into 6 wheelers, if I remember correctly. MRJ is renowned for being a little behind the times, so you may have to learn Latin or Aramaic to read it though

[Guest notascoobie]

There was an article in an early Model Railway Journal about converting Ratio 4 wheelers into 6 wheelers, if I remember correctly. MRJ is renowned for being a little behind the times, so you may have to learn Latin or Aramaic to read it though

......or want to do some modelling rather than shake the box stuff....

 

At times the MRJ is exasperating with some of its pedant contributors/letter writers. But the sheer quality of the modelling stands out. The key is that if the trade doesn't do a R-T-R or kit, then let's build it anyway. I believe that's called modelling.

 

Toodle pip

[BernardTPM]

The Hornby 'Palthorpes/LMS milk van' chassis isn't very well detailed and doesn't have footboards either so may not be worth worrying about. I may need to add a little Standard Gauge Cambrian to my n.g. too, but as it's set in 1972 I won't need 6 wheel coaches.

[jcm@gwr]

Hi Chris,

I would avoid the Hornby six wheeled units, they are extremely crude to say the least.

I know that MARC Models does a conversion for these, but I'm not sure if the underframe is

available seperately. [He also uses the same unit to improve the Stove R] It has a quite clever

method for setting up different wheelbases, with a floating centre axle for troublefree running

on tighter radii curves.

Jeff

[ChrisN]

Wow! Thank you so far. This is really helpful. Having spent hours trawling the internet for things I find that others have already found what I am looking for. Thank you.

 

 

NC Keyser (K's) did a 6 wheel gwr Clearstory whitemetal coach, these are quite common on Ebay as are the 4 wheelers

 

I have seen a number of 4 and 6 wheelers but I think the extra work to add floors etc may not be worth it. They tend to be a bit expensive especially as they are not exactly what I am after.

 

Comet do etched brass 6 wheel W irons, so it would be a simple job to build a 6 wheel underframe

 

I have spliced together Ratio 4 wheelers to make bogie coaches, no reason why the same process cannot be used to make 6 wheelers, use razor saw to cut along the door opening to hide joins. Use the Comet W irons and reuse the Ratio springs and axleboxes, Plasticard floor and join 2 footboards, solebars,roofs etc together.

 

This seems more than feasable. I shall have to dig out pictures and diagrams and get sawing away.

 

 

I've got two of the Kemilway/Peter K Cambrian carriage kits so am only too well aware of the shortcomings of their underpinnings.

Having tackled what is provided by the kit and failed, my advice would be to invest in one of Brassmasters Cleminson kits. That's what I did and am extremely impressed by the results, although I have to admit that when I first opened the packet I was a bit baffled and didnt quite believe it was going to work until I put it on the track.

Trust me, it does - far better than you could ever believe.

The Cambrian carriages call for minimum wheelbase (don't worry that the "correct" wheelbase doesnt quite tie up with what is offered by the Brassmasters kit. The dimensional accuracy of the Kemilway/Peter K kit isnt spot on and the discrepancy isnt the least bit apparent) and in EM gauge the result will negotiate two-foot radius bends with ease. In 00 I should think eighteen inch radius curves are possible.

 

I have dug out my etches and looked at the Brassmasters etch. Seems reasonable. My only worry is that brass to me is nearly a four letter word and I shall have to learn all sorts of things to make it all work. Still I retire in 670 odd days so I shall have plenty of time, hopefully, once I've sorted the garden out, got us ready to move..............

 

 

There was an article in an early Model Railway Journal about converting Ratio 4 wheelers into 6 wheelers, if I remember correctly. MRJ is renowned for being a little behind the times, so you may have to learn Latin or Aramaic to read it though

 

Managed to do German not Latin at school so that might be a problem. Is there an index that I can view for MRJ or how do I access old copies?

 

 

 

The Hornby 'Palthorpes/LMS milk van' chassis isn't very well detailed and doesn't have footboards either so may not be worth worrying about. I may need to add a little Standard Gauge Cambrian to my n.g. too, but as it's set in 1972 I won't need 6 wheel coaches.

 

You are more than probably right. It just seemed an easy way to obtain a chassis.

The advantage of narrow gauge is that you can set the time period and the locos and rolling stock can stay more or less the same. Period people can be a little more difficult if yo want variety but it is the locos and rolling stock of the main line railways where the difficulties come in unless you are a dab hand with the solder or want to be near a GWR line.

 

I shall probably end up building the six wheelers, including the insides, adding some passengers but never actually building a line for them to run on. Oh well, never mind. I enjoy building things and I have wasted spent many happy hours doing the research.

Edited February 25, 2012 by ChrisN

[ChrisN]

Oops. First time using multiquote. Obviously got the replies in the wrong place, sorry.

 

Ohh, used the edior and managed to sort it out. Learning new things all the time.

Edited February 25, 2012 by ChrisN

[davknigh]

MRJ index can be found here: http://www.modelrailwayjournal.com/ back issues can be found from a variety of sources some of whom are bound to post in the near future

 

HTH

 

David

[hayfield]

The good thing about the Comet W irons is that you get 3 W irons plus an inside bearing unit, you could by using the Ratio plastic W iron/spring/axlebox unit with the inside bearing unit free up a W iron so 2 packets are enough for 2 6 wheel and a 4 wheel coach/van

[Adrian Wintle]

If you can get hold of the Bachmann 'Emily' coaches from their North American Thomas range, they are six-wheel coaches with full step boards. The coach bodies are a bit peculiar, with clerestories that don't extend to the ends of the roof and with flangeless centre wheelsets, but there is potential. They will go through shallow curves with a flanged wheelset (I replaced the wheels with Gibsons),The other interesting thing is that the chassis is just about the same size as the short Ratio coaches, so a little bitof fettling will give you a (somewhat crude) 6-wheel GWR-pattern coach.

 

Adrian

[ChrisN]

Thank you all again for your help If I do not quote you directly I still am grateful for your reply

 

Hi Chris, I would avoid the Hornby six wheeled units, they are extremely crude to say the least. I know that MARC Models does a conversion for these, but I'm not sure if the underframe is available seperately. [He also uses the same unit to improve the Stove R] It has a quite clever method for setting up different wheelbases, with a floating centre axle for troublefree running on tighter radii curves. Jeff

 

Thanks, I will go through his site and see what I can find

 

MRJ index can be found here: http://www.modelrailwayjournal.com/ back issues can be found from a variety of sources some of whom are bound to post in the near future HTH David

 

Thanks I will have a search through and also had it to my list of sites

 

If you can get hold of the Bachmann 'Emily' coaches from their North American Thomas range, they are six-wheel coaches with full step boards. The coach bodies are a bit peculiar, with clerestories that don't extend to the ends of the roof and with flangeless centre wheelsets, but there is potential. They will go through shallow curves with a flanged wheelset (I replaced the wheels with Gibsons),The other interesting thing is that the chassis is just about the same size as the short Ratio coaches, so a little bitof fettling will give you a (somewhat crude) 6-wheel GWR-pattern coach. Adrian

 

I did actually manage to buy a couple and took them to pieces but before I started to hack the buffer beams I stopped and wondered if I could do something better. I then left that and started something else but as I take ages to do anything that is still ongoing. However, some things do not need alot of setting up to do so I may go back to this sooner rather than later.

[brossard]

I built the Chivers 6 wheel LMS Fish Van underframe. I couldn't put swivels on the outer axles because of the brake reinforcing bar. I got away with simply allowing the center axle to float from side to side. Outer axles are sprung. Check this link for more:

 

http://britishmodelrailwayclubofmontreal.blogspot.com/2011/11/chivers-lms-6-wheel-fish-van.html

 

The finished van looks a bit ahoo and I discovered later that paint had clogged the spring mechanism. After cleaning the vans sits well and runs very nicely indeed.

 

John

[wab764]

I have a six wheel exley coach but the chassis is damaged beyond repair. Does anybody have a chassis for the above coach or drawing or photos of the chassis so I can fabricate one. If not will any six wheel chassis fit with little modification.

Jim M

[brossard]

Brassmasters do a Cleminson chassis: http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/cleminson_underframe.htm

 

John

Edited January 12, 2013 by brossard

[Jol Wilkinson]

Brassmasters do a Cleminson chassis: http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/cleminson_underframe.htm

 

John

So do London Road Models for LNWR six wheel carriages. http://www.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/carriages/lnwr-carriages/

[uax6]

Also Branchlines will sell you their MR 6wheeled chassis seperately too. The first bit of etched brass soldering I did was on one of these, and apart from the middle wheelset holder needing to be adjusted to suit 00 back to backs (or was it the old wheelsets i used?) it went together so easily. I intend to use them for other 6 wheelers when I get round to returning to carriage works.....

 

Get round quite tight curves too, and are clemys as well, lovely to watch the axleguards moving around. The Slaters ones work quite nicely too, but not sure you can get them seperately.

 

Andy g

[ChrisN]

Also Branchlines will sell you their MR 6wheeled chassis seperately too. The first bit of etched brass soldering I did was on one of these, and apart from the middle wheelset holder needing to be adjusted to suit 00 back to backs (or was it the old wheelsets i used?) it went together so easily. I intend to use them for other 6 wheelers when I get round to returning to carriage works.....

 

Get round quite tight curves too, and are clemys as well, lovely to watch the axleguards moving around. The Slaters ones work quite nicely too, but not sure you can get them seperately.

 

Andy g

 

Andy,

Thanks.  I have bought a clemenson from Brassmasters.  It is sitting in a drawer waiting for me to finish off a Shire Scenes Holden 4 wheeler and the new GWR Shire Scenes brake van which was given me to try out before it went on release.  Oops!  It will get done but these are my first ventures into brass and I am not sure I am up to soldering yet, and plastic is so much easier.

[ChrisN]

So do London Road Models for LNWR six wheel carriages. http://www.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/carriages/lnwr-carriages/

 

LNWR,

Sorry must have missed this post.  Thank you.  I will have a look at all of the suggestions eventually.

[Poor Old Bruce]

The Slaters ones work quite nicely too, but not sure you can get them seperately.

The Slater's kits are now with Coopercraft and some parts are available separately.

[Jaz]

Did you ever find anything to suit? And if so are there any pictures? 

[ChrisN]

Did you ever find anything to suit? And if so are there any pictures? 

 

Jaz,

Thanks for asking.

 

I bought a Brassmasters cleminson a few months back.  There are no pictures at present as firstly my present camera is not up to it but at the moment there is nothing to photograph.  I have not used brass before but I have for far too long been building a coach with Shire Scenes sides as a practise.  This is well on its way but it was interupted by me building a hobbit house and some cottages for my eldest son who needed then for a film he was making.  I then have another one before I tackle before I think about these coaches.  I have not soldered before so that will be interesting. 

 

However, I also have a small cottage that I am scratch building including the insides plus painting and modifying figures.  Brass I am finding a challenge and I am easily distracted.

 

Once I get to Christmas I may find I have a decent camera so I can start a thread or two but it will not be posted to regularly as my modelling is sparodic.

[RosiesBoss]

G'day, all,

 

I also needed a few 6-wheelers to run behind my motorised Kitmaster Stirling Single. Here is a link to how I approached the challenge: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67037-motorising-a-kitmaster-stirling-single/

 

Happy modelling!

 

Regards,

 

Rob

Edited October 23, 2013 by RosiesBoss

[ChrisN]

G'day, all,

 

I also needed a few 6-wheelers to run behind my motorised Kitmaster Stirling Single. Here is a link to how I approached the challenge: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67037-motorising-a-kitmaster-stirling-single/

 

Happy modelling!

 

Regards,

 

Rob

 

Thanks Rob,

I shall read down it when I get a chance.

 

I am much more confident now about trying scratchbuilding and kit bashing than a while ago, mainly by looking at what others have done on the web, (try searching Lunster as there are some fabulous layouts plus they give step by step guides), as well as what I have done.  When I have finished, or rather nearly finished, what I have started then I shall set about building some coaches.