alangdance Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I don't know if anybody has any ideas how to remove the spring on a Code 75 Double slip. The problem I got is that the DS has be layed already and can not be lifted. I know to remove the spring you have to unclip it from the bottom. Has anybody managed to remove the spring from the top. Could I drill it out on the timbers next to the tie bar. Any surgestions would bb very helpful. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alangdance Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Forgot to ask if anybody has a photo of the spring on the bottom of the slip this would also be most helpful. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted April 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2012 Why do you need to remove it ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alangdance Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 I am Using Tortise switch machines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted April 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2012 I've driven plenty of double slips, no need to remove the spring, use a stiffer wire and it works fine. The need to remove the spring is a myth. Our layout has nearly 100 points, all driven by Tortoise, and we only removed the springs on a couple (which was a mistake). If the points are on a scenic section then there is an argument that the movement looks slightly better with the spring removed, but the extra hold the spring gives can outweigh that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Hi DAS Didn't you remove the whole mechanism thingy on Widnes (including the spring) to improve appearances?... a practice which I'm following, so it's worrying to hear you say "it was a mistake"! Or am I getting it wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted April 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2012 The spring is underneath so you have to remove it before you lay the slip. See pictures here:- http://www.sol.me.uk/hogallery/steeltrack/photos/tracklaying_14.html http://www.sol.me.uk...klaying_15.html I've removed them from mine since otherwise there's a loud and annoying click as the blades snap over. I too am using Tortoises. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted April 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2012 Hi DAS Didn't you remove the whole mechanism thingy on Widnes (including the spring) to improve appearances?... a practice which I'm following, so it's worrying to hear you say "it was a mistake"! Or am I getting it wrong? We only did that on the scenic section, the 80 or so points in the hidden siding were not modified - apart from the couple of "mistakes" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted April 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2012 I've removed them from mine since otherwise there's a loud and annoying click as the blades snap over. I too am using Tortoises. I find the noise of the click is drowned by the noise of the Tortoise. The click is a positive sign the points have changed, each to their own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alangdance Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Thanks RFS for the links to the photos. I had already found these but could do with a photo with the cover removed showing the spring. I was hoping to see if it was posible to drill out the spring from the top. Just to let every one know the slips are working just find but as stated above want to get rid of the loud and annoying click as the blades snap over and have it drive slowly across like the rest of my points. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted April 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2012 I was hoping to see if it was posible to drill out the spring from the top. Just to let every one know the slips are working just find but as stated above want to get rid of the loud and annoying click as the blades snap over and have it drive slowly across like the rest of my points. Alan I've looked at ways of removing the spring with the slips in situ (and ballasted) but concluded that the risk of damaging the tie bar is too great. I've already got plans for a layout redesign and will remove the springs as part of that. I find the loud click as the blades snap over is clearly audible above the sound of the Tortoises. And I don't really need positive feedback that the points have changed as I trust my Tortoises to do as they're told. So far I've not been disappointed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Solly Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 One of my modelling mates uses Tortoise with Peco points - leaves the springs in as he operates Tortoise via a non-locking switch so no powerremains to hold the blades over & he knows it has moved over, by the clicking as well as LED indication. As mentioned above, each to their own. . If it works for you, that is the most important thing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
retbsignalman Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Hi! I wouldn't describe the removal of the spring as a mistake or for that matter a myth. The reason I went for Tortii was to have a more gentle and prototypical movement of the blades. The SEEP and Peco motors I had used previously seemed to flick the blades over quite fiercly which I felt would eventually cause wear and tear damage to the tie bar and I've noticed the whole tie bar to blade assembly seems a bit weak, especially on Code 75 points. Taking out the spring allows the blades to be slowly and gently moved and if the whole assembly is set up accurately and adjusted properly, the supplied wire will be more than adequate to hold the blades in place without the need for the spring (acting if you will as an FPL). It would, to me at least, seem odd to have a spring 'assisting' the movement (swiftly and flicking the blades across thereby negating the need for a Tortoise) when the whole mechanism is designed to not have one............ might just as well have stuck with the solenoid machines. IMHO Tortoise supply that gauge wire to work the tie bar for a reason, that being that it is adequate to do the job without any interferance from springs! In case you were wondering, yes I have tried keeping the spring, but wasn't greatly impressed with the performance. Each indeed to their own! Cheers, Graeme Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted April 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2012 The need to remove the spring is a myth. Our layout has nearly 100 points, all driven by Tortoise, and we only removed the springs on a couple (which was a mistake). I wouldn't describe the removal of the spring as a mistake or for that matter a myth. It is a myth that it is a requirement, when there is an alternative. Given I said that WE had made a mistake then you will have to accept that it was indeed a mistake. The reason I went for Tortii was to have a more gentle and prototypical movement of the blades. cough ... If the points are on a scenic section then there is an argument that the movement looks slightly better with the spring removed, but the extra hold the spring gives can outweigh that. However I would still say that using a stiffer spring and keeping the Peco spring is far better in the fiddle yard, if the supply fails to the Tortoises and they ease off the trains don't derail as the blades are still held over against the stock rails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
retbsignalman Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 It is a myth that it is a requirement, when there is an alternative. Given I said that WE had made a mistake then you will have to accept that it was indeed a mistake. 'twould appear I've managed to upset you by implying that in my opinion the removal of the spring was a requirement and you'll see that I set out my reasoning. It seems that non removal works for you which is great. Removal worked for me!! (see statement above 'regards, Graeme' in my initial reply) cough ... (I trust that wasn't an 'I think you'll find...' cough...., they are the worst and possibly incurable!) However I would still say that using a stiffer spring and keeping the Peco spring is far better in the fiddle yard, if the supply fails to the Tortoises and they ease off the trains don't derail as the blades are still held over against the stock rails. I refer to my earlier 'each to their own' statement whilst also pointing out that that was my opinion based upon what works for me, both on the scenic and fiddle yard areas of the layout. The basis of the thread has been veered from slightly, but it opens possibilities for readers to take best practice from many modellers. Cheers G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted April 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2012 each to their own. Sorry, I get frustrated when I've already made points which are subsequently re-raised, this is a general comment not a specific go at you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
retbsignalman Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Sorry, I get frustrated when I've already made points which are subsequently re-raised, this is a general comment not a specific go at you. None taken..... ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Just for the record, in case it helps people make up their mind what might be best for them, this is what the makers of Cobalt motors say on the subject:- GET RID OF SNAP ACTION SPRINGS! Cobalt has a smooth, positive action and there is no need whatsoever for any over-centre springs or snap action devices in the turnouts that it powers. Besides - why would you want them to “snap†as they change when the steady movement of Cobalt is far more reliable and much more prototypical! So... for best results and greater realism...REMOVE the snap-springs from Peco or similar points and turnouts. And when advising on how to improve appearances by removing the spring housing entirely… You may be very happy with your turnouts as they are and that is just fine. Do take the springs out though... Please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted April 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2012 Just for the record, in case it helps people make up their mind what might be best for them, this is what the makers of Cobalt motors say on the subject:- GET RID OF SNAP ACTION SPRINGS! Cobalt has a smooth, positive action and there is no need whatsoever for any over-centre springs or snap action devices in the turnouts that it powers. Besides - why would you want them to “snap†as they change when the steady movement of Cobalt is far more reliable and much more prototypical! So... for best results and greater realism...REMOVE the snap-springs from Peco or similar points and turnouts. And when advising on how to improve appearances by removing the spring housing entirely… You may be very happy with your turnouts as they are and that is just fine. Do take the springs out though... Please. And if the OP uses Cobalt that advice might be applicable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Fair do's Das, but there could well be a few (if not more) potential (if not actual) cobalt users drawn to this post (like I was) who, being novices (like I am), think Tortoise and Cobalt point motors do have their differences... but are essentially alternatives to achieve the same slow and steady operation. It was when you said "Our layout has nearly 100 points, all driven by Tortoise, and we only removed the springs on a couple (which was a mistake)" that I got a bit worried!... having just completed the removal of the spring mechanism from more than 20 points!! Should point out that it was your superb trackwork on Widnes that convinced me that improving peco was the way to go (for me)! Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 why would you want them to “snap†as they change when the steady movement of Cobalt is far more reliable and much more prototypical! So... for best results and greater realism... Except if you are trying to model a layout with EP points, in which case a snap action is prototypical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted June 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 6, 2012 As it happens I only recently retrospectively changed my turnout motors on Fisherton Sarum to Cobalts as can be read on my blog here and I can confirm that that they operate Peco points with the springs still fitted without any issues. The wire supplied with the Cobalts is certainly man enough to do so, unlike the Tortoises, without replacing for a thicker gauge. I have however now removed the springs on the turnouts purly for aesthetic reasons to removed the unprototypical spring housing etc and my modifications can be seen in this blog post. I do have a double slip on the layout but have left the springs in this as they are not easily removed once the track has been layed and they are more discrete that with the Turnouts. If I was using Cobalts in an area not visble such as hidded trackwork, fiddle yards etc I would just like Dave (Beast) suggested keep the springs in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I'm going 'manual' for point operation (still finalising my TOU) and am removng the spring unit and all that goes with it... for aesthetic reasons as well as smooth operation. My current approach involves replacing the sleepers beyond the tie bar with a 'block' of 4 taken from a length of streamline. Saves a lot of messing around with the pair that incorporate the spring unit, leaving just one of the 'oversized' sleepers with it's ends trimmed. Here's a photo... I've not yet trimmed the 'handles' off the tie bar (needed for testing) but will do so before fitting in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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