Model Railway Exhibitions ? Time for a change?

[Xerces Fobe2]

Having been involved with many model railway exhibitions of the last 30 years + either as an organiser, steward, exhibitor of paying visitor I have never felt so concerned about their future as I currently am

From my experience many Shows now are now experiencing having falling attendances which is having dire consequences as detailed below

• · Shows making a net loss rather than a profit!
  
• · Traders losing money
  
• · Exhibitors effectively subsiding Shows as the Model Railway Clubs have cannot generate enough revenue to pay all the expenses.
  

Hall rents, travel costs have all increased by a large amount however admission fees to Model Rail Show are @ the price of a medium-large coffee in your local Costabucks Nero! IMO we need to be bold and revisit admission fees for our Shows

I do not want to re-ignite the debate about specific admission fee issues such as Senior Citizens discounts as this has been done to death on RMweb and many other Forums already, however I think action is needed if we are to save the Model Railway Exhibition from potential extinction

 

Currently the CMRA provides some services such as exhibition insurance for all its affiliated clubs having negotiated what is effectively a standard template for the cost of insurance for model railway shows and it works very well. – So why not develop this type of model further for other areas of our hobby and make railway modelling look more professional with a structure a defined purpose and identity with supporting high quality documentation

Here is my vision of a potential way forward.

 

The bargaining power of any collective is always better than the individual therefore let’s assume that could bring together many model railways clubs under one umbrella (RMweb/BRM/Warners) or develop the current CMRA model. We would have to and market ourselves effectively as a UK wide organisation with local branches. I am not however suggesting that any Model Railway Club loses its identity or subsumes power however they would have to meet certain improved standards to be part of this collective and have a sort of kite mark? As a UK wide organisation we could have the power to negotiate better deals for hall hire set and an increased standard tariff for admission charges based on size of show, hall etc.

 

I could go on however the purpose of my post is to spark a debate – some of you will think this ismad idea others not, however please ask yourselves the question Does the current situation with regards to the organisation and running of Model Railway Exhibitions have a long term future!?

 

Nigel

[Metr0Land]

IMHO the biggest single problem is geeting bums on seats (or people through the door at any rate). Solve that and most of the problems will ease. Yes there are other problems but it's struck me lately that the fundamental economcs/profitiablity/ails are mostly driven by the entrance volumes.

 

One thing that's also struck me lately is that methods of advertising seem to have hardly changed. Adverts in local papers, adverts in magazines and entries in eg rmweb calendar, signs on the main road.

 

Like Mark Twain's death, the demise of model railways has oft been forecast in my lifetime (Scalextric outselling trains in the 60's, computer games outselling trains more recently etc) yet it always bounces back.

 

I'm encouraged at the volume of young (mostly lads) who are engaged in railway modelling and trainspotting so there's plenty of latent interest in these hobbies being acceptable in volume.

 

Younger people are growing up in an era of electronic social media. I don't profess to understand it all but it does look to me like these avenues aren't being used nearly enough to general interest/awarenes of events/'coolness' etc etc and that this is an area where we should be able to penetrate markets better. I'm not just talking about passive adverts on web pages which are ok if you're looking for it in the first place, but something more pro-active or viral.

[Colin_McLeod]

There are three aspects to this. The admission charge to the public, the cost of running the exhibition and the charge to be made to traders attending.

 

Admission charge:

 

I think that prices of admission are in general too low compared to other forms of entertainment (concerts, cinema, football match etc)

 

There is a saying that "you get what you pay for" If the admission price is low, there may be an assusmption that the exhibition is not worth going to.

 

IMHO the organisers need to estimate how many people they expect to attend, and divide the total cost plus surplus by that number to get a realistic admission price that is consistent with their expectations. If they think that is too high to attract people, then revisit the costs or cancle the show. If it looks too low (and something that equates to the price of a cup of coffee is too low) then be bold and increase the price, thus increasing the surplus.

 

If the numbers do not stack up, and if you really really want to run the show, then be prepared to subsidise it and/or ask others to do so.

 

 

Cost of running the exhibition

 

The idea if increasing buying power as outlined by the OP is worthy of debate.

Also note that the exhibitors could also get together to demand an increased price for attending the exhibition and no longer be happy to be "honoured" at being invited.

 

 

Charge to be made to traders attending

 

Perhaps the deal with traders also needs to be revisited. All traders attending are there for one main reason (in addition to enjoying the exhibition) and that is to further their business. If they are making money out of the show, then they should pay a suitable amount to the organisers. If not, then why are they there?

 

 

In summary, if you are interested in a surplus, then the whole exhibition needs to be approached as a business venture with a business like approach. If you are merely running a show for fun, then remember that doing so costs money.

 

 

 

Just my initial thoughts to get the debate going.

[GC Jack]

Having just come back from a show that was clearly on the borderline, I feel I could make a comment.

 

The costs for me as an exhibitor has now gone way beyond what most shows can pay. I had to find my own accomodation and I made a substantial loss. I don't know if other exhibitors are in the same position, but I have decided to sell my layout as the cost outweighs the benefit for me - quite substantially.

 

I sort of like the idea of grouping together but there are real snags.

 

Some local shows cannot afford high quality layouts and never will be able to. So you can't charge a basic rate for for every show it wouldn't be value for money. For most punters local shows are a marginal attraction and are very price sensitive.

 

I suspect that probably many of these smaller shows will not have a viable future as they are; and club open days - where they have suitable facilities - will eventually replace them.

 

I suspect that the local show is a British phenomena and maybe one that has had its day.

 

Jack

[roundhouse]

No doubt the recent predicted hike in fuel costs will have a signifiacant effect on exhibitors expenses. We try to make allowances in our expenses for such but there is al imit as to howm uch we can predict this. I try to be on the higher side with my fuel expenses so I can often take less than htat forecast rather than ask for more. Of course if every one did this then it might not help the organisers planning but at least it means they wont have an unexpected shortfall for this particular part of the expense.

 

Regarding hotels, we sometimes pay for our own accommodation especially if it is a small show or on the border of travelling each day. After all, we do shows as we normally enjoy doing them.

 

However we cant fund all shows we do as not all my operators can afford such (and our own income has been reduced a fair chunk at the moment).

 

I also quite often hear smaller traders talking about it being marginal at many shows and whilst some might always say that i can often see they must struggle especially when being next or opposite a trader that clearly hasnt had much custom.

 

Despite seeing osem shows get quieter, many are still busy and the one last weekend we attended seemed to be pretty busy depsite it being a relatively newcomer and the hot sunny weather.

 

Ian

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Having managed Railex in Aylesbury for the eight years, I try to ensure the show is successful, we have to balance the books, and set a fair price for admission and trade stand rent, This year our numbers were a bit down on the previous couple of years although this was due to the first weekend of very hot weather this year rather than anything to do with the show itself.

Like most shows we pay out of pocket expenses for exhibitors which will include van hire, fuel cost, insurance, and accommodation if needed with breakfast, quite a few layouts we have when you add all the costs up come well over £1000 per layout.

I try to visit all layouts, demos and trade to get feedback and to ensure we keep everyone happy, some traders will say takings are down while others will say they had a really good weekend and want to be invited back.

As for advertising the interweb has got a bigger place for getting the message out but traditional forms of communication are still very important, many ways of promoting a show are free, it seems that the shows that have lost visitors don’t promote themselves for example the Chatham Show.

 

David

[Kenton]

I'm not quite sure what the proposal is. But if it is to make shows more commercial (or appear to be) then I am against it.

 

Is attendance at shows falling? As a punter having to fight my way through the crowds - I don't think so.

 

Is the amount of money spent by punters at shows falling? Quite possibly. But I think that is a reflection of the matching to trade stands to the punter's needs as well as possibly dwindling money in the punters pocket and the availability to spend outside the show. (We used to have only model shops and poor mail order, now every trader worth doing business with has an internet site). I for one am not spending any less on model railways, or at shows. But if I think the trade is not good enough for the show it is a big factor in deciding if I should bother going. Especially if the traveling is distant.

 

Do the shows depend on catering adding to the profit. If they do then their game needs to be upped. I for one hardly ever buy food or drink at a show.

 

Is the price of entry limiting to my choice of show. No, for me this has never been a deciding factor. I would guess in the overall picture it is of limited importance compared to the cost of the journey. If someone is quibbling over paying £5 or £10 entry fee then are they likely to be the sort of punter who is going to spend significant money at the show with the trade. So I think there is plenty of scope in adjusting the entry fee. Even, dare I say it, charging a nominal sum (eg £1) for parking.

 

There is another issue, that is very much to do with commercialisation. I do not know of any show that openly produces public accounts of running their show. I am sure most punters expect the income to be based on entrance fees and traders rents with outgoings to be the venue rental, layout expenses, and some admin costs with the "profit" going to the club. That "profit" should be adequate and reasonable. No one expects a loss but large profits are also unacceptable even more so if that is going into the pockets of some commercial organisation.

 

The problem with having some "big body" organiser is that shows could become standardised and appear all the same loosing that individuality. We could end up with a Warley/NEC in each "region" draining layouts, trade and punters from all the others.

 

Besides - just think of the politics.

[DavidLong]

I have never organised a show so my observations are those of an occasional exhibitor and more usually a visitor.

1. I have felt for many years that there are just too many shows. In the Railway Modeller for September 1961 (I think the first issue that I bought) there were adverts for 7 shows. In October 1971 (I seem to have mislaid the September issue!) there were 30 shows. The September 2012 issue of the Modeller has listings for a staggering 67 shows in September alone. Not only does this spread the number of likely visitors more thinly, crucially it spreads the quality of the exhibits equally thinly.

2. That last point is particularly relevant in relation to the analogy with cups of coffee. Don't tell those battling against the invasion in Totnes but I and a lot of others like Costa because we know what we are getting. The quality of the products on sale and also in many cases the environment in which it is sold is consistent whether one is in West Hampstead (a favourite) or Manchester. Sadly this is not the case with many model railway exhibitions. Out of those 67 shows in RM I shall be attending one, Expo EM North and the reason - consistency, I know what I'll be getting and it will be at the quality end of the spectrum. In many cases, especially at the smaller shows, the product and environment are so poor that even free entry would be too much and I have been to a few over the last 50 years.

It isn't only small shows where the environment can put one off attending, there is one well-known mega show that, having attended on a couple of occasions, I will never attend again as the whole experience is just too gruesome to contemplate even if the price of entry was reduced to the equivalent of a small latte!

As others have mentioned so far on this thread, the cost of getting to shows let alone paying to get in has increased and at a time of difficult economic circumstances for many. We may be due for a shakeout of many of that 67 in RM and, in many cases, few tears would be shed in the wider community. As GC Jack observed above, it may be one pecularly British phenomenon that has had its day.

 

David

[Kenton]

Perhaps the deal with traders also needs to be revisited.  All traders attending are there for one main reason (in addition to enjoying the exhibition) and that is to further their business.  If they are making money out of the show, then they should pay a suitable amount to the organisers.  If not, then why are they there?

 

They are not there just to make a profit. The MRS is the cheapest and most focused form of marketing and advertising available to them. Possibly even more effective than the magazines. The trader gets tho opportunity to personally interact with customers, gaining insight into new potential products, gaining critical customer feedback and developing relationships with customers and even other symbiotic traders. It should never be about simply sticking the product on a table and hoping that some passing punter may glance as they pass and throw money at them. I have seen a few traders who act like this, no prices, don't care about the waiting customer, not competent to answer questions and generally only interested in taking money. All the traders should be charged a fee, but yes some more innovative approach - anything that increases the number, or more importantly quality of trade at the show.

[definate maybe]

I dont know about countrywide but in East Anglian the size of the exhibition has been scaled down quite dramatically over the last 15 years. I used to make yearly trips to both Ipswich (home town) and Colchester. Both used to take up 6 or 7 rooms at large schools/ colleges in the relevent towns. Both are now a 1/4 of the size located in halls and neither of them are actually in the towns themselves. Last time I heard the Colchester exhibition has moved to Marks Tey Village Hall. With Ipswich being my home town it doesnt bother me if I go and the size/ quality/ interest is down as its no distance whatsoever but I do think twice about going to shows that I used to regularly attend which are that bit further away. I am more likely to go to Ally Pally, Warley or Peterborough as I am more likely so see the depth of layouts that will keep me interested (not neccasarily a higher quality of model but a variety of things to look at)

I think all local shows I have attended have been well supported. Whether it is the smaller groups in the local church hall or the larger MRC's with their Schools/ Sports centres so I dont think it is the footfall that has meant the show sizes have decreased. I have never considered the pricing structure but I am sure that a £1 or £2 increase in adult ticket costs wouldnt put many people off. It is still a fairly cheap event and would still keep most ticket prices in the single figure range.

A few years back someone said that the local shows were mainly downsizing due to health and safety/ insurance costs and worries, which if it is true is a said state to be in. I cant think of many things safer than walking around a hall and then standing in front of a table (in simplistic terms)

[Suzie]

Perhaps what we need is fewer but larger shows. The cost of venues is increasingly resulting in a much more crowded experience. I would have expected to see lower attendance last Saturday given the weather but I am sure that it must have been up on the previous year - the hall could not have taken many more visitors. we need venues that will give a better customer experience and that means bigger.

 

Catering is a big money maker, and if the catering is good people will buy, but it is hard to provide good catering in a poor venue. I suspect that most clubs nowadays are not big enough to put on a big enough exhibition to do a good job, and the UK is very poorly served with few suitable venues so for many there is no option but to plod on as usual..

 

Perhaps groups of clubs need to get together and pool resources to put on a really good show. If there were a few more Warley type shows I am sure that things would be better for the visitors, exhibitors and traders. If they were run by groups of clubs we would see the money retained in the hobby and entrance fees retained at a reasonable rate - commercial operators will always price the entrance charge at what they can get away with without thought for attracting people to the hobby.

[37114]

I think shows will source more and more "local" layouts certainly for larger layouts with the travelling and accomodation costs of inviting a big layout becoming more and more prohibitive, the challenge being to maintain variety of layouts year on year. I also believe that shows that differentiate themselves stand the best chance of long term success, while maintaing a broad enough church to attract the local families.

[Tim Hale]

I have never organised a show so my observations are those of an occasional exhibitor and more usually a visitor.

1. I have felt for many years that there are just too many shows. br />

David

Totally agree and I exercise my discretion by not attending those events which I consider to be incapable of providing value for money (my costs of attending can be considerable) and those whose quality is consistently high.

 

This does not mean that they have to be large - some smaller shows are excellent, Camrail and Railwells are such, conversely some large shows are simply awful in terms of quality, venue, cost and atmosphere and on this score Bristol ticks every box.

 

I offer no solutions to this conundrum as market forces will resolve the issue.

 

Tim

[298]

Some local shows cannot afford high quality layouts and never will be able to.

 

I'm a little puzzled by this comment, my interpretation of it (based from my own observations) is there is a certain "league" of modellers and exhibition managers who don't seem to push themselves to improve their standards, or who read secondhand magazines from 20 years ago and think that what was impressive then is an acceptable standard for today. There is no reason to accept that a small village hall show will reflect a poor quality, but if such an event fails to attract nothing but tat then to me it's no great loss if they don't get a few quid and I stay at home (assuming I'm able to find out what's there beforehand and make an informed decision whether to go or not). I can accept a small show won't have many large layouts there, but large doesn't always mean high quality lots of moderately sized layouts are still able to be transported in cars, and the short distance travelled means expenses should be nil.

 

I actually thought the show circuit was doing really well, certainly judging by the number of exhibitions that seem to be about. Should one deem to be unviable, then you can assume others might be able to pick up the slack and do better from it- I suppose it's like the doom laden situation where Pubs are closing every week, but you don't hear about how well the sucessful ones are doing.

[298]

Perhaps groups of clubs need to get together and pool resources to put on a really good show. If there were a few more Warley type shows I am sure that things would be better for the visitors, exhibitors and traders. If they were run by groups of clubs we would see the money retained in the hobby and entrance fees retained at a reasonable rate - commercial operators will always price the entrance charge at what they can get away with without thought for attracting people to the hobby.

 

The only positive thing I'd say about the Warley show is the entrance fee does look to be good value compared to other events at the NEC, it's just a shame the venue seems to think so little of the event that it gets pushed into what is nothing better than a poorly lit, grotty warehouse with rip-off catering. I don't know whether they've thought of charging a higher entrance fee, perhaps this is unjustifiable since if you paid double what you's pay to get into a large show, you probably wouldn't get to see twice as many exhibits or be able to spend twice as long there.

 

I'd readily admit I'd prefer to see any profits retained within the hobby, and suppose a show makes just a pound profit per person then it seems to be a very small price to pay for all of the voluntary time and effort that goes into an event. But then again, if the organising club doesn't share the same modelling interests as me, would it be churlish to ignore their efforts and only go to certain shows where I think my money would be better spent....?

[Giles]

Personally, I find that 'quality is all' for me at an exhibition. I have been to too many where the layouts are of indifferent standard, and then often operated as stop-start train sets, and I've been unable to even buy a bottle of MEK!

I tend to only ever go to shows that I know are going to be good, and I'm quite happy to pay a higher entrance price for the privilege. I also find that the trade stands tend to be of greater variety and more use, as well.

 

Therefore exhibitions targeted at the enthusiast more than the public are the ones I go to, but of necessity, they have to set the bar higher, and spend more - and most importantly - be very selective about what they are presenting each year.

 

My opinion only! :-)

[rodshaw]

Frankly I hate the big shows more and more, I think they're overdone. Too crowded, too many layouts. I wouldn't be bothered at all if there were something of a decline at that end, rather than a growth. I prefer the more local shows (and toy fairs), just two or three small to medium sized rooms. Rather than go bigger in terms of organisation, I'd prefer it if things went the other way. If it cost even as much to get into a show as it does, say, to get into a lower league football match (£15-20), I'd stop going. I can understand the financial problems but I'd vote with my feet.

 

But that's just me as a punter, never having exhibited or helped to organise a show.

[chrisf]

One possible solution to the problem of catering at Warley is to find another catering outlet. Just upstairs from the poorly lit grotty warehouse - and what an apt description that is! - is a branch of the pub chain J D Wetherspoon. The RMweb meet took place there last year and that is recommendation enough for me. [That, and the fact that as a member of CAMRA I get a quantity of discount vouchers with my membership!]

 

Some of the more finescale-focused shows ought perhaps not to invite quite so many traders who sell the same things. That way it would be more worthwhile for the traders who do attend.

 

Chris

[Kenton]

Personally, I find that 'quality is all' for me at an exhibition. I have been to too many where the layouts are of indifferent standard, and then often operated as stop-start train sets, and I've been unable to even buy a bottle of MEK!

 

Although personal opinion respected of course. For me there is the side of shows where I feel happy to help out with such layouts. I like to see the hobby progress and develop and it is certainly not about the fantastic and "almost" unobtainable perfection of track standards or prototype perfection. The young and the inexperienced layout on the circuit is most welcome (they will potentially be the perfection of quality in the future) I would hate to see this encouragement confined to the mediocre small club open day. But I would not want a show full of it (what does happen with some "local" shows where the club drags out its old and tired modular layout that was first started by the committee when they were junior members. Sometimes I feel there is a real risk of scaring off the budding modeller with all these "perfect" and often enormous layouts which many modellers are unlikely ever to achieve. There is a fine line between inspirational and being overcome with depression after attending some shows.

[roundhouse]

We exhibit at both large and small shows and enjoy both types, both one day and two day shows.

 

Whilst some small shows might be less 'professional' set up, they can often be just as enjoyable to exhibit at and many of these small shows do have very good quality layouts.

 

One thing to bear in mind that most shows are put on by people giving up their spare time to organise and steward. This may mean that some clubs just dont want to run the risk of bankrupting the club or just dont have the manpower to organise larger shows.

 

Long may we continue to have such a variety of shows.

[Colin_McLeod]

The only positive thing I'd say about the Warley show is the entrance fee does look to be good value compared to other events at the NEC, it's just a shame the venue seems to think so little of the event that it gets pushed into what is nothing better than a poorly lit, grotty warehouse with rip-off catering.

 

I don't think that the NEC decides to "push" the Warley show into a "poorly lit, grotty warehouse with rip-off catering" There is a choice of halls available at NEC and you get the one you pay for.

 

http://www.thenec.co.uk/exhibitors/venue/halls

 

 

There is also a choice of catering.

 

http://www.thenec.co.uk/foodanddrink

[Andy Y]

nothing better than a poorly lit, grotty warehouse with rip-off catering.

 

It's the same poorly lit grotty warehouse that's been home to anything from the motor show to the clothes show over the years but they tend to be able to afford better lighting and shell schemes than model railways do. I'm not excusing it because I hate the lighting with a passion.

[Colin_McLeod]

The only positive thing I'd say about the Warley show is the entrance fee does look to be good value compared to other events at the NEC,

 

 

but they tend to be able to afford better lighting and shell schemes than model railways do.

 

 

Something to do with the entrance fee perhaps?

 

 

There is a link between the entrance fee and what can be afforded to make the venue pleasant?

 

As I said above "you get what you pay for"

[Andy Y]

Something to do with the entrance fee perhaps?

 

8)

 

If we have modellers who have a moan if admission rises much over a tenner (even considering the size, quality and time taken to get round a show) we'll get what we deserve.

[GC Jack]

Just to take up the point made by 298 about my comment about small shows with limited budgets.

 

I know a number of exhibitors with quality layouts (I assist in bookings for my local show). The owners know the value of their layouts and many will not even consider attending small local shows let alone cost for them.

 

In my experience, even the small high quality layouts can result in three figure sums for a club. With a few hundred people paying just £3.00 on average most small events cannot afford this unless they have access to a local high quality layout.

 

Jack