Dale Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 There are a few different ways, from choc block, to philips joints or even those little automotive clips but how do you connect all those pesky droppers to your power bus wires? I ask as I am about to start doing the same on my OO layout and would like to understand the pro's and con's of my options before making a choice. So, how do you do it? D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Soldering every time, but then I enjoy soldering..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2012 I'm an automotive clip user - have been for a dozen years since reading about them in Model Railroader. Soldering under the layout - and my baseboard is higher than some - is not my idea of fun. Others will tell you that they will fail, your hair will fall out and pestilence will be visited upon your home if you use them. Not my finding - I have long hair at nearly 64. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandman Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Both clips and soldering are as easy as each other. Some, like Oldudders, would prefer not to solder under a baseboard and I probably fall into that camp as well. On my old static layout I used clips, on my new portable layout which I could turn on its side I soldered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I tend to run my bus with thick wire between electrical connectors about 2ft apart, then run a pair of wires off of that into two (or multiple piggybacked, depending on the amount of wires to get in) then simply put them into the electrical connectors and tighten with a screwdriver. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLT 0109 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Hi Dale. On my fixed layour, mine are done pretty much as described by Cromptonnut but many of the connectors have two wires under one screw and some were difficult to do because of that. Before I started, I wondered if the screws might work loose and I did go round checking them after about a year. At that time, some did take tightening but it has not proved to be a problem in the subsequent two years or so. The benefit is that it is easier to modify than soldered or clipped joints. In a similar vein (though not related to the power bus), i have used tiny screw-connectors for the street lamps etc so that they can be easily removed if needed but they have been a nightmare; though small, they are rather large for the thin wires and I found it difficult to get the screw to bite the wire sufficiently, also the screws were not captive so, if loosened too far, they fell out. Harold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2012 I've used terminal blocks on a previous layout, but that meant breaking the bus wire into sections. Never had any problems in 5 years of running... BUT My new layout is considerably larger and I want the bus wires to remain as integral as possible. I'll strip the bus at regular intervals and solder the droppers onto the bus wire. Very simple and effective - should have done it previously. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Like you Harold I have used chocblock for lighting and such like but found bootlace crimps on small wires to be a solution. Chock block screws make a mess of thin stranded wire, especially if 'enthusiastically tightened'. It means if you have to swap anything out there is no faffing about with your solder sucker under the baseboards. i do the same thing with point motors. The power bus is where i am horribly paranoid though, especially about signal degredation through high resistance joints or bad connections. I find using a slow moving class 08 sound chipped soon tells you where you have track problesm as the sound spluters or even dies. My first atempt at a layout was a disaster with reliable running an unatainable goal. On my current (and quite big?) layout i just want to make sure that i make the right choices and use the most reliable method offering the least volatage drop and lowest resistance possible from controller to decoder. 2.5mm solid copper bus wire and lots of droppers soldered to the underside of rails but its all for nothing idf the connection to the bus wires is shoddy. Hmmmmm, its not an easy choice. D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 choc blocks until fully tested then one by one soldered when I'm satisfied I'll not have to unsolder them. Old (red +black) 13A ring main single copper sheathed wire for the bus, droppers standard layout wire soldered to every length of track and every point - don't trust fishplates. Overkill with the droppers but only ever want to wire a layout once and right first time. Although I enjoy wiring a layout I have no desire to go back and try to find a fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 With you on the last point Kenton. The more droppers the better. I put two sets on each section of flexi for redundancy in case one conection deteriates. overkill... probably but like you I dont want to have to rewire if it can be helped. D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2012 With you on the last point Kenton. The more droppers the better. I put two sets on each section of flexi for redundancy in case one conection deteriates. overkill... probably but like you I dont want to have to rewire if it can be helped. D. Totally agree about the droppers. 2 per metre of flexi isn't really overkill - and should ensure longevity of the wiring. Like Kenton, I want to make the electrics "bulletproof". Btw, Dale - glad to note you're a Gilmour fan! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 My bus is a pair of solid wires taken from ring mains wtith individual chocolate block connectors threaded along them, the bus wires being threaded through 4 width chocolate block connectors screwed to the underside of baseboard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted October 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2012 Hi all, The bus wires I have aree 5mm cooker wire... All it takes is a quick cut of the insulation, stick a bit of flux paste and dab with the soldering iron... Hey Presto - solid joints to the droppers. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcolmy Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 On my now dismantled Arley layout I used choc/terminal blocks. For my new layout (as I hate soldering under baseboards too!) I am going to try '8 way double earth terminal blocks' available from RS Components. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnysa Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Layout 10' x 20' (3mx6m) DCC bus is house hold wire droppers soldered to every piece of track irrispective of length including points. To each their own but I solder all joints. Will not use any type of wire joiner for bus or droppers. Cheers Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyDuty Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 3M Scotchlok suitcase connectors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilNE Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Another one for soldering here. No problems soldering upside down under baseboards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2012 Two wires on every length of rail (yes even the 1/2" bit) and 10 on the inset stuff - all soldered to the main bus, the way Physicsman is planning. The bus wires are run and then stripped at intervals and the droppers soldered on, I use red / black for the main bus, red / black for droppers (and yellow for frog wires from the Tortoise, two of them too) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 22, 2012 3M Scotchlok suitcase connectors. Useless devices for any wiring use, IMHO! Haven't seen any mention of crimped joints (However I use HD choc blocks and thick cable - 2.5mm) Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted October 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 22, 2012 If it is going to travel then solder, solder, solder and Kenton's bomb proof method is great. If it is a stay at home job then wire it like you would your house - neatly and with easy to exchange sections. Still solder stuff though if your boards are 'demountable'. I agree that the Scotchlock Connectors are not that clever, but that might have been me being useless. I removed all that I had installed and went back to the solder to BUS method. I prefer terminal blocks at board ends for carry over through the usual PC wire connector thingys (15 way usually). Mr Burkin supplies very good red and black BUS wire. Just like Beast the colour coding should be as simple as possible. (Beast isn't simple, his wiring is). I happen to use green for my frog juicer but hadn't thought of doubling up the frog supply; good idea Beast. Oh yes, if you don't mind shelling out a bit, the Hex Juicer is absolutely superb for a lectrickery duffer like moi. There was a thread on here somewhere where someone had the neatest under-board wiring set up I've ever seen; looms, connectors, grips - beautiful stuff. P @ 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyDuty Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Useless devices for any wiring use, IMHO! Haven't seen any mention of crimped joints (However I use HD choc blocks and thick cable - 2.5mm) Keith Keith, they're very commonly used over here with no issues. Using original 3M products seems to be key - there are many no-name knockoffs that are poor quality. Also properly sizing the connector to the wire size is very important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I'm an automotive clip user - have been for a dozen years since reading about them in Model Railroader. Soldering under the layout - and my baseboard is higher than some - is not my idea of fun. Others will tell you that they will fail, your hair will fall out and pestilence will be visited upon your home if you use them. Not my finding - I have long hair at nearly 64. They work fine when used as intended. Use the appropriate size and type of wire for the connectors (they are generally colour coded) and you will get a very good gas tight joint. Whetever method you use, think of the wiring as a whole as a system and source components designed to work together. It's the "this bit of wire will do" attitude that causes some people to experience problems. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I have a wiring centre on each baseboard, and connect all the feeds to that single point via any circuit breakers and occupancy detectors. Four-way 2.5mm^2 flexible jumper cables run from the wiring centre to the adjacent baseboards via Speakon connectors. Some simple baseboards just have the droppers connected directly to the Speakon sockets, others have tag strips, and others have chock blocks. Whatever suits the situation. I prefer to not 'Tee' off using Scotchloks because it simplifies fault finding if a single feed can be easily isolated from a screw terminal, but I would have no problem with their performance and I can see situations when I might use them for lighting and such like. If they are robust enough for in the car they are good enough on the layout if fitted correctly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted October 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2012 Scotchloks to provide a thick wire connection to terminal blocks so no soldering under the baseboard! Best to show a picture of one not yet fully in use (ie only 3 wires connected so far). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2012 As my layout is wired up in blocks for train detection and the terminals on the block detectors are all screws, any soldering would be pretty pointless so the bus (2.5mm mains cable) goes to regular 30A terminal blocks (choc blocks) and then 1,5mm cable to to the block detectors. 1.5mm or 1.0mm to 15A terminal blocks (Choc blocks again) under each track section, then flexible wire (24/0.2) soldered to the underside of each length of rail. Points and frogs are wired up using slightly thinner wire. Using this method and high current terminal blocks means I can get several wires in each block if required with extremely reliable connexion.. N.B. I don't use cheap blocks (market stall etc.) anymore as I found out to my cost how poor they can be. e.g. Stripped/jammed screw threads, cut wires because screw has a sharp end, even a split brass block on one occassion! Some won't even grip the wires properly because of poor screw end shape. Buy from a proper electrical store. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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