RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2012 Just seen this on the WNXX site: http://www.wnxx.com/content/161112/45015.htm Is this rusting pile of junk that was once a proud loco of the line supposed to be preserved? Is it not time that this and many other so called preserved pipe dreams were put out of their misery as surely there is no hope in hell this is ever going to move under its own power again. In the meantime it is wasting vaulable space as are many other examples of unrestored/unrestorable/pipedreams that seem to be cluttering up preserved sites up and down the country. I apologise if this has been discussed before but I am fed up with certain sections of the preservation movement (or lack thereof) being saddled with neglected eyesores such as this, time to weigh it in for scrap, now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Chambers Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Totally agree John,I can think of several preserved lines and one shameful example in particular which resemble linear scrap yards more than working railways- what impression they present to the average non enthusiast visitor ( on whom these lines are totally dependent ) beggars belief. OK, perhaps some of these wrecks are being kept for spares, but can they not be hidden out of public gaze? If not, surely,they must go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcolmy Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Yes I agree too. It would be far better IMHO to present less stuff but have the resources to maintain it in a good condition. I guess they are all someone's pipe dream though - waiting for the lottery win! Specifically the amount of stock decaying in storage alongside the Battlefield Line is particularly depressing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 The problem with enthusiasm is that logic doesn't always come into it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Remember " Duke of Gloucester" ?? Seriously, the same problem exists in all branches of preservation, loco., carriage and wagon. What seemed like a good idea that was initially funded, just withers on the vine. For example, in the steam loco. world, where is 42859, one of only three Crabs preserved, or any of the 72xx? There are still many Halls, Black 5s and WC/BB saved from Barry that are gradually returning to nature. In the diesel world, if sole survivors D5705 and D8233 cannot generate sufficient support to return to service a unique loco. class, what hope does "just another Peak" have? What are the %ages of class 50s preserved...and running? Some of the problem is that, with modern traction, it is easy to obtain your 100+ ton dream from the EWS, then you have to find somewhere to keep and restore it. Remember that puppy that followed you home? Mum ain't gonna look after your 37! gloomily, Peter C. (where the sun is STILL shining in WA!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2012 Is that a green peak with a TOPS number and full yellow panel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2012 Is that a green peak with a TOPS number and full yellow panel? It was blue but if they wait long enough looks like it's gonna be green!! Sorry but my shed is full of things I might mend or otherwise recycle in the future - human nature. I do think a certain level of junk is good for joe public to understand what these things were like before restoration but if course there should be a cull of some of the real dross. BTW - OP, thanks for using the term Demics - Great blast from the past! I hadn't heard that since my days working in the bus industry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welly Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2012 The problem with storing non-servicable stock on preserved lines is the lack of covered accomodation for them. Also the owners of the stock will need to live within reasonable travel distance to be able to work on them so it's no good bunging them into a big shed 200 miles away from the owners. It's not confined to the railway preservation either - there is a vintage boat yard not far from Lincoln and there are decaying hulks in that yard. My initial reaction was "What a dump!" but after a moment I realised,"I have visited preserved railways with sights just as bad!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 The problem with enthusiasm is that logic doesn't always come into it. In particular there's little grasp of the concept that most locos are withdrawn from service when they get worn out and expensive to maintain. So the class 37 that you've just bought will probably not be in top condition and will cost a fortune to look after. Totally agree John,I can think of several preserved lines and one shameful example in particular which resemble linear scrap yards more than working railways- what impression they present to the average non enthusiast visitor ( on whom these lines are totally dependent ) beggars belief. The Bluebell have a vast quantity of semi-derelict stock awaiting restoration. But they cover them with tarpaulins and store them at the back of Horstead Keynes yard behind more presentable stock so they don't spoil the view. There's no reason why other lines can't do this - or at the very least make sure that the first thing greeting visitors isn't a line of derelict diesels. According to Wikipedia (other sources of dubious knowledge are available): A twelfth example, 45015, was also sold into preservation, but not restored. Withdrawn in March 1986 with a seized traction motor, for which repair was not authorised,[7] 45015 was heavily cannibalised for spares to keep other Class 45s working. It remained at Toton, its home shed, until at least 1999.[8] The locomotive was moved to Shackerstone, on the Battlefield Line Railway, in 2002, still with the intention of restoration to mainline standard, despite requiring a replacement engine to be found.[9] In 2010 the host railway gave notice to the locomotive's owner that the still-unrestored 45015 needed to move to a new site. Having failed to find a buyer, it is likely that 45015 will be sold for scrap, although, as at November 2010, the derelict loco was still at Shackerstone.[10] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted November 17, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2012 The bus preservation movement also seems to suffer simliar pipe dreamers. Many a bus has been bought for preservation with good intent no doubt, then they get the bill for the first new set of wheel nuts and as soon as they start removing panels they discover exactly why LastStageSouthRibbleDown got shot of it so it sits in a yard or a shed accumulating storage bills for a couple of years before being carted off for scrap. Admittedly the bus preservation movement doesn't usually leave their demics by the side of the road I suppose, although there was that decaying Routemaster parked near the railway line at Angmering for a few years until recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted November 17, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2012 BTW - OP, thanks for using the term Demics - Great blast from the past! I hadn't heard that since my days working in the bus industry Cannot remember where I picked up the term from but I have always used the term 'demics' for any bus/train that is either failed, a cripple or a wreck. Don't know if it is a Midland's thing or something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 There was a face-ache group set up to restore 45015 (and 46035 i think) to mainline standard, funnily enough they never mentioned actually buying the locos or where the work was going to take place, who was going to do it, where the money was coming from etc etc etc. Another bunch of deamers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 The bus preservation movement also seems to suffer simliar pipe dreamers. Many a bus has been bought for preservation with good intent no doubt, then they get the bill for the first new set of wheel nuts and as soon as they start removing panels they discover exactly why LastStageSouthRibbleDown got shot of it so it sits in a yard or a shed accumulating storage bills for a couple of years before being carted off for scrap. Admittedly the bus preservation movement doesn't usually leave their demics by the side of the road I suppose, although there was that decaying Routemaster parked near the railway line at Angmering for a few years until recently. I think that has gone for painting or something. If its the one by the massive greenhouses full of caravans. There was a single deck open topper there that is meant to be getting a new floor, and my mate's newly restored Leyland National. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neil Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2012 Dissenting voice; I like a bit of grot and while I realise that many in the preservation movement like fresh paint and polished brass it can be a bit cloying if not leavened with a bit of decay. I realise that this is probably a minority view, but then again 'tired' stock dumped in full view is in the minority too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 All the poor things want is a good clean, plate over the rusty bits and seal em up to prevent water ingress then a quick repaint to make em at least look OK. Shouldn't be a huge or costly job, minimum skills required. They don't all have to be runners. I'm sure the future generation would enjoy rebuilding it in a good few years time. Scrap a Peak - what's the world coming to ??!! Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2012 BTW - OP, thanks for using the term Demics - Great blast from the past! I hadn't heard that since my days working in the bus industry Demic has always seemed to me to be a Southern (Region) term - Ian (Olddudders) might be able to confirm. I definitely never came across it among home bred Western men - it was usually 'cripple', or 'scrapper', or, in South Wales 'broker' on our part of the railway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2012 Demic has always seemed to me to be a Southern (Region) term - Ian (Olddudders) might be able to confirm. I definitely never came across it among home bred Western men - it was usually 'cripple', or 'scrapper', or, in South Wales 'broker' on our part of the railway. I heard it both in my time at Victoria Coach Station and at Western National in Plymouth. I always thought it was a kind of verbal anagram of mechanically defective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 in scotland well glasgow at least a failed train was called a stookie. which was also the term for a plaster cast you would get on a broken arm. nowadays we refer to them as a failure. did hear the term demic used in yorkshire though refering to a failed train. going back to the subject of scrapping, sadly I think there will be a few locos get scrapped in the future as the number of volunteers on preserved railways dry up. they should scrap that green kettle first though whats its number... 4472 though its already (still) in bits Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 As long as they use the money to knock up two replica A3s Darrel I'll gie you that! Whilst I accept the general spirit of the thread I'd be loathe to chop up a split-box peak. I know, but they're so much better than the other versions! ;-) Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2012 "they should scrap that green kettle" Maybe this isn't the right place to say this, but I'm getting a bit fed up with hearing that derisive description of one of Britain's greatest inventions. I no more want to hear people talking about diseasels either. What's next? "we are southern, super southern, no-one likes us, we don't care!" "come on you Gresley" This hobby and this forum should be about a genuine appreciation of all things railway,it would be nice if people could be a bit more grown up and a bit less dismissive of things they don't appreciate themselves. Sorry if I have overspent on my rant allowance....... Edit I also realise that whilst this is the place that finally prompted me to bite on this issue I shouldnt hijack the OPs thread so please go here to reply http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64389-i-hate-diseasels-and-kettles/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 It was ment to be tounge in cheek Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 It was ment to be tounge in cheek Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2012 It was ment to be tounge in cheek Colin OK Sorry if I'm over-reacting and you are not the only one, hence I did not attribute the quote to you. I just don't see why people need to use the term Kettle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Grates with me too, if you'll pardon the pun. It's a bit like all those boring xenophobic jokes that stopped being funny round about 1795. ;-) Anyway, on with the show!I still think we need ex-split box 45s with Waverley pedigree! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissRailPassion Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Just seen this on the WNXX site: http://www.wnxx.com/...61112/45015.htm Is this rusting pile of junk that was once a proud loco of the line supposed to be preserved? Is it not time that this and many other so called preserved pipe dreams were put out of their misery as surely there is no hope in hell this is ever going to move under its own power again. In the meantime it is wasting vaulable space as are many other examples of unrestored/unrestorable/pipedreams that seem to be cluttering up preserved sites up and down the country. I apologise if this has been discussed before but I am fed up with certain sections of the preservation movement (or lack thereof) being saddled with neglected eyesores such as this, time to weigh it in for scrap, now. Lets begin then and start scrapping ho ho.One thing the preservation movement teaches us is that rusting old hulks can eventually be restored and many of the old wrecks have now begun an afterlife bringing satisfaction and joy to many. It may take 10 or 15 years for some of the wrecks to move up the line and into a restoration shed. In 20 years that Peak may well be running and looking smart. Imagine if the old wrecked rotting class 29 had been put aside instead of cut up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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