Hornby's 2013 Announcements

[phil-b259]

The CAD for DoG shows holes for handrail supports on the boiler. I don't see why separate handrails for the smoke deflector would be an issue?

 

Also, what would really be the extra cost to have two boiler moulds for the P2, if they wanted to sell the Railroad version with moulded handrails? Surely these days you can just quickly knock out a mould with a CNC machine?

 

I don't mind if lamp irons and other bits & bobs are moulded, but handrails are just too prominent.

 

I imagine that even with "clever design" the smoke deflectors would have to be produced as a separate item. Thus in theory it would be possible to make one with separate handrails for the main range if Hornby wanted to. The question is how much extra cost would that represent in fitting the handrails? On the face of it not much but as Tesco were famous for saying "Every little helps" and the less assembly time each model takes as well as the less parts required, the grater the savings at the end of the production run and hence a lower price when it comes to market.

[orford]

Actually the lining is just as important as the glazing. The completely incorrect (and therefore ridiculous-looking) lining on the Railroad range is precisely what has put me off from buying any of them.....and will continue to do so.

 

Lining is a pig to apply by transfers at the best of times and almost impossible by hand unless you are an artistic genius.

 

You wouldn't buy, say a King Arthur in shocking pink, would you? So why buy any loco with lining which is completely the wrong colour?

 

(Confession time here: There speaks one who bought the original Hornby/Triang 'Red Hall' back in the early 1970's, way before JK Rowling was even thought of ....but that's a different story AND it was repainted within a week into proper Swindon green!)

[DLPG]

Out of all the offerings I'm pleased to see the Sentinel. The preservation group that I'm involved with currently own one of these fantastic locomotives. When our group took on the locomotive from Tarmac it was in the very Green Tarmac livery. It currently carries the current Tarmac vehicle livery but is to be repainted back into the green in the near future. It is currently on display at the NRM Shildon and requires some minor repairs to return to service.

 

See Below new Hornby offering

Next Below - DLPG Sentinel working in Wolsingham back in 2004 after last restoration and carrying the Tarmac road vehicle livery.

Further Below - As the group received it ahead of restoration

[coachmann]

Design clever is to common-sense what revenue protection officer is to conductor. While I could never condone going back to moulded boiler handrails on locomotives...aggghhhhh.......it is plain common sense to mould handles on 4mm scale carriages and to make coach bogies in as few pieces as possible. This is where plastic moulding excels.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Hornby have also seriously addressed the branding issue of Railroad v ‘Main Brand’......

 

This has been mentioned by others, but I fail to see how they've properly tackled that one.

The "main range" is still littered with lots of low detail and ancient tooled models that should clearly have been moved to the RailRoad range some time ago.

 

 

I know we all think we can run Hornby better than SK......

 

No disrespect, but where on Earth did you get the notion that Hornby was run by SK (no disrespect for him intended either)?

 

 

.

[Roy P]

I imagine that even with "clever design" the smoke deflectors would have to be produced as a separate item. Thus in theory it would be possible to make one with separate handrails for the main range if Hornby wanted to. The question is how much extra cost would that represent in fitting the handrails? On the face of it not much but as Tesco were famous for saying "Every little helps" and the less assembly time each model takes as well as the less parts required, the grater the savings at the end of the production run and hence a lower price when it comes to market.

And the proof of the pudding etc.

It will come down to Hornby making the decision where to draw the line regarding what specific details are included or omitted. And individuals to decide if Hornby's analysis is correct.

RP

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Fish vans. That's going to save me a lot of kitbuilding. Those of us with lots of Doncaster wide firebox power can have fun rattling thirty along at speed; pretty please for Mr Kohler, lots of number changes.

 

Let's wait and see what 'design clever' means. Hopefully they get the balance right so that what adds to exterior appearance in motion - glazing, separate handrails - is retained, and the expensive multiple part detail that cannot be seen - moving vents, cab interiors fully decorated - are dropped.

[TRAILRAGE]

Where are you getting Bachmann Mk1s for a tenner? I know a couple of the more modern liveries are on sale a lot but I've never seen any that cheap.

 

When I stumbled across a leak that mentioned Mk1s I was a bit disappointed and shared your view but I am all in favour of these now that I know they are in the Railroad range.

 

I don't see Bachmann updating their Mk1s any time soon. I've never heard any complaints about their quality so far and have no qualms myself, other than the change in southern region green livery. I'm very interested to see the quality of the new Mk1s. There must be a considerable improvement if it is worth re-tooling them, and only for a few more quid than the old ones.

MODELZONE in Reading had the BR Southern green and RES GUV's for a tenner each a month or so ago other than that never seen any other at that price

[hammy]

I have to congratulate Hornby some very intresting things announced I have no need for the new sentinel but may have to buy one purely for the hell of it (I do like little shunters). not much this year for the modern image era but I can't complain we have had it good for the past few years although the arriva blue 67 is tempting Happy Christmas to all at Hornby and good job Andy the sites worked faultlesly

 

One brief question is Bittern still being produced as the twin temder green version in last years catalouge

[Ron Ron Ron]

The Sentinal 4 wheel shunter is different. ........ Wonder if it has lights and room for DCC and DCC sound? i.e. is the standard as high as the Class 08 / 09?

 

From what's been published and said so far. It appears it will be DCC fitted; although the Hornby pdf confuses the issue by stating DCC Ready Fitted ???????

 

As high a standard as the Class 08/09 ?

Very unlikely considering that this is also a "Design Clever" product, with the expected molded detail.

I fear for the handrails and the Axle Box and undercarriage area, where I think we'll only get a crude molding.

After all, what do you expect for £55 from Hornby?

 

By all accounts it's customary at the annual product launch and other press open days, for Hornby to show some finished or pre-production models to those present.

Can anyone shed light on whether such a preview of the Sentinel was made available; or can anyone shed light on any other detail about this model.

It would be a great shame if expectations have been set too high, only for the finished article to be little more than Smokey Joe in a diesel body.

 

I don't want to sound unduly pessimistic, but there is a clearly stated intention to reduce the detail quality of forthcoming models.

 

 

.

[TRAILRAGE]

Thank you very much Hornby.

What a choice very diverce if what surprising and intersting. I can understand why Hornby are trying to keep costs down and still make a profit beleive me I hear people moan about it everyday in my job as a cycle mechanic at a VERY RESPECTED cycle chain.I personally am a WCML man but bought the Bachmann 4-CEP because of 2 reasons 1 it looked good and 2 if people dont buy the models manufacturers WILL NOT risk producing something different.Since then Ive bought 2 2-EPB's and have a third under construction using the spare blue bodies with replica chassis and both Replica and Bachmann MLV'S. I also have a Kernow Thumper on order all of which have moulded vents and roof conduit runs but if people were that bothered none of these would have sold so not to be rude but lets not get into criticising models that we havent even seen in the flesh and reserve judgement for when we do! I even have a Hornby NSE 4-VEP! Sure it has its faults but I couldnt do a better build and paint job from a kit (and yes I have tried!) But with some carefull work it can be made to look better.

I for one cannot wait for some of these lovely models to hit the shops put me down for a 2-BIL green with either 12/ or FYE and a blue one also the BLUE SPOT FISH VAN in BR blue, LMS CCT, & SR BOGIE B in blue.(remember seeing a pair of those at Newcastle central station in 1986!)

Wallets not gonna like me much mmmmmm nors the missus!

ps

I'll have a DOG as well as its something Ive always wanted and if its a Railroad version I'll just have to do some MODELLING after all thats whats its all about.how many of you out there spent hours on a Crowline conversion on an antique tender drive model?

 

I have a question for MR Simon Kohler when are the revised 4-vep partitions going to be availiable as I'm sure I'm not the only one waiting fore these

 

As for the Star I would rather buy from Steam and the money go to them but thats a personell thing

 

HAPPY CHRIMBO EVERYBODY AND HAPPY MODELLING

[TheDieselEngine]

I don't think i've ever been this excited about Hornby's next year new releases ever with the Cock O'The North, The Titfield Thunderbolt, Duke Of Gloucester + The Stars & Sentinels. For me this is Hornby's best year in a long time.

 

Mind you looking at the two railroad 0-4-0 tanks has all but convinced me that someone at Hornby is a fan of the band Transatlantic.

[ikks]

Hi All,

Very interesting and innovative list Mr Kohler, definitely in for a DOG(as "in service" condition)...do we know when that becomes available? I can't find reference to a release date. The P2 might find a home here too even if it is way out of my normal scope. As for future suggestions, improvement to the Duchess(front end) and Princess(both ends) would be most welcome.

 

Rgds..........Mike

[Ozexpatriate]

Providing modellers with highly detailed models at barely break-even prices is not conducive to Hornby's long-term health (furthermore, should Hornby super detail all new models, given the almost wilful contrariness [some may say pig-headedness] of UK outline modellers as a species, there would still be those who would complain about "breakable/unecessary" details).

 

With their 2013 range and their "design clever" approach, Hornby has chosen a strategy that it believes will see it through a difficult recessionary period in reasonably good corporate health. I think, given the peculiarities of UK outline modelling, this is a reasonable strategy.

 

If you want another strategy from Hornby and one that provides super detail on all models? Be willing and prepared to pay for it...

Indeed so.

 

Back in the 42xx thread Gerald Henriksen posted a very informative newsletter from the President of Rapido Trains covering a recent trip to see progress on Rapido's "Canadian" train.

 

See the end of this newsletter http://www.rapidotra...pidonews39.html

A couple of things really struck me about this newsletter:

1. The two photos of the reject bins full of scrap models
   
2. A photo of the QA workers with rework items tagged with many white dots.
   

This really illustrated to me just how expensive the high-spec models are to produce - not just in terms of initial assembly labour but the cost of scrap and rework. A simpler assembly means less scrap, less rework and dramatically lower overall cost.

 

I suspect that this is a big driver in the 'design clever' process.

[Gerald Henriksen]

Quite frankly, if Hornby - based on their research and analysis of how and where their profit is made - has concluded that if their customers were given choice between high fidelity models with extra added details that costs £££££ and a low fidelity model with many moulded details that costs ££, their customers would choose the latter; can you blame them for going the "cheap and cheerful" route?

 

The problem is Hornby has refused to make that decision, and instead is trying to have it both ways.

 

If Hornby had just announced that their new products would all be in the Railroad range to address what their customers want that would be fine.

 

But they haven't, and instead they are trying to sell the same model in both their Railroad and Main ranges, and try to justify charging the extra £40 for the Main version with some extra detail parts while still having the cheap moulded on details, cheaper motor, etc. In other words, Hornby want you to pay Main range prices for a model that clearly doesn't belong in the Main range and justify it by calling it "design clever".

 

Of course this isn't new, Hornby have in the past demonstrated the inability to decide what they want a model to be when they put toy/gimmicky opening doors and vents on what was supposed to be a detailed model.

[Ozexpatriate]

Well, that was a coincidence if ever I saw one!

[Cleefy]

Although it's shamelessly rule #1 for me, I voted for the P2 in the wishlist poll way back when. Whether said poll influenced Hornby or not I've no idea, but regardless I've put my money where my mouth is and pre-ordered one

 

Another temptation (and one more in keeping with my main area of interest) is the large logo class 56, but I'm a tad surprised it has a higher RRP than the P2. Then again I know nothing of the intricacies of toy train manufacturing...

 

Whilst those are the only things that immediately jump out at me as potential wallet-openers, I have to say I'm impressed with what's been announced. I was expecting little more than reliveries of existing models and a mopping up of 2012 items that are MIA, so to see that amount of new stuff is certainly a positive sign AFAIC. I can see why the 'design clever' concept has been met with cynicism from some quarters, but the world has moved on from the moulded trains of my youth so personally I'm intrigued to see what it'll deliver.

 

Here's hoping 2013 is good for both Hornby and us punters

[Crewlisle]

Well done Hornby; a P2 and what I have wanted for many years to complete my WCML loco stud, Duke of Gloucester. Simon Kohler, you should be a world class poker player! At major exhibitions over the last 2 years I have spoken to you and asked about a DoG saying the Britannia chassis is OK (apart from the Caprotti valve gear) but would require a new loco body moulding. The Britannia tender chassis is OK and would only need a new body. And all you did was give a knowing smile.

 

Only 3 weeks ago at the NEC when I jokingly said, "Duke of Gloucester next year?" you just smiled as if to say "You must be joking". Thankyou Hornby for taking this gamble with two locos at the top of 'Modeller's Wish Lists'. Simon, if I decide to take up poker as a hobby will you be my partner?

[Ozexpatriate]

In case anyone's really bored and wants a giggle, here's last year's 2012 Hornby speculation thread. There's lots of P2, DOG, Star and 2BIL froth there.

 

Put to rest at last.

[Multiple identity account 2]

Hey,

everyone has been talking about a link to a PDF. Can someone provide it for me? Can't find it...guess I missed it. Or is it the link Andy provided in post #1 to the MRL website?

 

Guess there's only one Class 67 this year. I thought another EWS version would come along.

[Multiple identity account 2]

Doesn't the blue on the AWT Class 67 look a tad bit lighter? Atleast in the picture...

[trisonic]

'Design Clever' sounds remarkedbly like value engineering - I'll be interested to see how turns out.

 

 

 

That used to be the case here at one point but thankfully Bachmann have learnt from past experiences.

 

 

 

 

 

It's like a different company over here! I suppose it is but you know what I mean,,,, Jim S-W is right, if they could get the basic shape 100% accurate then that's 99% of the real issues over with...

 

Cheers, Pete.

[Guest Belgian]

It's interesting to see The Stationmaster's prediction last year about the 2-BIL: he was bang on except for the year: 'I will stick with what is now becoming my hoary chestnut and go for the 2BIL although perhaps not too hi-fi now as it might have been.'

 

I think in general that Hornby have done extremely well this year with their announcements, judging from the (admittedly small sample) level of comments on this thread: it seems that I am in a tiny minority in questioning some of their decisions and the outlook.

 

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all and sundry, but especially Hornby.

 

JE

[MarkSG]

Some nice things in there, certainly. Nothing on the loco front that will suit what I'm building (my wallet breathes a sigh of relief!), but the rolling stock additions have some gems. The LMS/BR CCT has gone straight onto my wishlist, and it will be interesting to see how good the new Railroad MK1s are. The fish vans, too, are a useful extra option, as is the ex-SR passenger brake.

 

Despite the fact that I'm not likely to be buying one, I'm pleased to see the Sentinel 4wDM in the range. Small, cheap locos are a staple of not only the toy sector but also as the basis for conversions, kitbashing and the like. And industrial locos represent a bit of a gap in the market anyway, so it's nice to see Hornby doing something to fill it.

 

The 2-BIL looks lovely, it's almost enough to make me want to start work on a southern-based layout!

 

The P2 and "Duke of Gloucester" are interesting choices of prototype. As with, I suspect, Garrets and Blue Pullmans, there will probably be far more of them on layouts than can really be justified by their real life usage, but it makes a nice change from the more common classes.

[Richard Lee]

Three items took my eye in particular, although I am not in a position to decide whether to buy any or all of them yet.

 

The Southern Railways 2BIL looks fantastic, in my opinion. One of my problems are that my layout is set a little further west, in former LSWR territory. Also, I don't feel like installing a third rail at the moment.

 

Like a lot of pre-grouping locomotives, the LSWR M7 looks really attractive. Unfortunately, getting LSWR coaches for it would not be cheap or easy for me. At an exhibition earlier this year, I seem to remember someone selling some very nice kit-built LSWR coaches for about £100 each. Have a feeling that they might have been SR liveried rather than LSWR, though.

 

At present, I am considering whether or not to move to the dark side with regards to control. The new 'hook-your-PC-to-the-layout-to-control-the-layout' gadget looks interesting at £85 RRP, £68 pre-ordered from Hattons. Will have to keep my eyes open to read what DCC enthusiasts say about it in the coming months.